LS4

[MGBV8]

I take it no one thinks that a Belted Alternator/Starter could be coaxed into cranking this engine.

[Dan B]

I wondered about that one too, Carl

[BlownMGB-V8]

Interesting idea, and it leads to others.
We had a tractor with a starter/generator. It wasn't particularly good but it worked and even now nearly 30 years later it is in use on Matthew's old go cart where it starts an old Wisconsin engine. Based on that application, look at the speed reduction. To get enough torque to crank over the engine reliably a standard starter uses a reduction of 15:1 or greater. Now multiply by operating speed and 6000 rpm becomes 90,000 rpm. Not many starter motors are going to survive that speed, so better technology is needed.

However, this newer technology already exists in the newer hybrid vehicles in the form of a flywheel motor/generator which can both run the transmission and/or start the engine. I have not seen one yet but here is a link:

http://www.kwikwap.co.za/electrodiesel/docs/DC%20Integrated%20Flywheel%20Generator.pdf

A multi-disc clutch would be most suitable with this arrangement to get adequate capacity in a package that fits inside the rotor.
In the future we will be seeing more and more of these as hybrid vehicles become more common and the manufacturers recognize the advantages of eliminating wear prone mechanical parts. It may currently be possible to find parts from an existing vehicle that could be used, eliminating the alternator in the process. Perhaps one of the larger hybrids.

Jim

[MGBV8]

We need some CPR here.  Where did everybody go?  This was one of my fav threads!

[danmas]

We need some CPR here. Where did everybody go? This was one of my fav threads!

Carl,

They probably went here:  http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/main.asp

PS: are you coming to the April Fool's Bash on the 30th?

[MGBV8]

Ha! Such blasphemy! This is a Chevy thread.

I would love to be there Dan, but it is Baseball season. My daughter, Piper, has decided to play a 9th season of Little League, so I'm on the hook to help coach the team again (my 13th year).  We will not be practicing during Spring Break, so there is a chance.

[MGBV8]

Just discovered that a LS engine will fit nicely in an Infiniti G35.  Hmmm......

[Dan B]

I went to pick up one of these on Monday but didn't. It was supposed to only have 8,000 miles on it but was in a shed at the yard where it had been since 07. Maybe I should have made a low offer.

[roverman]

Dan and clan, unless the ad specifically states, "no low ballers", I almost always do. My experience is most sellers start out asking considerably more, than they will ultimately accept. It will hurt their feelings, even more, if you don't make a counter offer, and just walk. I just bought a "track day car", that had been free-falling, pricewise on craigslist, for some time. I made a 30% lower offer, and settled on 28%.  I suspect these LS series motors, will find a lot of future homes, in lbc's.  Good Luck, roverman.

[Scott Costanzo]

No lack of enthusiasm for this here. I've been really busy with work and getting my fender, hood and valence ready to paint...Omaha is only 3 months away!

Although I'm not going to go this route, I was playing around with the Northstar starter measurements I took and sort of mocked things up like this trying to see how it might fit just for general information.



I tried to model the diameter of the starter body which is 3" and the larger 3 1/4" diameter of the nose. Also cut a 1" disk which is the diameter of the starter gear on an old V6 FWD starter I have laying around. This is very rough so if it matters to you, you should measure it yourself but with the fixturing boss removed, the oil pan bolt castings on the block come into play in how close the starter can be moved to the flywheel. I don't see how a starter with a 3" diameter body could work with a 142 tooth flywheel. It looks like the only hope would be a 148 tooth flywheel and even then it would be very close.

I hope to get a mini-starter here very soon. I'll post some pictures when I do.

Regards

Scott

[MGBV8]

Omaha is only 3 months away!

Oh crap!  I haven't touched my car since last fall & now it's time for Little League!

[MGBV8]

Maybe I should have made a low offer.

Yep. Maybe go back in a week or so, Dan.

The 215 I've been abusing for the last 12 years spent 15 years in a closet, rebuilt & waiting for me to come buy it for $600.

[mgb260]

Scott, The video to me, looks like  you can bolt the mini starter to a plate and use a shim as your template.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Here is a photo of the Buick mini starter that we used on the MG-Roadmaster and the 340 SBB. It also should fit the Buick V6 and I think the typical application at the parts store is SBC.



The body right behind the mounting bolts measures 2-15/16" diameter. The bolt boss on the inside brings that out to 3-1/8", so it sticks out 3/16" more on that side. Which means we'd need 1-19/32" from the pinion centerline to the side of the block. More measuring would be needed to see if the gears mesh but I think this is a great candidate if you are willing to weld and build up a pad on the block flange then drill and tap mounting holes.

Jim

[Scott Costanzo]

My mini starter showed up this week. I'll try to get some pictures and measurements posted tomorrow. It looks really promising.

[MGBV8]

Looking forward to seeing those pics!

[BlownMGB-V8]

The one at the bottom of page 7 costs a little over $100, depending on where you buy it.

Jim

[mgb260]

Scott, Did you get a flexplate or flywheel too?

[Scott Costanzo]

OK, I guess I'll start with the final picture first and explain things later. Bottom line, I'm confident enough that it will work that my next step will be to get a flywheel.



Here is the starter with the aluminum mounting block off. I measured this with a digital caliper but there are no guarentees. The effective diameter of the starter when placed up to the block is 2.59" and the bottom of the tooth (bottom land?) to the edge of the starter housing is ~.9". The length of the extension on the right is about 1.12". This is important in relation to the fixturing boss and the oil pan bolt bosses.



Jim N., I don't have a flywheel yet as I was waiting to get an idea of what size I would need. Probably a good thing. This next picture shows roughly how a 142 tooth might line up. I have a Jeep 4.0 flywheel laying around that is supposed to have the same pitch as the GM flywheels so i traced the pattern and then cut them on my cardboard flywheel mock-up at the 142 and 148 tooth diameters. I know this is very rough but I wanted some idea of what I'm dealing with before spending what I think is going to be a significant amount on a flywheel. Although a 142 tooth might work, and I was really hoping it would for a number of reasons, I don't think I'm going to gamble that it will. I'll be using a 148 tooth, which is what the first picture is depicting. I believe it will give me more options going forward.



This final shot shows what it will look like on the block. Of course I'm not sure yet how far off the block the flywheel/ring gear will be but for sure the starter will be more forward, toward the front of the engine that this picture shows. It also looks like only part of the fixturing boss will need to go. I also think that supporting the starter at the front will be needed. I saw where someone extended his motor mount and used a big muffler clamp to do this...looked like a good idea.



I'm quite confident if someone were to use a plate across the bellhousing mounting surface, as Jim N. was suggesting, that this starter would work well.

It will be quite a while before I get the flywheel, I hope before Omaha but no promises. If I wasn't married, not that I don't want to be, it would be here next week.

Regards

Scott

[mgb260]

Scott, looks good! 88-93 S-10 2.8 V6 flywheel is zero balance and 148 tooth. Probably best choice for not only more room for the starter but also all the RWD bellhousing options with the starter on passenger side.

[MGBV8]

What about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PERFECTION-CLUTCH-FLYWHEEL-88-93-CHEVY-S10-2-8L-/320867139494?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab52bffa6&vxp=mtr

[BlownMGB-V8]

Looks pretty good, will the 148 require the bellhousing flange on the engine to be cut away for clearance on the two top sides?

Jim

[mgb260]

Jim B, Same bellhousing pattern. RWD S10 and Camaro 148 tooth flywheel are slightly larger diameter(aproximately1/2") than FWD/2.2 142 tooth flywheel or stock LS4 flexplate. Carl, good find on the flywheel!

[MGBV8]

Will that work? Y'all were talking about the flywheel needing some offset because of the shorter crank?

Of course, a regular length LS crank can be swapped in. Changes things in the front ancillaries, though.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Scott's cardboard mockup on pages 3 and 5 seemed to indicate that some clearancing might be necessary. Doesn't look like enough to be a problem but the edge of the ring gear could be exposed in a finger accessible area. If so, a small cover would be a good idea.

Jim