Tube shock question

[mgbrv8]

For those of you that have bought or have made your own tube shock kit I have some questions. What length shocks do you need for the front and rear and what configurations have you all used. I see the prices of the kits out there and it seems very simple to fabricate but I need to know what length of the shocks or what application of shocks I need. I want to make them for my 77 my 68 and 72 roadsters. Any advice,links, pictures or help of any kind would be greatly appreciated. Thank you gentlemen.


Dave

[mgb260]

Late 70's-early 80's Dodge Colt rear shocks used front and back. Order of stiffness KYB,Monroe Sensetrac,Gabriel non-gas. Others will know part #s. Rear is easy, bottom spring mounts are switched and turned upside down. Don't need the top bracket,just use forward lever shock mount hole with washers and spacer. Front is mounted on side of lower A arm on bottom with backing plate,top mount uses 4 bolts of lever shock mounts. Must remove lever shock mount valve,the lever shock is still used as upper A arm. See picture in Moss catalog. I have a better design for the front I'm working on  with 67-69 Camaro,83-92 S-10 front shock straight up through the coil spring. Bottom mount bolts to spring pan,upper mount is new top plate that replaces the Lever shock with mount that looks like the Mustang II. Can use stock lever arms or custom made from lower arms. Later on Tubular upper and lower A arms. Inexpensive but still MGB geometry. For a ball joint modern front suspension look to Bill Guzman (Classic Conversions) or Ted Lathrop(Fast Cars).

[MGBV8]

Looking forward to that one, Jim!

[Moderator]

My rear set-up is just as Jim described, using Monroe part number 5877ST ('84-'88 Dodge Colt.) It's a bit harsher than ideal, in my opinion.


I think this write-up shows a particularly clever way to do the front... http://www.britishv8.org/MG/HenkJanVonk.htm

[Bill Young]

I personally am not a fan of most tube shock conversions other than those that include a new suspension system such as that offered by Bill Guzman and others. Most tube shocks are not designed for the MG and are at best a compromise as far as shock rating goes, even those that are adjustable. Most wind up being set at or near the softest setting in the rear which is hardly in the prime area of their design. On the front unless you get a complete new suspension you have to retain your lever shocks as the upper control arms and need to run some oil in them to keep the shafts lubricated. Removing the valves helps, but you still have some resistance there that you are then adding your tube shock to. Not the ideal situation. I've heard from several guys that using good rebuilt lever arm shocks from Peter Caldwell at World Wide Auto Parts is better in their opinion to the tube conversions. I run a home built tube conversion in the rear and Peter's lever arms up front, and if I didn't have the panhard rod and traction bar mounts incorporated into the shock mounts I'd go back to levers in the rear as well now that I've tried his rebuilt units on the front. I used rear shocks from a VW bug on my car, about the same weight range as the MG and the length works out pretty close to what is needed. The shock eyes are metric so metric bolts needed on the mounts or change the bushings for standard 1/2" mount bolts.

[pspeaks]

This will be of absolutely no help to anyone what so ever and a little embarrassing to admit, but I'm going to share my story anyway.  In 1980 I was in the "MG Classic" MG club in Virginia Beach Virginia and one of the members had a fabrication company, at least that's what he called it.  We made up a few sets of the conversion brackets like you mentioned, simple to do and install, and I installed a set on my 72.  I used VW Type III shocks in the back and 1952 Chevy pick-up shocks on the front and they still work like a champ.  A little more modern technology might be in order now that a few years have passed and I've upgraded to a V8.  Thanks for the info on what to look for before I put mine back on the road.  Now you can all have a good laugh.

Paul

[BlownMGB-V8]

I converted to coil-overs at the rear by installing a bolt-in Jag IRS and the difference in ride and handling is phenomenal. But before that I had both lever and tube shocks and I took the tube shocks off in order to go back to the lever shocks. They just work much better in my opinion, and are fully tunable. In fact I understand you can now get replacement valves which include a knob for changing the settings. With that option I just can't understand why anyone would want to downgrade their car to tube shocks. Change the oil, change the setting, but why change out something that works better than the replacement?

On the front I also feel the lever shocks offer the best solution unless you are willing to swap out the entire front suspension and pay for the privilege. Plus if you retain the lever shocks it enables you to replace the coil springs with an air ride suspension, removing unsprung weight, improving the ride and handling, and get adjustability in the ride height all at the same time. Perfect for steep driveways.

JB

[burner1]

I removed 2 leafs and made a simply coil over conversion which changed the handling of the rear night and day. Huge improvement of the rear end behavior:

http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/coil/coil.htm

[pspeaks]

I too have a driveway issue and I have seriously considered air suspension for ride height selection among other reasons.  I know while I've been satisfied with the tube shocks, my setup could be better.  I retained the front arm type shocks and just removed the metering valves letting the tubes do all the work.  The rear arm shocks are hiding in a box somewhere in the attic I think!

Paul

[ex-tyke]

I removed 2 leafs and made a simply coil over conversion

COS is a great approach!
     .......and, I hope, you added a panhard rod after removing the leaf springs.

[mgbrv8]

Now air ride that's an interesting alternative I like that.  And could people explain more about using different fluids in the shocks for different results, maybe some examples and what weights of oil have you all used??

Dave

[burner1]

Graham I already had a panhard rod but frankly the 2 small and stiff leafs did little to locate the axle.

[Bill Young]

David, if you're refering to using different weight oils in the lever shocks the word from Peter is "Don't" He recommends only 20 weight hydraulic fluid or motorcycle fork oil in the shocks. Anything heavier and you risk internal damage to the shock. If you need more or less shock action then there are various valves you can try and also Peter makes a fully adjustable shock if you need that much adjustment.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I've run everything from 5 wt to 50 wt oil in combination with stock and Huffaker's competition valves. In the end I settled on the competition valves and dextron-II ATF. If you check with the racers they also will have tried many, many combinations, in most cases settling on one or two combinations that they like the best. Many types of oil will work, the three concerns being seal compatibility, foaming, and wear. Sticking with motorcycle fork oil I've never had a problem with any of those. The Dextron-II is an inexpensive option but is too light with stock valving in my opinion.

Jim

[crashbash]

So with Burner1's setup was axle location a real problem even with panhard?  Solution?                    dave bash

[burner1]

Dave I am not sure what your question is. The 2 leaf springs are short so it doesn't effect axle location. I already had the panhard rod in the car so it was never part of the process. I will tell you with my sway bar going to the rear it was out of the way. I tink later if not most other cars have a forward sway bar and I think the arms might get in the way.

[crashbash]

Gary you said that you already had a panhard but the 2 small and stiff leafs did little to locate axle.  It sounded like axle location was a problem.  Maybe you just meant the axle location was solid but these leafs weren't contributing much.  I have liked every rear tube shock conversion that I have done whether I used brackets or just one of the bolt holes to locate top of shock.    

I currently have a narrowed pontiac firebird limited slip,  3:3/1 I think, discs, stock B bracketing, going into a "79 rdst with the stock sway bar on top in front.  I had been thinking about adding GT leaf spings,  this is something I had done to a MGC rdst and liked. I have a panhard rod to install and was going to install anti tramp bars.  It sounds like you need to throw all these things at the rear when adding all this hp.  

 I like the idea of your option as it removes some weight and adds adjustabilty to the mix. I have never really had a problem with stock MGB/MGC suspensions it just seems like you could add some of these modern components and improve what you have.  How long have you been driving with this rear suspension and are you happy with it?

Has anyone tried Moss Europe's parabolic leaf srings?

[Bill Young]

David, if it's in the budget then I'd recommend you take a look at the coil over 4 link rear suspension sold by Bill Guzman at Classic Conversions. Everyone that I've heard from that's tried it loves it and it's not too much more expensive that what you intend to add to your car with the upgraded rear springs and the other locating devices.

[burner1]

The panhard rod was somehting I did long before I did the coil over conversion or before changing a leaf. I stepped up in tire size and the tires are close to the fender; close enough I cannot get a finger in between. I figured if I autocrossed the car it would be a good idea. I have autocrossed it and never touched a fender.

I have put 3,000 miles on it. I have about 2,000 miles on the coil over conversion.

I live around coal mines. The road in and out is paved but is wavier then....it's bad with dips and bumps.

The problem with the leaf springs on a stock MG is they are mounted past their parabolic arch whcih means they don't do much till the snap back from over extention. The first half of suspension travel is darn near usess then it all comes in at once.

With the coils, it feels a lot more like a car should in the rear. It travels up and down with the front in a lot more congruent manner. It has really tamed the dreaded coal mine roads.

On top of that, getting MG's to ride level left to right was always a crap shoot. Since these are adjustable it's no problem.

I did try stiffer springs but the ones listed on the page were far better.

[crashbash]

Gary have you got any of those pretty shock mount brackets left?  I like this solution and am ready to order shocks and coil overs from Summit.  Through your above link Summit lists # coil overs availble as 10-100, 10-150, and 10-200.  Did say you went to the 125#? or am I confusing that with something else. thanks

[burner1]

I could dig up the old file and make more but I would have to ask

what year is your car
How is your sway bar mounted. I had a couple people look at doing it and their sway bar was mounted different then mine and was in the way.

I see why you are confused. I just read my page and it does say I used the 125. I need to go back and see what I did. It's been a while. I thought I switched back tot he lighter one but that's not what that says.

[ex-tyke]

A typical rear coil over spring rate for a MGB would be in 180 - 200 lb/in range.....GT's might go to 220lb/in.

[burner1]

This is in addition to the remaining leaf.

[DC Townsend]

If it would make it more worth your while, I'd take a set of those brackets as well. Great idea.

[crashbash]

Anyone know if there is a problem mounting tube shocks on the later ('79) MGB rear axle with the factory rear sway bar?