Classic conversions 4 link with 8.8

[rkas3882]

I have bought Bill's 4 link and I have a ford 8.8 rear....problem is the supplied u bolts won't fit and the 3" u bolts that fit the 8.8 are spaced too wide and are too thick to fit into the bolt pattern in Bill's kit. What did you guys do who are using an 8.8?

[psmg]

Randy, Why don't you call Bill, he's always available and more than willing to help.

[rkas3882]

I would, but it's Sunday....trying to get moving on this .

[Jim Stabe]

Call him anyway, I'm sure he'll pick up. He is a really good guy.

[mowog1]

It's been a week.....what is the outcome?

[ex-tyke]

What did you guys do who are using an 8.8...

Mine was one of the earliest kits purchased from Bill - all design shortcomings/installation issues were reported back to Bill for design improvements and manufacturing changes.
When I reported that the 8.8 housing diameter required larger u-bolts and corrected hole spacing, it was agreed that the best approach was to provide parts specific for a customers axle (of course, the customer has to advise axle choice) ....not sure if Bill followed through with this idea, though!.
 In my case, a just slotted the existing holes in the top plate to accomodate locally purchased u bolts for the 8.8.

[rkas3882]

Well, my 8.8 has 3 1/4" axle tubes, in order to fit u bolts of the appropriate size I had to slot the holes right out of the mounting pads. I don't really care for the way it is now and may get rid of the u bolts entirely and just weld the brackets to the axle eventually. One thing I noticed is that the bushings seem to have a lot of give when throttle is applied, everything is right. The angle of the front of the brackets where the shocks mount seems that it should be level with weight on the axle, they are still angled up by a large degree. I'll take some pics. It's angled up enough that trying to use the bottom hole for mounting the shock causes the bracket to be touching the shock.

[mowog1]

Mine is the same, Randy....and I agree...the shock mount should be level, but is not. I have a Ford 8" differential.

This kit was also one of the first that Bill produced. I found that the top link on the RH side fouled on the battery box of a rubber bumpered car (as did Graham). Simple fix, though.

[MGBV8]

It looks like that lower shock bracket was intended to be rotated back more on the housing.

[ex-tyke]

......the shock mount should be level, but is not.

The angle of the bottom shock fastener is definitely not perpendicular to the shock body. It's one of those little things that prompted me to make my own complete set of new brackets this Winter.
 In addition to correcting the shock bolt angle, I relocated the rear lower link attachment hole to allow levelling the link (parallel to road), eliminated the lowest shock attachment holes (not required for my chassis height) and thickened up on the u-bolt plate (to prevent plate deformation on tightening u-bolts)




Have put 1000 miles on them so far this year and all is well!

[ex-tyke]

...a couple more showing the differences between old and new.
OLD BRKT


NEW BRKT

[mowog1]

The spring perch prevented a horizontal positioning of the shock mount to the world.

[rkas3882]

I think I will have to remakes lower brackets also, had I known I would have made my own 4 link kit like I was planning to do. I gannet gotten my car aligned on a rack yet but it seems that there is a bit of rear end movement with those bushings on/off throttle. I had some anti tramp bars under my leaf springs  that I had made and I used rod ends. This may have something to do with why there seems to be so much movement now, it was solid before. It does bother me that the shock mount is at such an angle and I cannot use the lower shock mount. Has anyone upgraded their shocks? Much difference? Any other changes made to Bills set up?

[JWD]

Carl said - "It looks like that lower shock bracket was intended to be rotated back more on the housing."

That is exactly how it is designed to be installed.  I assembled everything loosely, adjusted the rear for the correct pinion angle and positioned the brackets so the shock mount was perpendicular and the lower links are parallel to the ground before welding anything up. You can see that everything is level and correct and that the axle bracket is rotated down on the housing.

[JWD]

Rick said "The spring perch prevented a horizontal positioning of the shock mount to the world."

 The spring perch has to be re-positioned/rotated to the rear in order for everything to work properly. Using a spring perch that is welded to the bottom of the housing, parallel to the ground will cause the problems noted above. It's easier to move the perches than make new brackets.

[mstemp]

Having still not installed my kit, it looks like the bottom brackets were welded incorrectly then. Has anyone pointed this out to Bill?
Those that are making a new diff can do as Jim did, weld spring perches after lining everything up first.

[rkas3882]

Well, that's the problem, when I had my 8.8 built the perches were welded so that when they are level with the ground the pinion angle would be correct.  It seems that the brackets made by bill have too much angle where the shock mounts. I  am the the only one that run into this apparently...I thought the mg axle was the same, the perches parallel to the ground and about 1.5-3 degrees up, or whatever that may be. Sent the perches supposed to be parallel to the ground with correct pinion angle? I set the pinion angle and ended up with the lower brackets on too much of an angle.

[mgb260]

Randy, The stock MGB axle is 5 to 6 degree up on the pinion. You can get angle shims or rotate the mount to level.

[ex-tyke]

Having still not installed my kit, it looks like the bottom brackets were welded incorrectly then. Has anyone pointed this out to Bill?

When adding the spring perches to my newly shortened 8.8, I welded the perches on at the same angle as the stock MG axle....after all I kept the stock leaf springs at that time.
With all due respect to Bill's design of the 4-link, customers perch angles are not going to match and his lower link bracket can't be expected to be correct for all!
Leaving the bottom shock bolt askew didn't seem to compromise the installation in my case ...or you could use wedge shims as suggested.

[mstemp]

Graham,

Agreed but if the perches are all installed for 5-6 Deg of pinion angle, the brackets should line up correctly. Looking at the attached photo taken from the British V8 article, Bills test mule looks off as well. As you stated it most likely causes no issues in operation but could be easily fixed by Bill on subsequent manufacturing batches.

[JWD]

Mike, It appears that the suspension is unloaded and hanging free in that picture. Look at the angle of the lower link. I think everything would line up fine if it was sitting on the ground.

[ex-tyke]

Agreed but if the perches are all installed for 5-6 Deg of pinion angle, the brackets should line up correctly

Last night I measured the shock lower mount bolt angle on Bill's original parts - it measured exactly 10 degrees using the u-bolt plate as the datum....if the orginal perches are at 5-6 degrees, then the only way that could account for the other 4 degrees is the installed shock angle.(which I don't believe is 4*) .....for the heck of it, I'll measure that tonight!

[Chris Lindh]

I have bought Bill's 4 link and I have a ford 8.8 rear....problem is the supplied u bolts won't fit and the 3" u bolts that fit the 8.8 are spaced too wide and are too thick to fit into the bolt pattern in Bill's kit. What did you guys do who are using an 8.8?

I had the same issue, although a Ford 8"; my axle tubes are 3".  I ordered and received these u-bolts in 3" inside width, 5" inside length: http://www.dsuban.com/3-8-inch-dia-u-bolt-round-p1032.html  The quality is good, the u-joints are a little larger than 3" wide and point inward slightly, which helps fit them into the bracket: