BritishV8 Forum

Looks like I will be checking into this further myself.  The Haggerty Insurance Company is a1.5 hr drive from my house I may go there and ask, the next time I get home.  I have been planning on bringing my B out here wher I am working but this will have to be cleared up first!!!

As it relates to item #5, that is no problem for me as I do not use it at all for that type of activity. In the past I have occasionally taken it for a pleasure drive, but basically I drive it to the V8 show and a few other British car shows. Other than the British V8 show, I do not put more than 600 miles a year on the car. I am really curious why my agent would say item #4 (the occasional pleasure drive) was ok to do if in fact it is questionable. So, I have left him a phone message asking for a sit down for him to show me in writing where it specifically states that the occasional pleasure drive is ok. Until then, I am only going to drive it to the shows. I agree with Dan and Rob that in these matters it is always better to error on the side of caution. One miscue could screw up a person financially for a lifetime.
Rob, I'm glad you started this thread on a subject that really needs to be discussed. Have you made a decision on any of the options that posted?

Mike, I think the reason the 30-40 mile drive is ok is because they allow occasional "hobby" use & consider a drive on a nice day to be consistent with that.  It's also probably lower risk too because you are not likely to leave the car unattended for any length of time.  A trip to the grocery store or to the office starts to look more like using the car as a daily driver or backup to your daily driver & typically will result in the car being left unattended which results in higher risk of it being stolen.  

As for which one I'm going to go with, I haven't decided.  Of the collectors plans, I like American Collectors because it seems a bit more flexible, has a higher mileage limit, & is pretty well known.  But, I didn't get a reply to my mail (which was a reply to their mail to me with the quote) requesting a copy of the language associated with that part of the policy.  I'll have to call them tomorrow to see if I can get it.  If it's consistent with what the phone agent told me I'll be choosing between them & State Farm.  I'd prefer State Farm, even with the lower valuation because of the total flexibility of use.  But, I'm concerned that an accident estimated at $7k or even less would total the car (typically 50% or more of the value = totaled & high end value was about $15k when I looked it up).  Other than potentially having to deal with a salvage title, I''m not sure what the downside of that would be.  Most of the value is in the parts rather than the body shell [that's just where the time went] so if there are not significant negative repracussions to a salvage title, State Farm may still be the way to go.  Anyone know the ins & outs of registering & insuring a car with a salvage title?

B's are still plentiful, so it should be no problem to find a donor car with a good title if that situation would present itself. A more rare car might be a problem, but my TR4A was "totalled" according to its value assigned by the insurance of the guy that hit me several years ago and they let me keep the car without changing the title for about $800.  I got a parts car with no title and used the front clip from it to make the rebuild.  

What about the occasional (maybe frequent) test drives?  Are they covered?

Rob, if you should decide to go with State Farm, check on having an agreed on value.
I have both of my Classic cars insured with and agreed on value of 20K and each of them still have a cost (Full Coverage) of under $200.00 per year.

Merv

Merv, were you able to do agreed value thru State Farm?  I called them today & the agent I spoke with didn't think that was an option.  She's supposed to be calling their underwriting & claims groups for me on Monday & then get back to me with more info... if you have agreed value thru them & you don't mind, PM me your agent's contact info so I have have her connect with him/her to find out how.

I did connect with American Collectors & they are looking better...

    Good morning Mr. Ficalora,
   
    Attached is the current policy verbiage for the usage of the freedom tier. I hope this is
    helpful in your decision. If you have a specific concern or usages in mind please note that
    we do make exceptions on a case by case basis.

    "Applicants who have collector cars but on occasion use
    them outside of our normal parameters (e.g.; trips to work, shopping, run errands.)

I have to call back to ensure there isn't additional wording defining "occasional" that effectively limits it beyond the 6000 mile/yr limit.  But, I also found out they are getting ready to announce a new program with even more flexibility and no mileage limits.  I wouldn't count on that till it's real because I found a press announcement about it from a 18 months ago on their web site that indicated it is already available & according to the lady I talked with, it isn't yet (at least not in TX).  But at least they seem to be headed in that direction.

Rob,

State Farm classic and collector car policy rider 6171BR, section 2 states:

"If loss is to your car, item 1.b.(1) is changed to read:

You and we agree that the actual value of your car is the vehicle value shown on the declarations page unless...."

The "unless" goea on to cover the case where the car has been neglected or abused or otherwise damaged before the event but after the value was agreed to.

This should help your agent find the info for you.

Dan.

excellent, thanks Dan.

Ok, I've had a few conversations with my local State Farm rep and with Merv's rep in IL.  Without seeing the contract language I don't know for sure, but based on discussion with both State Farm reps, it seems pretty clear the State Farm agreed value policy is only available as an ammendment to their collector & antique car policy which carries the typical hobby use only type langauge -- thereby precluding regular or semi-regular use such as driving to work or on errands not related to the car or the hobby.

Given that, I'm going to go with the American Collectors policy.  It seems to be the most flexible and the agent (at the company itself) indicated they are nearing announcement of an enhanced program that would have no usage restrictions* so looks like it'll even get better over time.

*Note, I'm still assuming "no usage restrictions" will exclude track type use.

re:  *Note, I'm still assuming "no usage restrictions" will exclude track type use.

That is a pretty valid assumption, Rob.

The October issue of Street Rodder magazine has the first of a two-part article on collector car insurance. Not all that informative, but worth a browse-thru at the magazine rack.

I use Condon& Scully and they have been great to deal with. I started the car in gear and it went out of the garage and hit another garage and they covered all the damages. Now the paint and body shop did'nt live up to there end of the deal and shafted me on finishing the car.

Jerry,

That's a real bummer, but glad to hear the insurance came through OK. That's good to remember when I go to renew my insurance.

Makes me feel a bit less paranoid, though. I wired my starter through the neutral safety switch so It won't start unless it's in neutral.

I've had extensive experience in this area.  

It has always been my understanding that most policies allow for 'other occasional use' for collector cars.

I have usually preferred to go with J.C. Taylor.  But right now I have a problem with them - they want me to REMOVE THE ROLL BAR in my V-8 Midget before they will cover it!  Yet at a recent meet, one of their executives suggested that I simply remove the bolted in roll bar, then take some pics of the car to send to them, and then reinstall it!  Huh?

I've had problems with Condon-Skelly in the past and, although the problem was caused more by the agent than by them, I wouldn't ever use them again.  

Anyway, J.C. Taylor beats them all in rates.

One other experience to pass on - about thirty years ago, one of my collector cars (a '53 Pontiac Hearse that was covered by J.C. Taylor) was totalled by a drunk driver in a Ford Van at around midnight in a head-on collision, a hit and run accident that happened perhaps three miles from my house.  I told them that I had been working on the car and was taking it for a test drive through the neighborhood which was bs - I was on my way home from seeing a movie with some friends.

I got an estimate of damage and J.C. Taylor cut me a check for this amount, but before they could send it out, the cops caught the bastage and his insurance paid for the damage. So I called my Taylor agent and declined the check but thanked them for their service.  This experience left a lot of warm and fuzzy feelings for dealing with this company...

B.D., I hear you & I think folks can get away with a lot. But, I'm more interested in what the letter of the contract says.  Consider if the hit & run was more than a few miles -- maybe in the parking lot while you were at the movie -- and the impact from your car injured someone -- long shot maybe, but the liability cases from long shots are what cause people to lose their homes, retirement accounts, etc.

Retirement accounts?  Don't think so, Rob. Get your drift, though.

Guys, several of you are contributors to the MGB-Roadmaster project, which is on track to be completed in time for next year's V8 meet. Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could take turns driving it around the neighborhood? Now it is obvious to me that any one of you are far more expert on the topic of insurance than I am, but I'm quite convinced that what with the fact that business fleets, rental cars and such are able to obtain insurance that somewhere out there is a policy which will allow us to do just that. I'm not the person to be working on that part of the problem. There are some things I do well and some that I do poorly, this is in the second category, and I don't think you want me doing this for a whole bunch of really good reasons. Somebody else is going to have to step up, maybe a bunch of somebodies.

So what do you say? Can you find us that policy?

JB

refresh my memory Jim, how was the group set up?  Was it set up as a non-profit org?  LLC?  I'll volunteer to get the insurance info but will need to know if the car will be registered under a person's name or?

"Was it set up as a non-profit org? LLC?"

Yes.

Rob, Carl is correct. The organization,"British American Deviant Automotive Sports-car Society, LLC is registered in the state of Kentucky as a non-profit organization or NLC. (B.A.D.A.S.S.,LLC for short) Probably the extension on the name should be corrected to reflect the non-profit status but I've not spent enough time on it to see how to do that properly. Maybe over the winter I can do that.

The organization is a separate legal entity in and of itself, and the car is titled in the name of the organization.

Of the several possible options out there, some we might check into could include such things as fleet insurance, rental properties, and the posting of a bond. A creative agent should be able to come up with others. I see no reason for us to consider ourselves to be bound by traditional concepts as long as we achieve the goals of allowing our contributors to drive the car and limiting liabilities in the event of a mishap. The risks should be much lower than those faced by a car rental agency. Consider, each of our contributors, possibly without exception, are low risk policy owners with similar cars. With the exception of annual meets, only one specific contributor will be driving and in possession of the car at any given time, and each possessor is duty bound to confirm the integrity of the car both upon taking and delivering the car, the equivalent of a dozen safety inspections per year. We can easily provide the agency with a chain of possession in advance so that they can confirm the stats of each member in a given year's rotation schedule. We can require that the car be delivered back to the organization at each year's annual meet for an annual inspection, and we can limit the uses of the car at the annual meet to autocrosses and meet related driving by specific members if needed.

JB

Spoken as a true attorney, Boss!

When I had my car insured with Grundy, the policy spelled out very clearly in large letters what the limitations on usage were. I just went through my collector car insurance policy with State Farm with a fine toothed comb, looking for the paragraph that listed these restrictions, and couldn't find any. Called my agent and she confirmed that there aren't any, just that the car can't be a "primary use" vehicle. The only official statement of that is on the renewal form, where it lists the "agreed" value. It simply states:

"Ordinary us of vehicle....
Limited use antique/classic"

Yahoo!  I'm going to drive that baby now. It still won't be a daily driver, but it will get a lot more use.

Dan:
I've had all my cars and motorcycles insured with State Farm (Canada) for thirty plus years.  When I approached my agent to insure my MGB v8 conversion I was told that they would not insure it as it was not a stock vehicle.

great news Dan - enjoy the new found freedom!

Phil,

When I insured mine, I had to send the agent a bunch of pictures of the car and a detailed written description of the modifications (they had a standard form to fill out for that). You might want to try them again, maybe they've changed thier policy recently. Or, perhaps, it's just the difference between the Canadian SF and the American SF. Or maybe Canadian law has something to do with it.