BritishV8 Forum

Isn't the British American Deviant Automotive Sportscar Society a non-profit organization?  As such, won't some banks waive the service charge?

holy crap, service charges are eating you ALIVE.


Small item, BUT-- any chance you can get that account in a Credit Union and lose less on the service charge each month?

getting into many credit unions is now redonkulously easy in the US.  while a CU charter requires a 'limited possible membership pool' ( which in olden days was usually limited to the employees/families of company X or being a fireman or teacher or some such ), they've figured out that they can define their charter as "living or working in X county" and still be considered as legally having a 'limited population' from which they can draw.

practically speaking, this means that almost everyone is going to have a local CU for which they can qualify for membership simply by residing in their house or driving down the road and going to work.

when i was in Tx, Austin Telco CU permitted me to join simply by making a $5 donation to a specific national charity that they were affiliated with.  i forget which charity that is and i no longer have the account so it's not really important.



the uninformed might think that a CU limits them in access options.  actually, another possible BIG benefit of a credit union account is what is known as a "Credit Union Service Center".
http://www.cuservicecenter.com/

i have accounts with three different credit unions.  i can travel *anywhere in the country*, find a "service center" equipped CU  and have access to all of my funds from all three of my accounts through a 4th party credit union.  given that there are almost 5000 service centers nationwide now, i'm rarely far from one.  here's a list of service centers in HI, there's "only" 73 access options on the islands:
http://www.cuservicecenter.com/ServiceCenters.aspx?state=HI

i was probably worst off in Sebastian, Fla.  in order to get to a service center i had to drive to Fort Pierce which was about an hour away.

credit unions also usually offer no-fee ATM transactions to foreign CU accounts.

RE:  Differential.

Toby and I have a plan to get the (presumed) 2.88 diff scrounged on or before January 26th (weather permitting.)   It is in a Series III XJ6 sedan that is buried 4 cars deep in the yard, so we have to do some parting out/throwing out to get access to it.  (After which time, it, too, will likely get junked.)  

THIS WILL BE THE ATTEMPT.   If this fails to produce a good axle-- well, sorry, I tried.   (I've phenagled my boss into helping me with this on HIS time and dime-- I can't ask much more than that!).  

When I have axle out of parts car I will clean and assess and report.    At that time, depending on where the Roadmaster is and whether I can get a crew assembled to do the swap, we'll work out whether the car needs to come HERE, the diff needs to be sent <there>, or whatever.    If the diff is unuseable as is, we can then discuss if it's worth bothering to have IT rebuilt (so as to get the lower ratio.)   REM:  current axle is 3.54.   The 2.88 would drop a 3000 rpm cruise down to 2440.   :-)  

Tentatively, then, we're looking at some weekend likely in February IF (big "IF") the car was to come Here for the diff swap.  

I've queried the "Events List" as well to learn when the car is scheduled to appear, and thus to work out when it might be available to have this work done without disrupting those scheduled events.

More as it occurs.  :-/  

Max

Max,
I can come help If you want.
We can do the swap here if that is better, or bring the car to you.
I will wait to do the u-joint until the diff is decided.
Now, assuming that you get a diff, should we do all four u-joints when we do the swap?

Steve

Steve:

With the advancing age (of the car, but maybe Me, too?) I do U-joints only as necessary.   Needless pressing in and out just loses the interference fit.  

NOW... if access is difficult in the Roadmaster and this IS THE TIME-- and the existing joints all look pretty old-- yeah, I can see doing all even if they still feel good.   But I don't go for the "always swap both" idea that some tout.   I think that just wears out the hard parts prematurely. :-p

M

UPDATE:

"Weather is NOT permitting"- freezing rain at the moment, and tomorrow's event has been postponed until NEXT Weekend.   WE have moved a couple of the junk cars, so it shouldn't be too tough to get at the actual donor car.  

M

We all appreciate your efforts Max. Try to persevere, we're not going anywhere.

Jim

Got it!

Toby and I towed 4 cars out of the way, dragged (literally!) the Jag into the shop and then had the back end out and stripped in a few hours.  

It IS a 2.88 (as the tag says-- I didn't go nuts and count teeth... yet.)   It felt good, turned smooth, had lots of (thick, but...) oil in it.   It has been cleaned and rinsed and resoaked in some fresh oil to coat the bearings.  

It will need new seals and gasket, but that seems minor.  (Front seal was leaking-- I wouldn't trust the output shafts seals.)  

So.... I'll contact "My Crew" and see if we can make this diff swap happen in the next month.   :-)

Cheers,

Max

Okay, so Report:

a) The diff swap is done.  It IS a 2.88 (Steve counted gears).  It now features new seals & new output bearings (both inner and outer).  Outer pinion bearing looked okay, so we chose to trust those.  

b) While the rear subframe is removable pretty easily (except for some idiots who put the wiring Under and Through the subframe (that would be US  :-p)) it was NOT easily disassembled!   The long pins, bolts, rod ends, and other items were rusted up!!  In fact, we never got out the passenger side long pin-- we just removed the diff from the other side and left that side together.   Also, we left the rod ends in place, having no ability to get new ones on the weekend.

c) We cleaned and de-rusted (parts tumbler) all the bolts and anti-seized them before they went back together.   The radius arm was nearly impossible to reattach and we had to use TWO ratcheting towstraps to get it to line up.

d) We did end up doing all four u-joints on the half-shafts.   Many of the cups either wouldn't take grease or were pushing out rust, so as it was such a pain in the ass to get it this far apart we figured we better deal with them now.  

e) All that aside, the above IS a "custom" item and I'm willing to accept a certain Difficulty Factor when dealing with it.   MY biggest complaint on the weekend is the Brake Master Cylinder!   WHY CAN'T THIS BE BLED LIKE A "normal" unit?    Those in Townshend last time will remember the difficulties.  Steve finally got brakes having it pressure bled.   Well, despite only disconnecting the REARS, we, too, had NO BRAKES (to the Floor!) and had to rig up a pressure bleeding system so as to get some brakes back in the car.     I found this not only stupid and hard to explain, but also ridiculous for a car that needs to be passed from one user to another.   I'm open to explanations of why this BMC behaves this way and what can we do to change it?  

f) We also tackled a few other simple items (this is all in the Logbook-- 4 pages!), including Carl's suggestion of overfilling the T5 as it normally would have been tilted in a Camaro and thus holding more fluid.  (So, it now has about 2.7 Qts of ATF rather than just the 2 it "level" fills to.)  

g) There are still some items that we didn't get to because they were "niggling" but not that imperative.  (At one point all four of us were on the axle.   But when we started, Steve handled the Diff, Tim tackled the loose steering column (Yay, Fixed!), and Carl made an attempt to get the drivs door to fit better.   In the end, the two that stick out that one notices are the interior lights not working and the poor fit of the window glass.  (Door fitment has a LOT to do with this.)

h) We DID fix the door lock so that the car can be secured.   We also safety tethered the fan shroud so that it can't get knocked out and drag on the ground again (!), put a protective sleeve over the front brake hose where it was chafing against the a-arms, tack welded the loose front coil spring locators, and reattached the map pocket.  (Neat location!   I like that idea.   :-)  )


Last comments on the Rear Subframe Assy:  The old rebound strap location had stess cracked (it's the upper rear mount for the subframe).  We had to weld that up.  We also noted that the hole locators on the main brackets, that bolt in the OE shock location, were only the washers thickness as well.   We welded up those holes to provide more support behind the washers.    Also, there were casting defects in the hub carrier (I think Pass side) that meant the a-frame bottomed out on THEM rather than the poly bushes!  The result was-->once the shock was removed, the carrier was still locked in place (rather than flopping free)!    We are curious to see what this does for the handling.  

PIcs to follow in other posts.   I will start driving the car today to get my own feel for it before Toby and I go to the BMTA on Thursday.  

Oh, last note (also in logbook):  car was serviced.   Kingpins, diff, tranny, engine oil and filter.  Checked coolant (great!) and obviously we ended up flushing the brake fluid.   Did NOT do clutch.  (We were into serious 11th hour stuff with those f-ing brakes!).  Also lubed hub carriers.   Did NOT check front wheel bearing grease.   :-(  (Plum forgot.)  

Cheers,

Max

Sometimes you just gotta....

Radius arm is now nearly impossible to reattach since the toe was corrected.   (It was easier when the car was first assembled-- it was 5deg toe OUT! (Steve info here).)

Last one for now... overfilling the tranny (Carl's suggestion).

What the hay, two More.   :-)

Going back together:

The stress cracked rear subframe mount....

Thanks to Max and the crew for all this work, the car should be much better now.  Anyone want to take it from here for some of the early spring events? It needs to find a home for a while as Max doesn't have the facilities to store it long term. I'm sure that most of you are not thinking about car shows now and are looking at a white world outside as we are here in Kansas, but spring is not far away. Our first local event isn't on the calendar until April 20, just before the winter meet.  Send me an e-mail if you want the car for a while, mgmidgetbill@gmail.com

Good job guys! Max, I'll have to get with you or one of the other guys first chance we get to get a better understanding of the issues you discovered with the IRS. Obviously the attachment points are the most serious but don't sound too severe. Probably not quite enough give in the rear mounts isolators, that sounds like a redesign somewhere down the road might be a good idea. I'm not sure what you meant about the porosity in the carrier/bushings but am curious for more details. I know what you mean about the wiring, maybe a wiring channel in the top crossmember would be a good idea.

Incidentally, I am in the market for a spare Jag IRS assembly in good condition, good brakes and Power-Lok preferred, if you happen to run across something at a great price.

The brake M/C was selected by Bill Guzman. It seems to work OK once it is bled but I agree, what a pain it is. Entirely too resistant to bleeding, and it does seem excessively large and heavy. It's possible there is something wrong in the internal clearances. I like the stock single cylinders very well as they can gravity bleed overnight, but they require a balance bar. There is no reason we couldn't use something else if someone has a good suggestion. The car is fitted with the late pedal box, but I believe we still have an early one we could use if we need to.

Can't wait to hear what you guys thought of the car with the new rear gears.

Jim

Jim:

(Quick response.  Home fer lunch).

a) There was just a little ovalling of the front spring mount (drivs) and then the break at the rear pass mount upper.   So maybe just a little misalignment?   I think the rebound mounts just need some better side bracketry and possibly thicker metal?   The whole subframe, however, is fairly easy to remove so we were impressed by that.  :-)   If you do another one, maybe doing some final welding when you are actually on a frame machine?   The radius arm issue was a near panic getting it reconnected.   :-(

b) One of the other Techs thought the BMC pushrod might be adjusted too much and this is prohibiting the reservoir from drawing back in.   (However, in a TR6, this would make the brakes slowly lock on!)   I'm curious if the PDWA is still working correctly (they often get gummed up when old.  We rebuild frequently.)  That might be worth looking into.  

c)  The carrier housing was just some "nubs" of aluminum that stuck out past the bushings.  So, the bolts would clamp down onto them (shiny marks).  We ground them away and now it flops around smoothly (until the coil over is installed.)

d) So far, axle seems quiet.  I'll do a highway stint tomorrow.   I'm more worried about the pinging and running on, but Steve says this will go away with some Hi-Test.   I'll fill up tomorrow.    I'm hoping (fingers crossed) for maybe 20 mpg cruising with the new ratio, but Carl thought it might now rev too low, off the power band (I never saw dyno graph to know..) and thus the motor won't be that happy.    I'll see how it feels tomorrow at speed.  

Cheers,

M

I see, thanks Max.
The trouble with that forward (diagonal) link arm, whatever it's proper name is somehow I can never remember. Anyway it could be affecting the mounting points when it is bound up that tightly to bring in the alignment. Don't know why it was out that far to begin with, but as we know MGB bodies aren't exactly straight so maybe it's necessary to account for that by offsetting the soft mounting points a little. I'll know a little more when I get my RD aligned. I'm sure we could compensate for that but it would mean a lot of new mounting pieces. If I need them for mine I'll make extras for the RM. Also, curiously enough, the binding of the upright's lower pivot would have increased the loading on the mounting points on that side and may have caused the other problems or at least contributed to it. It's good that you guys had it out so we could see how the body was handling the torque loading. Not too bad, everything considered.

The next version of this is going to get one piece LCA assemblies welded up out of aluminum and the long pivot rods will be a thing of the past. Instead they will have a pivotable, adjustable front and rear attachment, and an as yet undetermined intermediate point, possibly a cam follower. (necessary to control pinion rise using LCA counter-torque) They will very likely get  a new hub and bearing carrier assembly as well. I think with the right parts and the right wheels there is a very good chance that I can get the whole package inside the stock bodywork and still have the long wheel travel.

How is the acceleration with those gears?

Jim

Excellent work, Max.

Driving report:

Well, the highway stint was disappointing-- Vibration is atrocious!   Thought a wheel was going to fly off..    I think others have made comments about this but I didn't think it was this bad.   I found the car undriveable at ~70 mph.   (However, down around 60, it seems fine!)

WELL.... pretty sure we know what this is!  (Steve found it.)  

The LUGNUTS we are using are shanked @ .680".   But the WHEELS (Jag wheels) are .700!   Thus, we slop around the hubs!  

We ran the car on the lift and found the wheel NOT concentric with the hub.  (We'd also noticed the fronts seemed "out of round", but we thought that was tire not wheel mount).  

I've scrounged some Jag lugs and installed them on the rear-- PERFECT!  

The bitch is going to be getting the FRONTS!   From research done today,they don't make a 7/16-20  lugnut with anything bigger than a .687" shank.  

(JIM:-- what is that hub?  Is there a way to get the 1/2-20 lugs up front?)  

So, my first attempt tomorrow will be to do a thread insert in the old Jag lugnuts to downsize them from the 1/2-20 to the 7/16-20.  (With SAME thread pitch, this shouldn't be too much of a cluster F...)  

Anyway, that's tomorrow as it just didn't seem driveable to the BMTA as it was.   Hopefully this cures it (and if so, i'll make a spare lugnut or two to keep with the spare.)  


The "shutdown" issue has gone away with the Premium gas.   However, I'm still not happy with the overall tune.   Twice it fell on it's nose when given the beans and there is noticeable hesitation at mid-throttle.  (This seems transitional between Primary and Secondary?)   It was Rainy today, though, so we might still be ingesting too much moisture for smooth running?   I'll see how it does on a "nice" day.   :-)


RE:  overall driveability.   I like it!   The rear end feels very compliant, it doesn't seem to "push" (someone else's complaint.  Perhaps this went away with freeing up the binding in the right rear suspension?).  The gear ratio seems fine-- very tractable and versatile.  Found myself doing city driving in 2nd gear, but could shift up to 3rd and still pull fine.     The acceleration is strong, but maybe not blistering?  (SEe above "stumble" issue.)   It still puts you in the back of the seats.  

Given the stiffness of the steering, it's not a great autocrossing car.   And, with how it was used last year (Power Tour), I think a "Grand Tourer" is a good goal for it.    

I'm hoping to be able to report gas mileage of 20mpg with the new axle.  (Which IS quiet, BTW!)    We'll see after the Conference.  

Cheers,

M

(JIM:-- what is that hub? Is there a way to get the 1/2-20 lugs up front?)


you can drill the hub, by hand if necessary.

a mill machine would be best to be certain that you were maintaining concentricity.

Max,
The hubs are late '60s Chevelle or Camaro. I believe, around '69, whatever was the first years they had disc brakes. I'm positive the holes for the studs are going to be somewhere in the range of 5/8" down to around .575" so it will be possible to find studs in a 1/2" - 20 size that will fit the existing holes, at which point the stock Jag lug nuts will fit. The studs also attach the rotors to the back of the hub so the shank will be about 3/4" long with the knurl towards the threads. I think this is going to be a pretty common stud, and because Ford, Mopar, International Harvester and many others used 1/2" those should be the ones that will work. You can bang them out one at a time and pull the new ones in with an impact wrench if you get the right size. Variations in the knurl is not an issue, and a few thousandths difference in the shank size and step for the rotor can usually be tolerated.

Now that the gearing is taller any shortcoming in the tune is going to be more apparent. With the oil consumption cured we can now take steps to dial it in correctly, and anything that you do which results in the car running better will certainly be an improvement.

But mostly, I'm just thrilled that you like it.

Jim

From page 6 of this very long MG Roadmaster thread:


 

QuoteThe brake rotors are 11" diameter 1968 Camaro. I have notes that also show that these may be the same as: 1968 to 1972 Nova. 1969-1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass and F85. A GM parts supplier should be able to make sense of it. I knew a guy at NAPA that gave me some of this info. I also noted that I found that these rotor-hubs were available from from a performance supplier as a two piece hub-rotor combination. I did not keep part numbers, as I saw something (Fast Cars) in the future, although I did'nt know of Ted at the time. The two piece combo would be ideal for anyone wanting to do this mod today, as the hubs require some machining.

There are no places to read the specs about the Butler brakes. The inner and outer bearings on the Camaro have the same inner diameter dimension as the MGB stub axle/bearings. So the Camaro bearings would fit right on to the MGB. However the the distance between the inside and outside of the Camaro bearing as installed in the rotor are about roughly *3/16" wider then the MGB. (* will find out and confirm this exact dimension.) Butler's cure was to machine the rotor hub inner bearing recess deeper by the roughly *3/16". to align the plane for proper bearing/seal fit.

The rotors on mine (yours) are different. I did not machine the inner recess of the Camaro hub. I worked a couple of doors down from Berry Bearing (now known as Motion Industries) and found a bearing set that was thinner. However, I ended up having to machine the outer bearing recess roughly 1/8" deeper so that the castelled nut would be deep enough for the cotter pin to fit the hole in the axle. Thinking about this now it may have been easier to change the outer bearing to a thinner one too and eliminate the machining. I don't know why I did'nt take this approach. It may be worth looking into now, as there are so many bearing combinations available from bearing suppliers.

The caliper/bracket is not a modification I would consider doing today even though the caliper is still available for about $75.00 from NAPA. Have other MGB guys created brackets to fit multi-piston calipers to the Bee? The bracket for the caliper was modified by Butler Racing. Caliper and bracket were 1974 Dodge Dart 400.

The correct studs should be fairly easy to find, Max.

--->The correct studs should be fairly easy to find, Max.

O-kay... So, why didn't we?    The car has smaller studs front then rear.    I assumed (first mistake!) this must have been from some PITA factor...  ?

There IS one stripped stud in the LF already.  (Found this trying to take the wheel off.  Must have been from airbag issues....)   So, we'll have to do this at some point.  

Alas, I have little time to make this right before the Conference TOMORROW.  IF the lugnuts don't go well, this will force my hand...   :-/   (I already had to overnight the thread inserts as it was.  :-(  )

Thanks for the info on Hubs.    I'll take a look tonight, see about making a plan for the future.  

FYI, new Jag lugnuts are $6/each, so another $60 to get nice ones when we swap lugs.