BritishV8 Forum

Ok guys, I need more traction.  It's too easy to spin the tires in 1st, 2nd, & even 3rd.  It's not uncontrollable, I'm not spinning them by surprise... I'm just not getting the power to the ground.  

Current tires are 225/50/15 Falken ZIEX ZE-912's.  UTQG = 360-AA-A.

Few performance tires in that size... others are
    * BFGoodrich g-Force Sport (340-AA-A)
    * Toyo Proxes 4 (300-AA-A)
    * Pirelli P Zero (140-A-A)
    * Toyo Proxes RA1 (100-AA-A)

Looking for good traction tires I can use as every day street tires - generally dry weather but in rain from time to time.

Anyone have personal experience with any of the above?  What do you suggest?

Only other option I know of would be to replace my wheels (rear or all 4) with 17" to get other tire options -- but I like my current wheels & they'd be very expensive to replace.

I did research a little about widening my wheels -- a few companies do it & the extra width would go inboard which is where I'd need it.  But, I've also read a few sites saying widening is a very bad idea as a hard sheering force could cause catostrophic failure at the weld.  Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Rob, You might consider testing the "current" durometer hardness, of your existing tires. Age has a way of increasing the hardness.  Are your wheels steel/ or ? Less shear force on inside of wheel vs outside.  As a long shot, you might consider lowering the front pivots, of your leaf springs ? This would allow more weight transfer, to the rear, when you need it most.  Good Luck, roverman.

Rob,
If I were you, I'd start with the simplest option and that would be to choose a softer tire. I went from a 300 UTQG to a 140 UTQG and really appreciated the difference.
As far as keeping the wheels from spinning, that's all in the right foot.

Rob when you were in town and rode in my car, my tires were 300 utqg!

Rob (actually anyone with the R200 diff.), Is the issue with the tires or the differential? As I understand it, the viscous system won't transfer more than ~ 15% of the torque to the wheel with the most traction. So, are you spinning one or both tires?
I had asked Richard Good about a clutch limited slip, and he has good reasons for not recommending them, but I just wonder if that would be a solution?
Thanks,
Dennis

Well, it was the ride with Calvin that got me realizing I could get way more out of my car with more traction.  He has an R200S if I recall so don't think the viscous limited slip is my issue.  He has more horsepower (ok, a lot more horsepower), but that shouldn't matter because he's clearly getting way more of it to the ground than I am.  I could feel the accelleration way more in his car than mine -- Like I said, I can control my right foot (thank you very much Ken) to not spin them, but if I tried to accelerate as hard as Calvin did, all I'd get is smoke.  Tells me I need more traction.

RE: one or both spinning - haven't had anyone behind me -- no one I knew anyway -- but no doubt both are spinning.

Rear end ratio is 3.54 -- think that's the same as Calvin's.  Transmission gears are:  3.53, 1.93, 1.33, 1.00, 0.68

I'm surprised 360 UTQC to 300 would make that much difference -- although I think Calvin's are 245's vs. my 225's so that's about 9% more contact area.  Not sure if UTQC is linear; if so 360 vs. 300 would be another 17% improvement.  Combined that's in the 25% range.

The BF Goodrich g-Force are double to cost of the Toyo's - anyone have experience with either of the Toyo's -- especially in the rain?  Not performance driving in the rain - just want to be sure they'll be reasonably safe with conservative/defensive driving in rain.

Hey Rob,
The UTQC ratings are set by the manufacturer and are pretty subjective.
So a direct comparison is a little sketchy at best.
I have had the Falkens on a couple of vehicles and been pretty happy with them.
They are a good general use tire but traction is certainly not their strong point.
The RA1's  are a race tire and will give great traction and good wet handling (as long as the tread lasts).
But they will wear out very quickly and I wouldn't use them as a street tire.
The Goodrich Gforce and the Toyo P4 are going to be almost the same as the Falkens.
My choice would be the Pirelli P Zero or the Hankook Ventus R-S3.
Great traction and reasonable wear, decent wet handling.
Your rear suspension isn't really set up for straight line acceleration so some changes will benefit there as well.
Cheers
Fred

Just an added note.
Make sure that your bodywork is protected.
The stickier tires will pick up road debris and fire it at your paintwork like a sand blaster.

RE:  Your rear suspension isn't really set up for straight line acceleration so some changes will benefit there as well.

Recognizing the car isn't intended to be a dragstrip car, are there things I can do to my existing IRS to improve traction?

RE: Pirelli P Zero & Hankook Ventus R-S3, looks like the Pirelli's come in 225/50/15 at about $280/tire.  The Hankook's are only about $115/tire, but are an inch smaller diameter than my front tires -- thinking that won't look right but might have to see if my local tire shop will mount one so I can have a look.

Sorry Rob,
didn't notice that the R-S3 wasn't available in a 50 series anymore.
Cheers
Fred

Hey Rob I have bf Goodrich t/a's 215 60 r15 on the rear I kept the 3.90 rear but I put those traction bars you commented on and I can smoke my tires if I want but I can stomp this from a stop and the power goes to the road so good I am very happy with the set up hope you find the right combo for you good luck

Rob,

Some thoughts here. When I went from 450lb spring rate to 600lb spring rate in the rear of my car + installing stiffer rate front shocks, and last was lowering the front of the car about an inch. That combo of changing stuff , greatly changed how my car handled + way better tracktion. Your car weights just about the same as mine does. I do know the Yokoahoma S Drive tires are a pretty sticky tire. I had BF Goodrich tires before and had crapy tracktion to almost being dangerous. Maybe the transfer of weight has something to do with is also.

Good luck finding the right combo. Your car is different that most because of the IRS. It's hard to setup like some other MG setup being a straight axle. Keep at it and you will find the right setup, but whatch out for whiplash once it hooks up right.

Hello it's me Tom's I don't know whether this tread should be called tires or traction I personally would label the tread rear suspension or set up as far as tires go in my opinion nitto Toyo and Yokohama are the best street tires money can buy traction in these little cars does not start with tires it ends up with tires it starts with motor mounts and movement is then goes to clutch low impact but still have enough grip it moves on from there and gets complicated the differential has to move equal and opposite the rotation of the motor it moves from there to rear suspension in an IRS car you cannot compare your car to Calvin's car that's like comparing a Hummer to a Volkswagen but since the topic is tires I will add my vote a good biting street tire not a drag tire I would choose the Nitto NT01 Or 555R

I would have tried the NT01 a long time ago if they made a size I could stuff under my car everybody says I should be happy with the way my car hooks but I'm not I have plans for big changes this year over the winter acceleration is like an addiction more you get the more you want

Calvin spit out a really nice name for this topic weight transfer that is a very interesting topic it's a nasty Catch-22 it takes traction to get weight transfer but it takes weight transfer to get traction?? Which comes first?

Here's a really good question Can you ever just have too much horsepower I think that gets back to the addiction thing yep I am an addict my plans this winter are to take the old British buggy to 900 usable hp I have already started buying parts I must say Rob you always start interesting topics on here obviously you never stop thinking that's awesome

Rob,

The Hankook R-S3 in a 225/45-15 is likely the best choice & will lower your car a bit. Gonna have to spring for all four.

Loved my Toyo RA-1s. At full tread (8/32"), they were rain tire for Spec Miata. I ordered mine shaved to 5/32" to reduce tread squirm for track days & our annual autox. Once they wore down from there, they went from scary to real scary in the rain. Awesome in the dry, though!

How you liking that 1st gear ratio?  

Love my RS3s

Given I can get a set of 4.of the Hankook's for the price of 2.of the Pirelli's I'm inclined to agree with Carl... if they'll fit.  With 205/55's in the front I had slight tire rub on the outer sidewalls so I'm afraid 225's will be a problem even with the slightly smaller diameter.

Check out the Jan. Hot Rod magazine.
They had a pretty good article on the tires that you are looking at.

QuoteWith 205/55's in the front I had slight tire rub on the outer sidewalls so I'm afraid 225's will be a problem even with the slightly smaller diameter.

Likely, since the 225 has a 8.86" section width vs the 205s 8.07" width.  Which means the outer sidewall will protrude by an additional 4/10".

Running any spacers up front that could be reduced in thickness?  Quality, sticky tires that fit our cars is becoming quite difficult  

No spacer up front.  Have thin spacers in the rear but can't eliminate them as they were needed to keep my LCA's from rubbing the wheels.  Have a conversation going with American racing to see if my wheels can be modified.  Have also contemplated re-making my LCA's and uprights so they'll fit inside the 15" wheels.  That would enable wider rear wheels... and possibly more backspace up front to fit the 225's better.

Rob,

The lack of 15" tires is the reason I went to 16". Trouble is the Yokohams AVS I have now ride hash. WIth your upgraded front and rear supsension that may not be an issue for you. Have you considered changing wheels?

Hi Mike.  I like the look of my wheels and they don't make a 16" version.  Plus, seems like 16" wheels were only common for a short time so guessing performance tires are similarly limited or soon will be.

The Tire Rack web site has extensive data on tires, much of it is from their own testing. As you may know, Tire Rack has their own handling course which is much more extensive than just a skid pad, and they also drive on local roads to evaluate noise, ride harshness, etc. Testing is done using a 3 series BMW owned by Tire Rack (at least this was true the last time I checked). Their data incudes both wet and dry performance and is a good starting point to look for tires even if you do not intend to buy them from there.

Good info Larry.  Thanks.  I've checked with American Racing and they can't do my wheel centers in 17" hoops, plus, I like the 15" look.  So, I've contacted Ted to see what I'd need to return my suspension to stock width.  I'm assuming it's the control arms that are longer but won't know for sure till I hear back.  If I can go back to stock width, I could switch to the Hankook RS3's.  If not I need to keep looking for other ideas.

Calvin mentioned heavier springs.  Need to double check, but if memory serves I have 250lb 10" springs.  Anyone have 10" springs in the 300-400 lb range they'd be willing to let me try out?

Great idea, Rob. I'm pretty certain they don't use two different jigs, so it should be something easy to swap. Expect to put you car back on the alignment rack.  

Those Hankook RS3's are the best you will find. While your 7" fronts will work, a 7.5" is better, & an 8" rim is optimal for a 225 (which you do have in the back).

Absolutely, Larry. I use the Tire Rack site for tire research quite a bit. Lots of great info. The biggest problem is that extreme performance tires for 14" & 15" wheels are getting scarce.

Noticed on tirerack they have g-Force Rival for the same price as the Hankook RS3's.  The gForce come in 205/50/15.  Thoughts about using them on the front and the Hankooks on the rear?