Engine height and angle pinion, position advice

[63BlueMGB]

Hello all, I have been working on my X-member and engine mounts the past couple of weeks (as time allows). Anyway I mocked everything up this afternoon because I wanted to see how much more I needed to cut on the firewall,  but some things dont look right in my opinion. I am running EFI and I know that is part of my issue and I am doing a conversion on a early CB so I know that presents a challenge itself. I had planned to modify the hood with the EFI but I didn't think it was going to stick up as high as it did. I also noticed my pinion angle was at about 7 degrees, the car is jacked up to about a 3 degree angle so i think that is okay but wasnt sure. I thought I got some better pictures to show the angles but they didnt turn out as good as I hoped

As I looked at my setup and started looking how much room I had to move it around. I realized I am out of room unless, I do some major cutting on the firewall which I do not want to do. The bell housing is at the very top of the transmission tunnel and my oil pan is just above my steering rack. I think that I have the engine at it's best position? I have read about using a later x-member and steering shaft but I am not wanting to due that either. Oh I highly recommend the mock up blocks if anybody is planning on doing a conversion it has been a life saver for me. So I am looking for suggestions that I may have over looked. Any response or questions are welcome. Thanks for any help in advance

[mgb260]

NB, Different Ford V8's have taller or shorter intakes. Can you put a front cover on the plastic block? Steering rack should fit between damper and front cover. You have to trim the foot boxes on both sides of the heater shelf on the chrome bumper car. Even though Geoff has a 78 he trimmed his firewall area where you need to. Top hole is for A/C. Look on his project page. Maybe you can mill both halves of your intake like the Rover guys do to drop it another inch.

[Bill Young]

Set the front of the engine as low as you can and still have enough clearance to change a belt or such, then I usually measure the engine angle from the rear face of the transmission shaft and raise or lower the trans unitl I the angle I want, about 2 to 3 degrees down is in the usual range to allow for good driveshaft alignment and clearance. The pinion flange on the rear axle should match the angle except it should be up from true horizontal. I don't trust intake manifolds to be true to the crank centerline, the transission is.

[rficalora]

Think about spark plug and header bolt access on #'s 4 & 8 too.  You may need to clip a bit more at the corners to make maintenance easier.  Also, check steering u-joint clearance to #8 plug & plug wire; it's tight there.

[kstevusa]

I suspect the angle meter on the intake Plenum will provide a accurate angle to use.  We used the same apporach after checking the oil pan and the block deck on our 5.0L install. I can only verify the Ford 5.0L , no experience with BOPR or GM, etc.  I had only a
1 1/2 degree angle  on each end. I have put 30K EASY* miles on mine and no vibration or problem yet.     The X-Member mod was no problem.  Next time I would just remove the X-Member and do it outside the car. Install the Poly pads when you re-install the unit. The suspension work can be completed while the unit is out also. Much easier to do outside except removing the tie rod ends.  
SAFETY FASTER!                                                                                       *easy only hit rev limiter 8-10 times!

[63BlueMGB]

Kelly, That is how I did the cross member measurements and angle degree I did it all outside of the car but I put it at a 3 degree pinion angle. When I was doing my mock up I used a jack to put the cross member in place. Outside the car everything looked great but once it was in it just didn't look right. I do have the poly-pads and will be installing them once I have x member painted and suspension reworked (painted, new bushings, etc.)

Rob, I did check what you recommended when I had it mocked up. I am going to have an issue when with the steering u-joint, I am researching my options on that and I had planned to cut some more of the firewall so nothing was touching and room to set stuff in. Any suggestions on steering. I have read about doing the later steering u joint but want to stick with what I got but just modify the steering rack or shaft kinda like what Paul S. did on his 302 conversion.

[MGBV8]

I would definitely go for a more compact u-joint.

[mgb260]

I like what Geoff did with the two u-joints and vibration damper.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Having experienced a steering shaft coming disconnected at speed, (and lived to tell about it) I will never accept anything but the most secure connections in all of the steering components. Those installations (and we've all seen them) which rely on nothing more than a couple of grub screws with lock nuts to keep the pieces together just give me the willies. I want a bolt through the shaft, or at the very least one captured in a groove so that unless the nut comes clear off and the bolt wiggles out on the ground it ain't goin' nowhere.

Jim

[classic conversions]

Pinion angle is best measured and the damper. If no damper is installed in the engine, then measure the engine angle at the manifold carb base. It should read 3-4 degrees down.

Next measure the axle angle by placing the angle finder on the yoke on the differential. It should read 3-4 up add another 2 degrees up.
That will help during compression of the suspension and it will also improved traction.

In theory, you will be making two parallel lines between the engine angle and the differential angle.

All of the measurements should be done on a level floor.

If you are going to use a double D or single D shaft just follow the installation instructions and everything will be just fine.
Use lock tite on the securing screws and lock nut.

[classic conversions]

Notice the turnbuckles in front of engine and rear of engine.

That is what is nice about our new V8 mounts, they are adjustable to set the pinion angle.

NO, those turnbuckles are not the motor mounts. The bottom picture on the previous post shows side to side. Floor is level.
The first picture shows 3 degrees down angle on the engine.
If you are using the stock rear suspension......MGB has 7 degrees up on the axle, then 3 or 4 on the engine is ok.
Not a valid attachment ID.

[Dan B]

"Having experienced a steering shaft coming disconnected at speed, (and lived to tell about it) I will never accept anything but the most secure connections in all of the steering components.."

This!


Dan B

[kill r b]

63Blue, Getting the correct angle can be difficult with engine swaps of different heights and width. Make sure your rear flange at the differential is at 3 degrees before you start pitching the engine. You'll know later if you get it wrong because you'll get a drive line drone that resembles a vibration. Sometimes you have to make serious sacrifices to achieve the correct angle. Good luck to you.

Dann  BCC

[63BlueMGB]

If anyone is interested I finally found out my engine pinion angle problem and hopefully it will help someone in the future. I do not know if it is the same on all CB and RB cars but the crossmember sits at an angle of about (10 degrees) when bolted to the car. My engine mounts are mounted to the crossmember and when I was doing my engine mounts and angle I did it outside of the car on a flat surface because it was easier to get to everything and I was in the process of redoing and painting the front end. So after checking and rechecking everything I finally checked the engine mounts and they where sitting at 10 degrees. I didnt check them first because I checked them multiple times when it was on the ground and I was positive that I had those set correctly. With the crossmember bolted to the car I adjusted my motor mounts and now they are sitting level and engine pinion angle looks to be 2-3 degrees. So I had my first ahhhaaaaa moment in this build and I am sure that there will be many more. Hope this helps with anybody mounting there engine mounts to the crossmember

[classic conversions]

Glad that you have corrected your pinion angle. It is critical to have the correct angle for various reasons.

That is one of many reasons why our mounts kits V6 and V8 are adjustable.

3-4 degrees will work just fine, remember that the rear axle in the MGB has 6-7 degrees up this is to compensate for loads and axle movement. Yes a bit up of an angle is also good for traction. One of many reasons why the our 4 link rear suspension has pinion angle adjust ability and other adjustments.