BritishV8 Forum

In an earlier post on this forum, I was looking for anyone that may have modified the MGB steering column/shaft to better improve on the split nylon & felt bushes.  Also, the 1971 indicator switch seems difficult to find should should I ever need a replacement.  So I'm thinking that modification I was planning may be a unrewarding effort.

I'm now thinking Flaming River columns or any other column manufacturer.  Anyone have any experience with this?  

I thought my steering was complete as of last week.  All connections were made including a new aluminum intermediate steering shaft made by Ted at Fast Cars last week.  It would be a shame to have to make another shaft, and or anything else now that I'm thinking new column.

Chime in with your thoughts.

Arthur

EDIT:  My MGB steering column is 1962 to 1967 it has turn, headlight flash & horn functions only.

Arthur,

I read somewhere  about a simple mod to an MGB steering column using bearings to replace the nylon & felt system. I'll try to dig it up for you.

Arthur,
      You might want to contact John Twist at University Motors - I know he has rebuilt many MG steering columns and also has a phone in chat line you can ask for technical assistance.
http://www.universitymotorsltd.com/

Arthur, if you haven't made contact with Gerry Masterman yet I suggest you do. He rebuilds MG columns and manufactures Delrin bushing for replacements. He's at GEM Enterprises http://www.gem-enterprises.net/index.html

Gerry is a regular over at the MG Experience forum. Comes highly regarded. I'm not real clear on exactly what years he makes the bushings for.

I couldn't find the info on the roller bearings for the steering column. It may have been for a T-Series. I lurk in those forums, as well since I have a long term TF project.

Floyd,

Thanks for looking for the Steering column bush article.  Making and installing the bushes would be no problem.  I have the MDS Nylon and a lathe.  The turn signal switch seems to be difficult to find and it is probably the motivating factor that will make me switch to a modern steering column.

If anyone knows of a turn signal switch that can be adapted to the non-collapsible column, let me know. I would take that option.  I don't really want the extra work of replacing the column.  I will have to make new custom upper and lower mounts, cut the upper brackets off the car and make new. And my new 3/4" x 48 " spline X 27" long intermediate aluminum steering shaft, that Ted just made for me, may have to be remade if I go the new column route.

Thanks Graham & Bill for the University motors & Gem leads.  I have sent an email to John & Gerry to see if they have a replacement Turn Signal switch.

Regards,

Arthur

You might also look at early Triumph parts. Seems they were similar.

Jim

Jim, I looked at the Triumph turn signal switch on Moss for the TR4/A, TR250/TR6 and Spitfire MKIV-1500.  All use the same #560-080 and they all look like the MGB part.  I have sent an email to Moss to ask if it fits the MGB.

If anyone else knows the answer please comment.

Thanks,

Arthur

Arthur, I hope they will fit. I think they will, the main difference being the addition of a dip switch on the MG model, which is the same for the early MGB and Midget.

Arthur,

Indicator/ turn signal switches seem to be available in the UK for all years and models so would have thought Moss or others would have them in the US.

Kevin.

Kevin,

Moss motors is looking into it.  I also think I have a 1962 to 1967 MGB column and I think I have found a new replacement indicator switch from another vendor.  I'll find out tomorrow if they have one in stock.

Arthur

Arthur, a lot of Cobra's used early VW Beetle turn signal switches,63-66 I think. You would have to add a floor dimmer switch for your headlights.

I think you will find it is not hard to get the indicator switch,it is common to Austin A40 Farina,early Mini,Midget,Spitfire ,Triumph 2000, Morris Minor and most BL cars of the period

Thank you everyone!

I have found the switch and all that remains for me to do now is to make and install upper and lower bearings in the column.

I my application and perhaps in V8 MG applications, the upper split bush could be problematic when an intermediate steering shaft is used.  The two universal joints will allow the steering wheel to be pushed and pulled in and out slightly. In my case I pulled the wheel out, I guess 1/4", and when I pushed it in again it crushed the little copper finger contact for the horn.

When the wheel was pushed back in, the turn signal cancelling pin made it's way into split of the upper nylon bush.  I did not know this had happened and when I turned the wheel it mangled the bush.  After a few turns left and right and pulling on the wheel in and out when I discovered the extra movement.  On removing the switch/column cover to check, I found that I had totally mangled the switch Contact too.

The new upper bush will not have a split. It will have a flange that the cancelling pin will ride against preventing the wheel from being pushed in.  The bottom bush will also have a flanged bush and a locking collar on the steering shaft will prevent the wheel from being pulled back out.  

Problem solved!

Arthur

Arthur, see if you can find a suitable washer to put between the pin and the bushing to protect the thrust surface. A thin hardened washer might be best if you can find one but a thicker soft one should be OK too.

Jim

Jim,

I had considered a hardened thrust washer for this contact point.  I have some left over from I was experementing with needle thrust washers for the MGB kingpin.  I plan on removing sharp edges and polishing the turn signal cancelling pin where it makes contact with the MDS-Nylon bush flange, so I felt that the steel washer would not be needed as there is no great load on this surface.

Do you still think the steel washer is necessary?

Arthur

Well if you put one in it'd be near impossible to damage the bushing, plus it'd spread the load out beyond a point contact and provide a second sliding surface. I think I'd add one, yes.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the insistance on using the thrust washer.  As part of the make it better thinkers, would you upgrade to a needle thrust bearing with two hardend washers?  I just happen to have one that may fit.  

Arthur

If you were going to needle bearings rather than a nylon bushing then yes that would be a good idea. As it is, there isn't a lot to be gained from it but it isn't going to hurt.

Jim

Sounds like overkill, to me. Then again, if you have one that fits in place of the bushing, that would be called a "timesaver" since you wouldn't have to make the bushing.  

I'm not very familiar with the MG steering columns or their bushings, but when I designed the custom steering column for my car I used Garlock DU teflon-lined flanged bushings instead of needle bearings. They're cheap (at about $2 each), very easy to work with, and maintenance free. I think they're more durable than nylon. If you're curious, they're shown on page 24 of this catalog. (Note: it's a sixty page PDF, so it might take a minute to download) http://www.ggbearings.com/pdf/literature/manuals/US-Format/DU-us.pdf

Curtis,

Thanks for the tips and the great bearing resource. I will measure, and see if I can buy the right size.  Save me time to machine them.  I'm waiting for my turn switch to arrive before I do any work on it.

I wasn't planning on using needle roller bearings in the column.  I'm going to machine flanged bearings from MDS-Nylon. The Needle thrust washer is for the cancel pin rub contact point on the MDS bearing flange.  Yes I'ts OVERkill I know, but If I had one that fit perfectly?

Arthur

Nigel,

You must be speaking of MKII A40 Farinas because my 1959 has a dash switch common to Bugeye (Frogeye) and MKII Sprite.

All this talk of switches has made me decide to go study the current market issues with the switches. Interesting ideas guys.


-BMC.

Jim,

The bore on the column was 1.152" and was slightly out of round. The shaft diameter at the upper bearing was 0.872" Only 6:" were machined. The balance of the shaft was mill finish 7/8" diameter.

The simple approach would be to pull out and toss the MGB split nylon bush at the top of the column. Machine a flanged bush that will press fit into the column and install a hardened thrust washer on which the turn signal canceling pin will ride.  Install a thrust washer and shaft collar on the bottom of the steering shaft and column.  Now the shaft cannot be pushed in as the upper thrust washer prevents that. It also cannot be pulled out as the shaft collar restricts that movement.

I decided to take this opportunity to re-engineer my column further by machining a new stainless steel column tube with flanged bushes 1 3/4" long at each end.  The entire length of steering shaft also had to machined too and made slightly smaller to easily slide through the new top bush.  I may add grease nipples to lube the bushes.  

Arthur

You'd have thought they'd just have used TGP shafting. Not much difference in cost. Probably less that the machining time to turn one end.

The closest needle bearing is 7/8 x 1-1/8, different lengths available up to 1". There's also a 7/8 x 1-3/16 and 13/16 x 1-1/8. It has a drawn cup, that would be the least expensive. Naturally it''s possible to go with a full ground inner and outer race, but of course making the package larger and more expensive. The rest of the steering mechanism probably does not justify it. The ones above would be the best compromise, though eventually the needles would wear into the shaft.

Sizes for the full brodie are going to run .875 on the ID and 1.625 on the OD. That, your thrust bearings and your stainless tubing would make a fine steering column.

Jim