BritishV8 Forum

hello, i've already posted this in another thread before i realised it was quite old. my apologies if you're reading this for the second time.

Basically i was wondering if i could pick your brains about putting some fender flares on my BGT.
Omni flares definitatley seem to be the way to go, the only problem is that living in the UK they're near impossible to find. The other option is VW golf flares but the Omnis look so much better that i think the its worth the hassle of trying to import some.
I was wondering do all Omni models fit, or is there a particular year that works best?,
Would anyone know of anyone with a set for sale?

thanks.

All modes of the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon flares are the same. They are getting harder to find as they were last produced almost 30 years ago and most that remain in breakers have significant rust damage. Same with the VW Golf items, again just about the same age as the Omni items. I don't have any idea where you might find a set, and if you did find a set at a breakers you'd have to have them cut out of the body in the rear and probably should have them cut away from the front wings just to save shipping weight. You could also try craigslist  http://kansascity.craigslist.org/ which covers most of the metropolitan areas in the US and find some there. They don't seem to get on Ebay. Good luck.

I see RockAuto has Omni front fenders listed on their site for about $70 each. Search under RockAuto, Dodge/1982/Omni/Body/
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

Keep in mind that the Dodge Omni was sold under a LOT of different make and model names. As far as I know, all of them had the same fenders. For North America, Chrysler badged the car as both a "Dodge Omni" and as a "Plymouth Horizon" - there were gazillions of Horizons, so you shouldn't just search for "Omni".

As I recall, the same car was originally developed in France. If you're searching for it in UK or continental Europe, you'll want to look up the various model names used there. As I recall, the same car was sold as a "Simca Horizon", a "Talbot Horizon", and a "Chrysler Horizon". Wasn't it even badged "Sunbeam" at one point?

You can tell that I don't live in a very fancy neighborhood, because at least two of my neighbors are still driving Omni's. I see an Omni nearly every day! But car demographics vary widely from region to region. I spent last week in the Washington DC area, and I was amazed how few older cars I saw there. It seemed like I barely saw ANY cars built before 1995! It's been a long time since I visited France... but I have a hunch that Horizon's might be easier to find there than in England.

Its a very long time since I saw a Chrysler/Talbot Horizon on the road in the UK. The salt encouraged rust bug got them long ago.

There a few VW Golf Mk1 about and the is a bit more or a spares industry around them. So I expect you can buy replacement wheel arches for Golfs. Later cars tend to loose part of the flare to wrap round bumpers.

thanks everyone for your help. i've since managed to get in touch with the head of the simca horizon fan club UK (yes such thing does exist!), and he says he might have a set for me.
I told him i was restoring my old Horizon rather than chopping up one for my MG!

i'll post some pics up of the car once its done, although it might be a while.

forgot one last question

are the fender flares of all the different years of the Horizon the same? or is there a particular model year that fit better?

thanks again.

Adoni, the flares are the same for all years of omni's & horizons -- at least US spec cars.  When I did mine, I did notice that the arch tapers more at the front than the back.  So, you need two left hand & two right hand flares.  I initially had flares from a few different cars & had some tacked on... had to scratch my head when i stepped back because they didn't look right.  so be careful if you get one or two from one car & one or two from another.  I sent the last of my rear flares to the roadmaster project so not sure if those taper the same as the front or not.

Here's another option. Since you're already going to be doing sheet metal and wheelwell work anyway with the Omni flares, if you can get the use of an english wheel for an hour or so or have a shot bag and mallet it isn't hard to make some nice custom flares. But you'll need to do this first part of the job regardless in order to widen the inner tub. Make the cuts as shown and add a strip of flat sheet metal to obtain the desired width and weld the tub back into place.







After that's done the outside can be finished either with the Omni flares or with formed sheet metal, giving you the shape of flare that you prefer. Here is one other possible example. In this case the metal was bowed around the wheelwell much like shaping a funnel, and then bulged outward above the tires.



Jim

Also, as of a day or two ago there was an Omni on the Houston craigslist for $100.  Thought i posted the heads up here; must  have been on a similar thread on the MGB Experience board.

No affiliation & no time to go get it myself or I would!

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/1043650296.html   Someone can easily get free flares by buying it & selling the rest for scrap metal.

Nice pics, Jim.

Hmmm, what would be the best & maybe the easiest approach to removing that hump for the rubber stop?

I think you could slit and flatten it pretty easily. Make a vertical slit in the center of the bulge, then another slit behind the flange longitudinally. Might have to soften the flange area with a torch to make it deform the way you want and maybe another small cut or two for overlap or to remove excess material, and then weld it back up. Using the torch you could also probably forgo the vertical slit and just shrink the metal, might be able to do that behind the hump too but that's quite a lot trickier.  Maybe cut off the knob if you want. For us I'm not sure it matters, seems to me the Jag upright just does slip past it. But for a straight axle it might help with tire clearance.

I've been playing with the mig, getting used to it, practicing on sheet metal. It's not that easy to see what you're doing, I'm definitely not ready to start in on bodywork just yet. I like the low warpage but I'll probably end up still having to use the torch for the tricky stuff.

Jim

For low warpage, try stitch welding. Or spot it together, then move around a lot. Weld a little here, a little there.

I'm getting better at it. Getting the adjustment dead on is the first thing. At the sweet spot it smooths out to a steady hiss. But then it isn't real easy to keep that going. At about 1/2" of bead it wants to go out. I added more gas flow which seemed to help some but I guess I'll just have to keep playing with it. I've learned to sort of watch it from the side. Wonder if they make a cup for that with a narrower opening?

Jim

When ya get it just right, it sounds like bacon sizzlin'.  

Hi,  I've attached a few pictures so you can see what I did for my MG.  First time I'd done anything that major on body work.  I didn't have an English wheel at the time so I could only hand form.  Just cut a rough shape out of sheet metal Spot it on the flattest side and push it to shape and weld it in.   When I do it again I'll start from the inside out instead of the other way around.  Just too painfull doing the welds on the inner fender well!   I mig'd it in place and then TIG'd it to finish.  There are some places for water to sit but no chance this car will see much rain anyway.      http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2973575   I'm dying to get the 350 started up but work has really been tough this year. In the last month I've got one shock mounted for the Vette front end and the brakes almost hooked up.   Work sucks!
Bill

Yesterday I learned that when it makes the smooth hissing sound the wire is melting and balling up at the end, then it drops all at once and makes a blob. So I increased the heat one range and increased the feed but it is way touchy and it's really tough to  find a balance point between not enough wire and too much. On one side it forms blobs and then if I just breathe on the knob it goes to shooting the wire into the weld puddle. It seems like something may not be quite right with the power output somehow. Surely the range of adjustment shouldn't be quite that critical?

Jim

Well, you do have to fine tune it some. I don't think mine is that touchy, though. Sounds like you needed a smidge more wire speed without changing the power setting.

Some help:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/tech_tips/MIG_tips/

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Weld---MIG-Welding/

http://eddiem.com/projects/mig/tips.html

Thanks Carl, that video clip was particularly helpful. I'll try holding off the workpiece a little farther and practice a bit. I think I'm right close to where I need to be with the settings so I'll concentrate on fine tuning it and obtaining consistency. I've done this before, but never with this fine of a wire and only with industrial equipment that was already set up, welding heavier materials. Making progress anyway, maybe it is working as it should and I just need to adjust my tecnique.

Jim

Pretty ugly but it's getting a little better.



The bottom bead on the far right was the only decent one I have been able to get so far on setting #2. It's touchy as the dickens, and seems to go right from globbing to sticking with nothing in between. I managed just that once to get the distance just right and that was as far as I could hold it.

The lowest two beads were on #3 with fast travel and they didn't seem to do too bad except if I slowed down for an instant it'd blow through. Most of the rest of the mess is on #3 also.

So... Any suggestions? More practice, right?

Jim

Jim, I find it better on sheet metal to just do spot welds, a second or two at most and then let it cool. Move on to another area and come back and fill in as needed until the whole thing is welded. It leaves a rough surface that requires a bit of grinding but no blow throughs. I can't run a bead on sheet metal worth a darn, it's just too easy to burn through. The speed you move the torch has to be right on along with the heat and wire speed, pause for an instant and you've cooked it. I'm just not that coordinated.

How thick is that?  I'm starting to think my HTP is a pretty good machine.

Yeah, or maybe you're a pretty good welder? .032" thick, same as MG body panels.

I'm doing a little better with the short stitches, about 3/8" long. Any less than that and I get globs sticking up. I'll have to set up a butt weld and see what I can do with that.

Jim

Jim

Sometimes if the wire is bouncing off, the metal isn't clean enough try to sand the area or sand blast a little and see if that helps.  Also like Bill said when you are Welding sheet metal don't go any more than a half inch long at a time I usually make spot weld like in 1 second burst's then move to a different spot

Keep practicing you will get it

Joe

JIm,

I have found with body sheet metal at 032" to use the smallest wire you can find. I found some 023" wire that worked the best and also used a 023" tip in the mig welder. The cleaner your metal is the easier the welding is ( less contamination). Bill and Joe are spot on with stitch welds. If you try to do a long weld, it will heat up the metal to much and you will blow through. Stitch weld about every 2" or 3" and then come back and fill in the gaps. Some times you can get away with a long weld but most of the time I ended up sewing it together for my firewall and inner fender work. If I scewed up, always had the grinder close by. Also every welder is different but I ended up using about 17lbs of gas seemed to work best for me. On my mig 80%Argon mix.
Tig 100% Argon. Yes! short 1 second blast works well once the mig is dialed in. I put my tip at a 45 degree angle or more, it helped not to blow through my work, and sometimes I layed the outer tip right on my work so the gas for sure gets to the metal to sheild.

Good luck, the more you do it the more you will find your own comfort zone with it.

Hope this helps,

Calvin

Biggest problem I have right now is consistency. I did get it so that I could lay down some 1/4" beads that looked pretty good, but when I slit the metal and then tried to weld it together all I could get was a bunch of goobers stuck on top and no penetration. I did find laying the nozzle over helped but right now I'm getting real cold starts. That would make for an awful lot of grinding and real bad strength. I'm going to try more tension on the drive wheels tomorrow, but at this point I'd be a lot better off sticking with the gas torch.

Jim