4.5/4.9 Cadillac V8

[mgb260]

I've got the measurments I need for mounts but have'nt had time. I will be gauging interest on a install kit similar to the V6 and Pete Mantells 302 kit. Price not set but, probably between the V6 and 302. It will be initially for 68-74 chrome bumper so rubber bumper models would have more room. Instead of templates for footbox mods I plan on providing patch panels(heater shelf to brake box and similar on other side) that could be riveted or welded.Motor mounts,RV8 style headers,trans mount for T5 initially,later Auto AW4/A340( could also be modified to Jim Blackwood's upcoming 6 speed auto kit if he makes an adapter to GM 60 degree V6/Caddy4.9) and Colorado,Canyon,Toyota 5 speed,instruction manual.I will also have accessories and various adapters for the 4.5/4.9 to swap to other vehicles in a catalog with link to  a Ebay store.

[mgb260]

These aren't mine but will give you an idea what I'm going to make. The headers are for a 215, the mounts for a Chevy V8 but similar to my design.

[mgb260]

We have 4 people off and a hiring freeze where I work,so still working almost every day in the Pulp and Paper mill. As soon as I have time I will have prototype pictures. In the meantime I am still doing research. The fuel injectors used by GM in the 80's and early 90's aren't the most reliable,prone to plugging and shorting. The yellow Bosch 2 and 3 found in later 5.0 Fords are much more reliable.My idea of LS 1 pistons won't work with the stock rods,not enough meat to bore from .880 to .927 for the pin. So would have to modify SBC rods or turn crank down to Quad 4 size.The Chevy water pump is feasable and the 4.5 used separate damper and pulleys.

[mgb260]

Picture of yellow Bosch Ford injector next to Caddy one.

[pcmenten]

Wow. The O rings look to be the same size. Is the impedance of the two similar? Even the wiring connector looks compatible.

Heck, I'll bet you can use the Ford EEC IV system on that little monkey.

[roverman]

Yeah, All we need now are some-Ford roller cam spec's, lol. roverman/jacker

[mgb260]

Art, Actually the Delta cam regrind is Ford Racing E303 roller spec.LOL I think a Ford designer had something to do with this engine or was blatantly copied. Too many similarities,oil pump drive,rockers,small ports,etc.

[roverman]

"Paul", Maybe we can "blatantly" ask those specs. ? Rollin On A River, roverman.

[mgb260]

E303 second mildest of  five after B303. Then F303, then X303 and Z303. Lift is figured with 1.6 rockers so add about .030 for 1.7. The E303 with 1.7 rockers, aluminum  heads and Performer RPM intake made 400 HP in 302(5.0) in a hot rod mag. Firing order for Ford 5.0 H.O. and 351W (5. is like LS, Ford numbers their cylinders differently.Here is a link with specs: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=1329

[pcmenten]

Thanks Jim. I'm trying to come up with specs for a new roller cam. I was going to use the stock Ford 5.0 HO grind;

1985-1988 5.0L Mustang Roller Cam
Part # E5ZE-6250-AA
Advertised Duration: 266 / 266
Duration @ .050: 210 / 210
Lift w 1.6 rocker: 0.444 / 0.444
Lift w 1.7 rocker: 0.472 / 0.472
Lobe separation: 115

1989-1995 5.0L Mustang Roller Cam
Part #'s E8ZE-6250-CA or F1ZE-6250-AA
Advertised Duration: 276 / 266
Duration @ .050: 214 / 210
Lift w 1.6 rocker: 0.444 / 0.444
Lift w 1.7 rocker: 0.472 / 0.472
Lobe separation: 115

I think that the rather wide LSA in the Ford 5.0/HO is partly due to the very low rod ratio and the resulting dynamics of the piston position that results from the low RR. The Rover 4.0 had a better rod ratio, so I'm going to tweak the LSA down to 113. This should still help the EFI with a strong signal, help with low-end torque and good economy, and still move the air.

The intake port airflow of the Rover 4.0 has flow characteristics very similar to the Ford 5.0, including flow rates and the fact that they both seem to level off their flows right above .400" valve lift. So, both engines will respond to roller cams in a similar manner.

What seems to be hanging this transaction is knowing what the ramp rate should be. I'm still not sure that a customer would be the one to specify ramp rate because it's partly a function of the material of the cam, the diameters of the cam lobe and the lifter's roller diameter, and considerations relating to side thrust of the lifter in its bore. This sort of information is probably better understood by cam grinder than a customer.

Edit: looking at the cam specs for the E303 and the B303, what jumps out at me is that the B303 is installed with the centerline advanced 3 degrees. The 'milder' B303 actually has more duration than the E303.

[roverman]

Clan, We need to move this to "Serious Roller Cams". Thanks, roverman.

[mgb260]

Still busy at work but, newer small gear reduction starters for 3400 and 3800 V6 will work in addition to the Allante starter. For example: 98 Pontiac GrandPrix 3800 supercharged has a more powerful motor, 1.7KW compared to 1.5KW stock. Also the 2 holes in front on each side of the block are ideal for low mount 1 piece alternator mount (like in Chad's Porsche swap) and steady rod/dogbone. Pictures of mounts with orange poly cushions and engine block in bay soon. Here is the smaller, more powerful starter pics:

[BlownMGB-V8]

The Bosch and Ford injectors are interchangeable. As long as the connectors are the same, about the only thing you have to watch out for are low impedance injectors, but those generally have very high flow rates so you aren't too likely to make a mistake there.

JB

[mlchristopher]

Hello! I'm very glad to see someone working with the 4.9. I would really like some more information on the low mount alternator bracket on the first page. Is that a stock piece? I'm contemplating a centrifugal supercharger for my 4.9, and I think that bracket may just be the ticket.

Thanks!

[mgb260]

That is a homemade one from Chad Turner's Porsche swap. Those 2 holes in the front are what I will use for my one piece aluminum mount. I am also making adapters to allow a small block Chevy waterpump.Here is a pic of a similar one with a mini-alternator. Also a pic of a Buick V6 supercharger on 4.9 from Pennock's Fiero Forum.

[mlchristopher]

Very nice, thank you. The buick supercharger is another idea I've been tossing around. Unfortunately, my fabrication skills are next to nil.  If you have links to Pennock's where you find the info, that would be super helpful. I've navigated the site, but I haven't had much luck finding what i need.

Keep up the great work!

[mgb260]

Michael, Go to Pennocks Fiero forum and use search function, including archives. Type in 4.9. Lots of info. Here is the link. 168 pages! Whew. You better grab a beer or two!http://www.fierosearch.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?start=165&forum=-1&where=SUB&SearchQuery=4.9&Action=DoSearch

[mlchristopher]

Thanks, mgb260, I had searched previously, but I guess I didn't include the archives. Lots of great information! I've actually owned a few fieros, but they're a tad small for me.

When you make that alternator bracket, I'd be interested in purchasing one from you if you want to make an extra. Or perhaps you could post the template.

Good Luck, and keep us posted!

[mgb260]

It will be similar to the one pictured,probably 1/2" aluminum. The 2 holes will be closer and bolt to a piece of angle bolted to the front side of block to the 2 existing holes. Then you would have to figure pulleys,belt,alignment. I plan on doing  a prototype and then marketing parts in an EBay store, plus small block Chevy water pump adapters and water outlet,4 barrel adapters,distributors,rocker arm kits,complete swap kits and individual parts for RWD conversion.
.

[mgb260]

Flywheels,plugged and drilled FWD 3100 and LSC Performance NEW billet steel for only $250.Tom-1-951-245-6367. You have to use Fiero V6 flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts.Also for RWD you will need Camaro or S-10 style pressure plate with matching throwout bearings or HTOB..

[mgb260]

Crane has conversion rocker studs for Cleveland, 5/16" bottom and 7/16" top for adjustable roller rocker arms. BB Chevy roller rockers are cheaper than Ford. Homemade guide plates. Been on vacation, but too many things going on.

[mgb260]

Speedway motors has Chevy valve keepers that raise spring height .030 or .060. Crane has keepers that lower that amount.So you could get the right height without machineing the heads. You would still have to cut the guide down for Viton Perfect Circle type seals.  You could do that yourself with a cutter and hand drill. Cut the guide down in the bowls also. Unshroud combustion chambers and good port job. I'll be using Chevy Z28  or LS1 Beehive springs(undecided) and 1.94 stainless intake and 1.5 exhaust valves. Good for up to .550 lift and 6500 RPM, about 105 lbs @ valve closed and 320 lbs @ .550 lift.

[roverman]

Jim, Flat tappet ? Look's like lifter bores are long ? Potential for roller ?

[mgb260]

4.9 uses the longer Chevy V8 roller lifters. I just like roller rockers too.

[mgb260]

Low mount alternator setup for serpentine belt. Opens up intake area for 3800 supercharger.