How to pick ignition coils (for use w/ MS3 etc.)

[BlownMGB-V8]

Odd about that clip. Could you check for continuity between the fins and the ground lead? I suspect it may just be for static suppression. The driver should be attached to the back side of the heat sink but probably with heat sink grease so the ground there may not be completely reliable.

I am definitely interested in those. Care to share where you bought them and the cost?

Jim

[Moderator]

My quick continuity test seems to agree with your hypothesis, although I didn't take time to look up pin-outs or anything.  

I bought the coils from an eBay store. They have loads more, here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321143697945  Based on date codes, I've no doubt my two sets of four coils are from two different vehicles. (One is dated 2003 and the other 2004.)  The first set I unwrapped looks great. The second... the bracket it a little rusty and a little dinged-up like someone dropped it, but the coils look fine.

[Scott Costanzo]

Curtis

You may need a couple of these if you are using the coil harness as is. These are supposed to be hard to find in a junkyard.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Delphi-Connection-Systems/12047938/?qs=eBuH7aKXikf5rsoeZD%252bhXw==

[Moderator]

Hey, that's VERY helpful! Thank you, Scott. Tracking down connector part numbers can eat a lot of time! That's a MetriPack 150-series connector, so I have terminals and seals for it already. I understand there's a GT-series connector which technically supersedes it and is interchangeable - a generation newer - but I don't have any GT-series terminals.

Coincidentally, yesterday I tracked down a part number for the connector that mates to a Ford Taurus/Windstar V6 cam position sensor. (The same sensor Bill Jacobson and Jim Blackwood used.) Maybe I can save someone else some time: the cam position sensor connector part number is 3U2Z-14S411-SMA (a.k.a. WPT-579), although technically it's superseded also. I believe the newer version is 3U2Z-14S411-SLA (a.k.a. WPT-759). I need to do a little more research to make sure I get the correct terminals, locks, etc. --- and bringing things back around, I believe these are the same two-wire connectors that most commonly mate to Ford coil-on-plug ignition coils.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I wonder if there would be any chance that we could start a library section with things like these part numbers? I know there are a number of hard to find items that I could contribute sources for.

Jim

[Moderator]

Looks like Ballenger has the Delphi/Packard connectors AND the Ford connectors, AND they have "kits" with terminals and seals too!  http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/index.php/cPath/109_219?osCsid=i99uvgvc2lip28k611m768nuh4

[Scott Costanzo]

Nice find Curtis. I actually looked pretty hard when I was at the junkyard for a couple of these but had no luck. Those who are doing their own wiring for an LS1 swap might find this useful. It's where I got the part # for the coil plug..

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/573725-connector-id-pn-interchanges.html

[DiDueColpi]

Just to mix things up a little.
I found these today.



I just positioned them on and old Range Rover engine and the fit is near perfect.
A simple bracket off of the valve cover would mount them easily.
The coils are from a Suzuki V6 the 4 cyl ones are similar.
They are a logic level coil and are quite small.
The part # is 33410-77E2 and they are available new locally for $39.19 can.

This last shot is on a 2" grid which makes the unit just over 6" long.
The boot is very flexible and will tolerate a 45' bend easily.
Hope that helps somebody.
Cheers
Fred

[mgb260]

Fred, I think that's what Jim B is looking for.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Very nice Fred. You do come up with some really good finds. Like the mounting also. Of course they are not exactly pretty, but they aren't butt ugly either. I guess a section from a stainless tube might make a nice cover.

Do you think the boot is flexible enough that you could pull it off the plug without unbolting the coil?

Jim

[DiDueColpi]

You probably could pull the boot off with the coil in situ.
The top 2/3 of the boot is rigid due to the noise suppressor, but it removes from the coil very easily.



It actually looks like you could toss the boots and fit some of Toyota's funky 5mm plug wires if you needed more versatility.
But I think your idea for a stainless cover (ooooooh, shiny) is the way to go.
I would bend something up out of sheet and underhang the coils so that the cover is the mounting.
Then polish the #$%@*&&^ out of it to keep the racoons happy!

[Moderator]

Those Suzuki/Mitsubishi coils certainly are cute! I sniffed around online for a little while trying to get pin-outs and/or a schematic but I didn't find anything. I'd like to confirm that the Suzuki coils have internal drivers, because I understand some OEMs spec 3-pin connectors on coils whether they have an internal driver or not. (In other words, they leave one terminal unconnected.)  Anyone got a Suzuki repair manual handy?

[DiDueColpi]

No prob Curtis.
Pin 1 is ground.
Pin 2 is the trigger. ( gate power is most likely 5 volts. but don't have a spec. handy.)
Pin 3 is power.(12 volts)
Cheers
Fred

[Moderator]

I was intrigued by the Suzuki coil suggestion, so I bought one. I like it a lot! It's handsome and quite compact. I think it might be a great solution for many engines. Frankly, I don't like it for mine and I've decided to stick with Plan A. Here's why: on a Buick/Rover V8 cylinder head the two middle spark plug holes are angled toward each other. The paths of the #3 and #5 spark plug wires intersect. Now imagine four coils mounted in a row ~4" above the spark plugs. IMHO, there's not really enough room for a comfortable installation of the two middle coils. On a Ford 302 where spark plugs are spaced further apart, I think these coils might fit MUCH, MUCH more neatly.

Want to check out the Suzuki coil option for yourself? I'll list my Suzuki 33410-77E2 ignition coil in the classified section!  

I've sketched up a coil mounting bracket for the LS2-Truck coils and bought material and hardware. It's rather elaborate... but I'm getting excited about it.

[WernerVC]

Curtis,
I just found 2 coil sets and ignition module for my Rover megasquirt conversion at the local Pick-n-Save.. I have a MS unit that I build in 2004. Don't know what version it is. I assume it is the MS ll.
what version do you have and what software have you uploaded to get the sysyem working. I tried DIY-autotune but could not figure out how to
Need help !

[Moderator]

Sounds exciting!

I bought an "MS3-Pro" ECM. It came factory-built and pre-programmed, so I got off to a quick and easy start.

We should probably start a separate thread so people with more knowledge of MS2 will be sure to see. I don't know anything about getting an MS2 up and going.

[WernerVC]

Curtis.
Looking at the single coils you got, they look very well the same as the ones that Henk-Jan-Vonk used in his V8 transformation.
I have 2 Ford coil packs that feed 4 spark plugs each. Plan to mount them on each inner fender so the spark plug wires will be very short.  Just need to make 2 new mounting brackets.
Werner

[DiDueColpi]

Hi Werner.
The Ford coil packs are a "wasted spark" setup.
That means that for most v8's you are going to have plug wires going to both banks of the engine from each coil pack.
Wasted spark coils need to pair up cylinders that are directly opposite in the firing order.
Not really a problem but possibly not what you wanted.
Positioned well, they look nice and they can be made to do anything that a coil per cyl can do.
Cheers
Fred

[WernerVC]

Fred and Curtis,
I want to start with an easy and proven system as recommended in MS manuals. If the system works and is well tuned then I might change to a nicer looking setup.
My MS system is the V2.2. Right now my budget doesn't allow changing to MS3-pro but might consider it for the future.
My biggest problem now is to find the right software.
Werner

[DiDueColpi]

The megamanual will walk you right through it.
It looks daunting but break it down into small bits and it starts to make sense.
Just stay away from the forums that thrive on the "techno talk" most of them have no idea of what is going on.
Cheers
Fred

[DiDueColpi]

Hey Curtis,
I just dug my TR8 out of storage and had to try the suzi coils out.
They will fit pretty well but I'm trying really hard to keep this one stock.

[BlownMGB-V8]

That looks pretty good Fred. I'm still about a year away from going to MS-III but that could be the answer.

Jim

[Moderator]

Nope. It can't be done. It'll never work. (If I give that kind of feedback, you'll get motivated to prove me wrong. Right?)



Well... here's a quick snapshot to show what I've decided to do instead.



Quite a lot of work remains... Details to follow.

[mgb260]

Wow! Curtis, You never cease to amaze me! I would have never thought of a mount like that, and I've been accused of thinking outside the box.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Guess that is your surprise, huh? Looks pretty good and definitely tricky. Should go well with your custom plenum.

Jim