4.5/4.9 Cadillac V8

[mgb260]

I looked at the Melling sleeve catalog and there are specs for the Cadillac 4.1 sleeves(Cadillac just bored them out for 4.5/4.9): Flange dia. 4.213, length 5.580. LS 1 flange dia.4.320, length 5.600(.020 longer).Correction:4.5 is bored out from 4.1 sleeve but 4.9 is shorter because they increased the crank counterweight diameter when they stroked it. 4.9 sleeve  is 5.395 long. Caddy must have 4.4" bore spacing. 4.213" outside dia. and still has space between cylinders.Those LS1(3.870 bore) sleeves might work if there is enough meat in the block for a interference fit. The step on the bottom would have to be bored down .020" deeper. That would be a straight sleeve, no O-ring or step. By the end of next week i will find out . The wrecking yard called and said my engine was in, but I have 2 more 12 hour shifts and can't pick it up until Tuesday.

[roverman]

Uhhh... Jim ? When I do the math it comes to only .020" deeper ? Is not the LS1 sleeve designed to be dry ?(metal around it ?) Good Luck, Art.

[mgb260]

Typo Roverman,fixed, thanks .Yes the LS1 sleeve is meant  to be dry, but is thicker than the stock sleeve. I was thinking, the bottom part interference fit with about 2" of block filler above that. I also read that the LS 4.8/5.3 (3.78 " bore) is thicker and can be bored out to the LS1 size.Probably same outside diameter.You might be better off using that for 3.8" bore. I just thought the factory liners would be a lot less expensive than aftermarket.

[NixVegaGT]

You could always chew the top off 20 thou. How thick do the sleeves need to be to be wet?

[mgb260]

I don't know, but thicker without the metal around them, would be more ridgid. Probably stay round better when the heads are torqued also. I thought if I have to bore it out anyway I would just go .020 deeper.

[roverman]

Clan, "Dry sleeve in a wet world", many would contend arrox..12" min. wall, but this is somewhat comparing a flyswatter to nuclear fusion. That Melling, HP. sleeve is approx 30-40% stronger than standard and reflected in price at approx. $111. ea. Lots of variables to consider here, effective compression, boost, type/coolant temp, area of sleeve un-supprted,lateral thrust, pre-ignition/detonation(a real deal breaker). I think, Nic' has a better way and time will tell.  roverman.

[mgb260]

I got my engine home. I'm too tired from 5 hours driving and we are having a heck of a windstorm. The early manifold has really small runners and looks like the old Tarantula manifold. The later one on the engine looks like the Performer dual plane with much larger ports. The oil pan is still one large sump like the later one. I think the 4.1 manifold and pan are off a 85 tranverse FWD. So the manifold still has the rear water outlet.I'll have to look at 82-84 to see if they are different.The engine was complete except no distibutor,starter,alternator or throttle body. The 4.1 intake has a TBI throttle body on it.Tomorrow I'll hang it from the cherrypicker and pressure wash it. Pictures and measurements of bore centers soon.

[roverman]

Jim. Thanks for up-date.  What if huh ??   "She took the Kaeddy-didn wanna let me ride"-John Belushi, long may he cruise.

[NixVegaGT]

Sweet! Can't wait, Jim. Should be fun.

[ChadTanner]

Hey Jim,I'm really exited about your project,I'm sure you will have ideals about things that I had never thought of.I'm sure,like me,the project is more about eccentricity and uniqueness and not really about horsepower and "going fast",obvious,because we all know,how eaiser and cheaper than can be achieved.Projects like this are allways so damn much fun!!!

     I hope you are realizing how mismatched the ports of RWD intake manifold are for 4.9 head.Of coarse,It can probably be gasket matched,however that manifold is a serious detune for the 4.9,all the porting anyone could ever do,would not make it flow anywhere close to the 4.9 manifold.That was the same problem I had with the 4.5 tbi unit,when I thought,I wanted to carb my engine,and the 4.1 RWD unit was alot worse than the 4.5.I'm sure,you must have something else(modification) planned for the RWD manifold.

    I'm looking forward to watching your progress!

      Thanks...
      Chad

[mgb260]

Chad, About all that would be left would be the port flanges. I was planning on cutting the top off and making a box type manifold with interchangeable tops like I show a few threads back.It would work as a large plenum.Mostly I wanted the front water outlet so I would'nt have such long radiator hoses like in this picture.By the way this motor is in a 4X4 Trooper with 454 TBI with 350 injecters .It has the Delta cam also.I haven't had a chance to  even look at mine yet.

[mgb260]

I'm pressure washing and tearing down the 4.9 this morning. Bore spacing measurements soon. I did find one aftermarket part for this engine:Cloyes double roller timing set for $56.

[roverman]

Hmmm, sure "looks" like sbc. pattern on cam spocket. Gear drive/belt drive anyone??

[mgb260]

Took a little longer to strip down than I figured but here are pictures so far:

[roverman]

Man, I just "dig" the way those head bolts tie-in deep in the block..into main bulk-heads perhaps?  We want LS heads onnit!roverman

[roverman]

Jim, You may want to "peep", Alan Johnson's biz, Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators in Fallbrook, C.A. He's big in Northstars, don't know bout 4.9's.  roverman.

[roverman]

Jim, You may want to "peep", Alan Johnson's biz, Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators in Fallbrook, C.A. He's big in Northstars, don't know bout 4.9's.  roverman.

[mgb260]

4.9 is uncharted territory. So far the Fiero guys are into them. I think it has potential for sports cars,street rods,sandrails,a replacement for V6's in Camaro/Firebird,S-10/S15 pickups and Blazers,Isuzu Troopers/Amigos and Jeeps also. I haven't had time to tear into mine yet with working on my days off, rebuilding my daughter's computer,etc. I did some comparison measurements with the small block Ford. About the same height,a couple inches wider, about 4" shorter. Transverse FWD motors are usually shorter.The good news is it is about 100 lbs lighter.

[mgb260]

Super Bowl today, maybe tommorow I can pull the heads. Here is 3 more pictures: 1 of homemade headers and Allante gear reduction starter, 1 of valve cover with fins ground off-do outside and be careful the 4.5 and 4.9 are magnesium  and 1 of washer method to hold sleeves in on engine stand so they won't fall out when rotated.

[mgb260]

One more pic of head with 1.94 /1.50 Chevy valves. You can see why the engine is so short. The combustion chamber is turned sideways but looks a lot like Vortec heads.Rockers remind me of newer Ford.

[roverman]

Jim, maybe a Mopar 5.7/6.2 gasket will fit ? What if ?  roverman.

[mgb260]

Art, I might go to my friendly neighborhood auto parts store and do some gasket comparing:Chevy LS and newer Mopar Hemi! I'm usually not that lucky though.

[roverman]

Good news is...only need once !  YOU could be the "Pete Aardema" of the 4.9L. A Hemmy Cad-Sweeeet ! roverman.

[mgb260]

Tomorrow morning I will finally have some time to tear down and get bore spacing measurements.

[mgb260]

Bore spacing by tape measure: 4 3/8"(4.375) probably 4.4 like Chevy.Head bolt pattern 3.5" up and down 4.5" left and right.Skinny heads, probably have to live with stock heads: porting,polishing,gasket matching,larger unshrouded valves.