BOP engine weight....again!

[roverman]

In the final analysis, aluminum is "still" 1/3 the weight of iron/steel.  This also lends a different sound signature to the Rover, some say more pleasant . Onward, roverman.

[302GT]

I saw a post somewhere showing a Rover 4.6 weighed the same as a Ford 302 with aluiminun heads, but I have not been able to find it again. The poster claimed to have weighed several Ford and Rover engines...

But some things to consider:

Except for the block, the materials in a 302 with aluminum heads are the same as for a Rover v8.
The bare block weight of a later 302 is 124 pounds.
The Rover block has substabtial iron parts: cylinder liners may be comparable in weight to the thin wall Ford cast cylinders; the cross bolt Rover main caps are substantially heavier than the Ford main caps, the Rover block has more material being that the block is a "deep skirt" design while the Ford block ends at the crank center line, the aluminum walls of the Rover block are thicker than those of the Ford block, and there is a layer of aluminum around the cylinders while there is no comparable structure in the Ford.
A Dart aluminum block for a Ford 302 weighs 90 pounds (also costs over $4,000).
I believe the Rover crank is substantially heavier rthan the Ford crank (longer, longer stroke, internally balanced).

Therefore, it seems reasonable that the Ford 302 and the Rover 4.6 are close in weight. But a 215 is probably lighter. Also, the new Ford Boss 302 block (push rod version) is substantially heavier than 124 pounds.

[roverman]

OK, I'll "fess", this why my rover block is lighter than the iron ford block....I cool it with liquid helium ! Yes, it's heavier than a balloon, but you get the idea ?   roverman.

[Dan Jones]

> I saw a post somewhere showing a Rover 4.6 weighed the same as a Ford 302 with
> aluiminun heads, but I have not been able to find it again. The poster claimed
> to have weighed several Ford and Rover engines...

I don't believe it.  I've got both Rover 4.6L and Ford 5.0L short blocks here
that I can weigh but just lifting them to move them around the shop, the Ford is
heavier.  I also have aluminum and iron Ford small block heads that can be weighed
but the aluminum SBF heads are heavier than their Buick/Rover counterparts.

> The bare block weight of a later 302 is 124 pounds.
> The Rover block has substabtial iron parts: cylinder liners may be comparable
> in weight to the thin wall Ford cast cylinders; the cross bolt Rover main caps
> are substantially heavier than the Ford main caps, the Rover block has more
> material being that the block is a "deep skirt" design while the Ford block ends
> at the crank center line, the aluminum walls of the Rover block are thicker than
> those of the Ford block, and there is a layer of aluminum around the cylinders
> while there is no comparable structure in the Ford.

A friend weighed a bare cross-bolted Rover 4.0L/4.6L sand cast block at 63 lbs.
With caps and bolts it was less than 73 lbs.  The die cast 2 bolt main 215
block is lighter still.

It is possible to build two different Rover/Buick V8's that differ by
50 lbs or more but, if you do you homework, you can come up with an engine
that's under 300 lbs ready-to-go.  Nearly everything is lighter than a SBF.
A bare Buick 300 head is 13 lbs (18 lbs assembled).  The die cast GM bellhousing
is 6 lbs.  My Huffaker intake is 11 lbs.  My aluminum flywheel is 20 lbs
lighter than the original iron flywheel (31 lbs versus 11 lbs).  A mini
starter saves a fair bit, especially compared to the iron-nose GM starter
(a Mcleod starter is 9 lbs versus 17 lbs for the aluminum nosed GM starter
and the iron nose GM starter is even heavier).  The die cast Buick blocks,
bellhousings, and heads are all lighter than their sand cast Rover
counterparts.  For instance, the die cast GM bellhousing is 6 lbs lighter
than the sand cast aftermarket bellhousing I have.  A Carter AFB is a
bunch lighter than the iron base Rochester 4GC or the Rover twin carb or
fuel injection set-ups.  The thin gauge TR8 stainless steel headers are
lighter than any of the cast iron manifolds.  The stamped steel GM valve
covers are lighter than the Rover or Offy cast aluminum ones.  Buick
valve train is lighter than Oldsmobile (aluminum versus steel rockers),
the GM balancers are lighter than the Rover ones.  The brackets on the
Rover V8 are aluminum and the TR8 uses the small GM rotary A/C compressor.
You can lighten the crank and reciprocating assembly, port the heads, etc.
It all adds up.

One of these days, I'll weigh everything out and make a big list.
For now, here's a few numbers:

 Aluminum Buick V8 (215 and 300) weights:
 Mcleod mini starter - 9 lbs
 GM 215 starter - 17 lbs
 Bare aluminum Buick 300 head - 13 lbs
 complete Buick 300 head (shafts, stands, rockers, bolts, plugs) - 18 lbs
 Buick die cast bellhousing - 6 lbs (without access cover)
 aftermarket sand cast bellhousing  - 12 lbs
 Buick iron flywheel - 31 lbs
 stroker iron flywheel (modified Monza V8, use with Buick 300 crank) - 23 lbs
 aluminum flywheel - 11 lbs
 TR8 alternator - 12 lbs
 Buick 300 exhaust manifolds - 23 lbs (pair, 11 and 12 lbs individually)
 Buick dual plane 4 bbl intake - 11 lbs
 Edelbrock 2x2bbl dual plane intake - 10-11 lbs
 Edelbrock Performer Rover dual plane 4 bbl intake 13-14 lbs
 Huffaker single plane 4 bbl intake- 11-12 lbs
 Timing cover w/ oil pump - 5 lbs
 Buick 300 crank with balancer - 49 lbs

The earlier Ford 302 cranks that use a 28.2 oz-in balance factor are around 40 lbs without
a balancer.   The later 5.0L cranks that use a 50 oz-in are maybe 4 lbs lighter.
The aftermarket stroker cranks are generally heavier.

Dan Jones

[roverman]

Thanks Dan, concise as always. This reflects back to that British born ,"How to build a V8 MGB". The subliminal and otherwise warnings that if you increase front end weight, youll likely drive right off a cliff,(sort of).  Zillions of cars have been built with less than 50/50 weight distribution, ie. TR7/8s, Sunbeam Tiger, etc, etc. They all seem to handle quite well, once they are properly sorted, suspension, wheel/tire wise. Some would contend, you could even plop a 455 monster Buick, into one and "still" have good handling. Engine weight is only part of the succesful build formula.

[Moderator]

50/50 static distribution isn't a very ambitious goal... 50/50 is where you want to be under heavy braking, right? I hope to get my GT down to 2000# wet, even with heavy accessories such as a full roll cage. Much more doable with a Buick 215!

[MGB-FV8]

The Rover engine needs all the help it can in being lean and mean in order to keep up with Ford muscles; OMG, did I really say that?!?!?!