LS4

[MGB-FV8]

I think that at this point and time in the argument, true statements are being debated on emotional perceptions and in honor of brand defending (LOL).  Truth to be told, Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler need each other in the name of competition, passion and fun.  The perception that I probably projected is that I only like Ford powered vehicles; there's nothing further from the truth, in fact I like all three manufacturers.  If God sees me through my health illness, I would love to built two vehicles powered by the LS series package; one is a LS powered Miata, and the other is a 1967-1972 Chevy pickup with a short bed.  When it comes down to classic pick up trucks, Chevy does it for me.

Jim, all I wanted to point out is the fact that Ford is still a strong player with an engine that hasn't been produced for almost ten years now but still delivers wins for NASCAR.  I often go through the MG photo galleries and I try to look for certain design and execution works of art; there's quite a few winners that stand up to that benchmark.  A particular one that I keep admiring and wish that I could measure up to it, is "Dan Master's GT"  The engine bay is second to none in look; colors, bodywork, and mechanical presentation all work in harmony to orchestrate a true "eye candy" winner.

I've been told many times that Ted is temperamental but most achieved fabricators tend to be and I must say that he can deliver a hotrod look with a very clean look; something very hard to achieve and envision.  The high road that I want to follow has tremendous challenges to overcome if my car is to get any points for clean engine bay presentation, in fact I know that I can't possibly compete, therefore I better elevate and showcase the points of interest of my project, I'll probably fall short on that too.  Just think of how many people you know that want to reduce the emission, increase drivability, performance, fuel efficiency, and all while adding creature comfort accessories to their project?!?!

Would it matter if I had an LS motor to execute my design and engineering goals? probably not.  Dan is right in saying "built what you like and can afford; it's quite a balancing act.  Since I can only afford what I can do myself then I better get my energy up, otherwise one heck of a deal could appear in the classified ads as an abandoned  "project for sale"

It is sad to say, but I started this project 8 years ago and at that time the 5.0 Liter Ford was the only hot conversion in style.  As you often also read under owner's comment, "don't wait too long as dream are meant to become reality.  Strange enough, I also originally had bought with the car a 1987 Turbo-Bird complete drive train with only 45,000 miles and ready to drop in.  It had many upgrades such as turbo and manifold, injectors, roller rockers and etc,..  Would I had stuck with that plan, I would have been enjoying the annual camaraderie meetings that I always wanted to attend.  Guess what element changed my plan?   Yes, "the good old rumbling sound of an American V-8"..........

I'm through interrupting the original discussion on this thread and I apologize for side tracking the issue at hand.

Cheers!

[mgb260]

Dan B,Yep, Isuzu Trooper and Amigo V6(also Honda Passport) 30-40LE same as Toyota A340 and Jeep AW4. Probably use the Isuzu flex plate and torque converter too. Isuzu used the GM 2.8 and 3.1 V6 and their own 3.2 and 3.5 V6 had dual bolt pattern bellhousings that might work. I have a picture of one bolted to a GM 3800 V6(same small V6 bellhousing pattern).

[mgb260]

Jacques, I agree whole heartedly with you, I like all the brands too but certain motors for certain vehicles.

[Scott Costanzo]

Thanks for the tip Jim! I had quickly looked at that flywheel but incorrectly thought it was a 148 tooth. It looks like a good candidate. The Northstar starter is in stock at Autozone and Advance Auto, I'm going to try to measure one over the weekend.

Thanks!

Scott

[BlownMGB-V8]

Jacques, I get it. 8 years is a long time but this last time it's been almost five for me if memory serves me. Well, if not that long it sure feels like it. And I too am in a somewhat similar position in that I decided to build the 340 Buick, only learning by experience that the 300 is probably a better choice and certainly easier. And now, there is this. Not that I could even consider abandoning the plan you understand, even though I suspect a simple plate would be enough to match the LS to the tranny. Well, maybe I'll just plan ahead to the LT1. (or LT4 maybe?) Or by then maybe there will be something better. I'm sure I'll be very happy with this build, and no doubt you will be thrilled with yours as well. We can never hope to have the very latest newest best thing unless money is not an object, and that's not a world I think I'd want to live in anyway, the reward is much sweeter when it requires a sacrifice.

Jim N, do you have anything showing the other side of the starter bulge for that bellhousing? Looks like Dan may want to go that way with the A650E.

Jim

[Moderator]

Will you guys indulge me by answering more newbie questions?

In this photo, if you remove the indicated bolts and the cover they evidently secure, what do you find underneath?

I thought the short answer must surely be "camshaft", but I couldn't imagine why a camshaft cover needed to be so large or why it should require four (or more) bolts.



Where did Chevy put the LS4's crank position sensor and trigger wheel?

[MGB-FV8]

Here's a nice and newly introduced accessory for the LS series fans; pretty nefty I must say.

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/new-products/concept-ones-serpentine-system-for-supercharged-ls-engines/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=concept-ones-serpentine-system-for-supercharged-ls-engines

[mgb260]

Jim B, That is the only picture I have but the starter on the Buick 3800 V6 and the Isuzu is on driver side. That is the bellhousing I need for the 4.9 to AW4 ,also a driver side starter. You know you got me to consider the passenger side now. You can notch the bellhousing out to clear the starter nose on that side and just ignore the bulge on the other side or cut and weld where you need it.

[BlownMGB-V8]

That's true. The starter could probably go on either side but for the MGB I think the passenger's side is going to be the best in most cases, even if the bell has to be cut to accommodate it. There may be a few cases where the driver's side is better but that may cause problems with the oil filter. Dan's car being a TR7 has more side clearance, therefore more room for the starter on either side so it could be done either way if the oil filter clears and there is room to change it. I do have doubts about that though. Just keeping that option open since that bellhousing has the bulge in place on that side. But really, since I do have a tig welder it isn't that much of an issue and I can move the bulge and add bosses as needed.

I do think the better approach is the way we've been going with it, because you can attach the starter with a simple bolt-on bracket. Most won't want to mess with welding.

Scott, I'd sure like to see a couple of photos of that Northstar flywheel if you think that will work.

Jim

[Greg55_99]

That 60* V6 bellhousing for the Aisin automatics is only on the 2003-2004 Isuzu Rodeo and Axiom.  They come in 2WD and 4WD.

Greg




(one image deleted by moderator because it had a watermark... )

[mgb260]

Greg, Does'nt the older 90's Isuzu using the 2.8 and 3.1 with same flexplate as 2.2 and 3100 with the 60 degree belhousing use the Aisan tranny?  Or do they use the GM tranny?  Looks like that bellhousing has the starter on the passenger side. That old picture I posted is from your classic Jeep thread. Glad to have you on board!

[Greg55_99]

Nope, that starter pocket is on the drivers side.  The Aisin automatic with the V6 appears to be only a two year deal.  Before that, the Isuzu V6 came with the GM autobox.  The 2.2 always had the Aisin tranny, but the GM based V6's (2.8/3.1) had the GM tranny.

Greg

[Scott Costanzo]

In this photo, if you remove the indicated bolts and the cover they evidently secure, what do you find underneath?

Curtis, good question, never really thought about it but here's a picture that shows. The rear crank seal  fits into the cover.

Where did Chevy put the LS4's crank position sensor and trigger wheel?

The crank position sensor is here toward the back of the block. The trigger wheel is, of course, toward the back of the crank. My engine is a 2006 so it should have the 24 tooth trigger wheel. The 2007 and later engines should have the 58 tooth.




Regards

Scott

[Scott Costanzo]

Scott, I'd sure like to see a couple of photos of that Northstar flywheel if you think that will work.

Jim B. did you mean the starter rather than the flywheel? I hope to get to a local parts store this weekend to get some measurements of one. I am curious too. I believe there is a decent chance it could work.

Regards

Scott

[MGBV8]

Scott, are you upgrading or building a second B?  I had no idea you have been researching LS stuff.

[Scott Costanzo]

Hi Carl, I'm upgrading. I spent the last couple of years researching stuff. I knew I wanted to go to an LS motor. Decided on the LS4 about a year and a half ago and have been planning since then. I'm quite a ways off from doing the conversion though. Just collecting the parts and getting the starter sorted out for now. I have a ton of work to do getting ready for Omaha.

Regards

Scott

[mgbreis]

Scott, what's your plan for headers?

[MGBV8]

Looks to me like a starter will fit right where starters are supposed to go just like God intended.  

[mgb260]

Carl, That is the best picture yet! The 3800 flywheel looks good except 8 holes instead of 6. You could plug and drill it or a small V6 flywheel but, I'm leaning more towards Jim B's idea of a cut down larger LS flywheel. Instead of attaching the ring gear to the flywheel just stack the cut down flywheel on top of the  flexplate. If the flexplate is dished it would require a spacer between and longer bolts. You would have to drill the flywheel for the pressure plate for the small V6(S10/Camaro). Spec,Ram,Zoom and Centerforce have HD pressure plates.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Carl, I wondered how long before you got to the party. :-)

Jim

[flyinlow]

I have three northstar starters off engines for another project.
 Two are on brand new engines and one has about 5,000 miles on it. I won't be using them since the engines will be mounted to a Porsche 930 transaxle.
If you need measurements or need a starter let me know.

Kevin

[mgbreis]

Below is a cut and paste of a post from another forum. Anyone wondering why I get excited about LS engines, please read the short article. 451 hp and 380lb/ft from a junk 4.8 truck motor with an upgraded top end?!? Then it gets wild.


I know this is a " Old Thread" but I just read this artical and was amazed and thought I would share it with everyone. It's from a old issue of Hot Rod mag Sept 2011. The artical was called " The Big Bang Theory" where a team of guys wanted to test just how strong Ls motors really are. Anyway long story short they pulled a 4.8L truck motor out of a junk yard. The only changes they made to the short block was to increase the top ring gap from 0.015 to 0.028. They ported the stock heads and added larger intake valves (2.0in)and upgraded the springs, changed the cam to a off the shelf 228/230 comp cam with a new set of comp hydraulic roller lifters.Then changed the stock intake and upgraded to 75lb/hr injectors and a 102 mm throttle body. naturally aspirated it put down 451hp and 380 lb ft of tq all the way out to 7000rpm.
I know thats not all that amazing but what they did next was, They added a pair of 76mm turbos a intercooler, and blow off valve. After a bunch of runs they increased the boost all the way up to 26.8pounds of boost and made 1,203 hp at the crank for 60 pulls with no damage to the stock internals.
Just thought i would share if anyone has the chance find the sept 2011 hot rod and check it out.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...g_bang_theory/

[MGBV8]

Of course, that's with an iron block. Most Silverado trucks & ALL 4.8s are iron blocks.

Jim,

I've been watching this thread & lurking on the LS forums for long time.  You know I have been talkin 'bout a wider (not quite Jim Stabe wide, though) MGB with an LS engine for years & years. My dad's Miata sitting right next to his '63 B is the main reason for wanting a wider stance. I think it started with the 6" wider MGA that showed up at the 2003 British V8 Meet in Townsend, TN, You can see it here

http://www.britishv8.org/2003-British-V8-Car-Meet.htm

Not sure I'll ever widen my car by 6", but I can definitely see an LS under the hood.  Calvin Grannis sure has stoked the fire!

[MGBV8]

That last pic has me thinking that, at least, one normal, vertical starter bolt may be doable.

Or not.




(Moderator edited post to remove watermarked photo.)

[MGBV8]

Lots of good info:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/LSPrimer/Part1/

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/LSPrimer/Part2/