BritishV8 Forum

Greetings.... I'm new to the site and looking for advice from anyone who's been down this road.  I brought home a very rough TR8 coupe as a project. I also picked up a 4.0 out of a 98 Land Rover Discovery figuring that it would give me the HP and driveability I was after on a fairly stock build. I'm pretty keen on keeping the 4.0 front cover with the serpentine belt drive along with the components being driven.  Also I want to keep the coil pack arrangement.  I was given a manual gearbox Land Rover flywheel with the spark triggers  but after seperating the gearbox from the 3.5 I have doubts it will fit inside the bell housing. I will need to address the oil pan on the 4.0 but my plan was to install the 4.0 and see what all will need to be done for fitment and the drop it  back out and begin the body work.  

So I'm looking for any help from anyone who might have "been there, done that" for advice, even if not in a TR8

Thanks,

LaVerne

Where I'm at now

Is that going in
or coming out?

Thats what came out.....this is what I need to fit..

Need to swap the oil pan off the TR8
I would pull the acc. off the old for the new as I think it will be to high

He is going from V-belt to serpentine.

The oil pan swap may be worth sorting out first.

The 4.0/4.6 oil pickup attaches to the front cover, not the middle of the block, and I don't think the later front covers can be modified to accept the older style pickup location.  My 4.6 Bosch-era cover has a 1" deep vestigial stub-hole(?) casting that aligns to the older pickup passages in the block, but the stub doesn't connect to anything.  There's a spring bypass valve on the other side of it that connects to the gerotor pump, but I have no idea what would happen if you drilled out the stub to connect them.  Probably something not good.

The older style pan may fit over the new pickup, but I don't think so.  It's possible that you could cut/weld/hammer a sheetmetal oil pan to fit around the later style pickup.  

If none of the above sounds appealing but you're committed to the serp front cover, you may be committed to the serp pan.

Thanks guys.  I need to get my engine stand back from my nephew  later today and pull the pans and see what I'm up against.   This may not be do able, but we'll see. I know the plenum will take some work to clear the bonnet and I suspect the alternator will sit to high as well....it will be close.  I think the rest of it will fit . I did get a little cleaning done yesterday.

Which bonnet does that car have?  The later one with the extra bump in the middle should help if you have that. I can't really tell from the exposure but it looks like you might. The plenum on my 1uz fits perfectly in the center bump.

I should add that we spaced the body up about an inch from the original TR7 position.  We used hockey pucks.

It's the later bonnet with the bump out but I imagine the plenum will still be an issue.    The question before me now is if the oil pick up tube and il pan can be interchanged between the two blocks without issue.  Clearly the Land rover pan will not work and I suspect if I remove both pans I will find different pick up assemblies.  Not a big deal if they can be swapped.   Big mess and a waste of time if they cannot.  Anybody know for sure?

Same block

Thanks Don.  I went ahead and pulled the pans and see that it shouldn't be a problem to swap the pickups and the pan. The TR8 pan has the windage tray bolted to the bottom of the black. The 4.0 pan has the tray welded into the pan.  Good news is that the 4.0 is drilled and tapped to move the tray from the 3.5.   I will need to check the throw of the crank for any difference I suppose.

For now I just removed the pick up off the 4.0 and put the 3.5 pan on it.  Moved it over and will bolt up the gearbox and shove it all back in and see how it fits.  Removed the air conditioning compressor as I'm pretty sure it would not clear going in but I believe it will once in the engine bay.

QuoteSame block

Same external dimensions, but not the same block.  You cannot interchange these two blocks.

The 4.0 is in now and the alternator is an issue as well as the plenum.  At this point I believe I will cut openings in the TR7 bonnet I have and try and fab up some semi attractive bubbles to weld in place.

Why do that
Better ideas than butchering a bonnet

It is hitting the alternator.  Move it to the side and the bonnet will close.  The plenum looks to me like it will fit right in the bump.

I am open to suggestions but the car was never going to go back to original.  Using the 4.0 gives me something a lot closer to the hp I'd like to see without getting crazy on the build. The single belt drive at the front also appeals to me for a number of reasons as well as the fi and the coil pack if I can pull it off.   A relocation of the alternator is something I'll look at first but preliminary indications are it's unlikely I will do so.  I drug this 7 home for parts so I don't have any problem hacking up the bonnet in an attempt to build what I'm after.

Double check that the front cover will still work with the new oil pickup location.

The block still has the passages and threaded holes for the older style mid-point pickup, but my 4.6 front cover does NOT align with the old passages in the block.  (The gasket has a hole for the old pickup line, but the cover casting blanks it off.). I think the flow through the 4.0/4.6 cover by the old pickup hole is reversed from the older style, so drilling a hole isn't an option, and I don't see an easy way to modify it to accept the old pickup.

I'd hate to see you go to lot of work to adapt sheetmetal to the serpentine alternator/ac/belt/pulley setup, only to have it not work out.

I didn't swap front covers Dave.  Complete swap from the 3.5 to the 4.0   Both blocks have the oil pick up tubes located mid block.  The tube bends are different as are the pans but they are interchangeable.  I removed the alternator and as expected the plenum sits to high.  I made a half hearted attempt to remove the plenum but the allen head bolts are firmly fixed and I'll need to pick up the correct size socket drive.  I suspect they may be loctited and some heat may be in order as well.  I had to go help get an MG tub moved from the paint shop yesterday and I saw something on this caddy that has me thinking that there is an alternative to butchery. I have plenty of room below the power steering pump if I can fab up some bracketry and come up with a double belt drive pulley.

I posted a new thread on gerotor-style front covers with some pics of the inside of the serpentine cover, have a look at those pics and you'll see what I mean.

The Bosch/Thor style 4.0/4.6 covers won't draw oil through the original pathway/pickup, even if you swap the tubes and pans to the older mid-block style.

There is a hole in the 4.0/4.6 gasket for the original pickup pathway, but the passageway is then blocked by the casting. In the 4.0/4.6 casting that side of the cover is the high-pressure side.  If you were to drill out the casting and remove the original tube, you would have the flow reversed, with no pickup at all.  If you drilled the casting and used the 4.0/4.6 pickup, you would be blowing oil back into the pan through the original pickup pathway.

this is the location of the pickup on the 4.0   block  Same as the 3.5

And the 3.5     The only thing that may be an issue now is the 3.5 had a stud in one of the main caps for to secure the windage tray and pick up.  Since I have the 4.0 in the TR8 now with the pan on I cannot see if that cap is drilled and tapped, but I would guess it is not

The 4.0/4.6 block allows you to bolt the old style pickups onto it, yes, but the serpentine front cover does not draw oil through that passageway.  It only draws oil from the bottom, where the 4.0 pickup was.  As you have it set up now, your crank-driven oil pump in your 4.0 cover will not draw any oil.  It will only suck air through the hole you removed the 4.0 pickup from.  

Your 4.0 cover may be different from my 4.6 cover, but I doubt it.  In your 4.0, was the original pickup location capped with a plate and gasket or otherwise plugged to maintain pressure or suction?  If not, then you can conclude the passageway isn't connected to the oil pump intake.

The picture above was from the 4.0 when I removed he pan..with the pick up tube as shown.  When I pull the engine for the rebuild I will use the pick up assembly and windage tray from the 3.5.  Shouldn't be any issue that I can see.