Automatic Transmissions

[BlownMGB-V8]

Oh, not much. Maybe 500 max.

JB

[BlownMGB-V8]

My 6 speed transmission came in yesterday. Here it is with the bellhousing removed:



Below it is sitting next to the case of my 2004r. Not much difference in the size, but notice the width of the lower part of the case. Obviously it will be a much better fit in the MGB transmission tunnel and should go in without any modifications at all. The bellhousing will have to be adapted to the BOP pattern of course (BOPR in the case of Dan B's TR-7 upgrade). The torque converter and wiring harness should be here within a few days. Converter spacing will determine the best way to handle the match-up.



I will be developing this swap with an eye towards making a kit available.

JB

[mgb260]

Cool,Jim. Hey, I told you, weird 3 bolt CV thingy! I wonder if the AW4/A340 bellhousing would bolt up?

[BlownMGB-V8]

I'd say there'd be a good chance of it. How would be the best way we could find out?

I'll probably have to order the driveshaft just for the coupler. But first I need to figure out which TCM I need.

JB

[pcmenten]

Jim B., would you post a picture of the transmission end of the bellhousing? Perhaps with a tape measure in the shot to use for measurement? When I get home, I'm going to look at the Rover bellhousing to see if the trans end looks similar.

Edit; never mind. I see the bell in the first picture. I'll improvise for measurements.

[flitner]

Jim,
 I found this while surfing the net last night, I dont know what the price ranges are but it seems you have a way with vendors as with the Roadmaster!
Hope it helps!
John

http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/overdrive_conversions.htm

[BlownMGB-V8]

Paul, the center hole (appears concentric with the shaft) is just a bit larger than the pump and measures 8-7/16" diameter. What size hole is in the British bellhousing and is there enough meat to go out to that size? (Wouldn't that be cool?)

John, I'll try to review that site this evening, what exactly were you pointing out?

JB

[mgb260]

Here is a pic of the Isuzu bell(GM 60 degree V6, 3800 V6,Caddy 4.9 V8).

[flitner]

Didnt mean to leave that out.
They have TCMs for many applications and might be able to set you up with what you are looking for.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Thanks for that info John. I sent them an e-mail. It's a good looking controller but not cheap at about $800. (more than I paid for the tranny, but the two together still aren't a bad deal) I also sent an inquiry to Glen at Glen's Garage to see what the MegaSquirt boys have been up to. (I know they've controlled the 4L60E) If he's current that'll be quicker and easier than searching their forum for news. If anyone hears anything, please pass it along.

JB

[flitner]

Not a problem!
That is a little steep, from what I saw having the capabilities to have a paddle shift setup and run in auto mode would have its benifits for autocross and street driving was very cool!
Does that unit (Trans) have internal pressure sensors and turbine speed sensors as does the Allison units?

[mgb260]

Jim, Lots of bellhousings for Jeep AW4 4.0 six  on  car-part.com for $60-$120. If that will fit your six speed, the Advance adapter for AMC Turbo 400 to Chevy/Buick motor would be all you need to bolt up to your 340.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I bet there's a bolt-together kit in there somewhere. Torque converter came today and I've been able to do some measuring. The Lexus bellhousing would have to have the engine flange bored to the 340 flex plate size (about 13-1/2" by 1/2" deep), I think I can do that on my lathe. Then about a 5/8" plate needs to be added for the bolt flange to match the 340. I happen to have enough  1 inch thick Mic-6 cast aluminum plate to make that flange. I can turn the OD of the bellhousing flange to give a round mating surface and a square shoulder but that leaves the flange. Does anyone have access to the mechanical drawings of the bellhousing layout for the Buick 340 (BOP) and possibly the 215 (BOPR)? With that I could have the flanges waterjet cut and there it is, an exact part. Just TIG weld it together and face it off on the mill. Barring that, I can make the plate match the 2004r case, approximate the center hole position making it a little oversize, and use 4 setscrews for positioning similar to using a 4 jaw chuck and then weld. I'll give it some more thought.

JB

[roverman]

Jim, Advance Adapters for dim's, or D and D? Buick V6, racing book-by Buick, has BH. dwg.It's not easier to use, Buick, V6/rabbit ears,auto bh., cut-off a junk core, and add plate at back ? Seems like you might use Buick, pump counterbore, for AW. trans. concentricity, in locating, rear welded-on rear adapter plate. Using "transfer", screws/pins to mark new bolt pattern ? roverman.

[mgb260]

Jim, 96 and up 4L60E (Chevy)has a removable bellhousing. Make sure it is 4.3 V6 or earlier V8 pattern. LS is deeper and has top center bolt hole to distinguish. The Chevy pattern shares the dowel locations and 4 bolts with B.O.P. You could use the Trans-Dapt thin Turbo 350/400 adapter($50).The starter pocket would have to be moved to the other side. Here are some pictures of the LS version, note the extra top bolt hole:

[BlownMGB-V8]

Jim, what is the hole diameter? Fitting the A761E to that bell might be pretty easy. To go from SBC to BOP is not hard. Edith's V6 Buick (TR7) is mated to the 700r4 with a simple 1/8" plate and even that may not be necessary as I'm quite sure that 4 bolts out on the bellhousing flange is enough. I suspect they just wanted to cover the hole at the top. I'll take a closer look first chance I get.

JB

[mgb260]

I don't know the diameter, this is the only picture I could find  of the older Chevy V8/4.3 V6 pattern. Those other pictures are of LS version which look close but is deeper and extra bolt hole on top. It looks like a dual bolt pattern ring between the bellhousing and tranny might work.

[roverman]

Jim's and clan. 94-97' Camry and Lexus 300, anybody ? Need tcm ? Hop-up parts ? 4 spd. od. ? Nippon has em. My BH. "may" machine to fit. Thanks, roverman.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Art, my apologies, but sometimes I just don't understand you. Are you suggesting I use a 4 speed transmission instead of the A761E six speed I just bought? Or something else entirely? I'm just a little slow to catch on sometimes.

The news on a controller is mixed. So far I've not found a suitable TCM, although a possibility exists that the late model Toyota Avalon *MIGHT* use a separate TCM. I plan to check with the dealer but I'm not holding my breath. Meanwhile, the MegaSquirt has some potential. Using it's GPIO board (General Purpose In/Out) add on which connects using CAN bus architecture, the guys have been using it to run GM and Ford 4 speed automatics. It has additional capabilities so the main limiting factors seem to be adding the code to run the extra 2 gears and implementing pulse width modulation on the outputs to control shift firmness. neither seems to be insurmountable, provided I can get someone familiar with code to help out, and I already have the MS controller for the engine so I'm part way there anyway. This is handy since MS can also do things like retarding ignition timing when shifting and control the lock up clutch during a shift based on operating conditions. So in a perfect world things will be great! Wonder how close reality can get? I need to find a real good service manual on the A761E.

Nothing new yet on the bellhousing, I've been tied up with vehicle and tractor maintenance and haven't been able to look at it. But the warmer weather coming up should help.

JB

[pcmenten]

Jim, Has the GPIO system been used for transmission control before?

It has been a while since I looked at the MegaSquirt system. I didn't realize they were using CAN hardware, but I shouldn't be surprised because their philosophy has been to use non-proprietary standards.

[roverman]

Jim B. and clan. I'm sorry, I was considering an A541, for my own use, easy to get, here. Just trying to get more info on hop-up/etc. I haven't heard back from "trans tek"?, yet. Little B.O.P.'s came with 2and3 spd. autos, that were problematic. Didn't mean to jack your thread ?  roverman.

[BlownMGB-V8]

That's OK Art, Jim Nichols is also using a similar tranny, I forget the exact number, A340 maybe? Anyway they're all in the same family so I really don't mind at all as long as I can keep from getting confused. Paul, I think they've been using the GPIO board for a year or two now and they have a pretty well developed kit for it (MegaShift).
http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/index.html
Of course they were using a second MS board to do it before that so the development work has been going on for quite awhile. I think practically all of the work has been with the 4L60E though so I'm a little out of the mainstream. The good news is that the 4L60E uses PWM on one of the shift solenoids and also on the line pressure solenoid so it should be almost a cut-n-paste code mod. Plus the output for the line pressure solenoid could perhaps be used for one of the extra gears in the 761. I don't know yet how many shift solenoids it has, it's even possible that could be enough. The level of control in MegaShift is quite sophisticated.

Jim

[mgb260]

Jim, Actually Jeep Cherokee AW4(same as A340) with either Isuzu V6 or Jeep Comanchee 2.5 bell(60 degreeV6/3800/4.9 Caddy) bolt pattern. Maybe you should take a look at the 92-96 Jeep Cherokee controller, I know it is for 4 speed but you may be able to modify.I found a 97 S-10 4.3 V6 (Chevy pattern)4L60E bell like in the picture on car-part.com for $65. I found lots of tranny's and bells like mine, but haven't had time,too short handed where I work.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Some days are just better than others, I guess you have to grab on to the good ones and forget the rest. Today I learned my "6 speed" transmission is a 5 speed, and the junkyard guy is avoiding me. Just what I get for making a distant purchase I guess. So that created a detour and I'm back on the hunt for a 6 speed and will look more closely local. I can make someone a killer deal on a 5 speed though. I guess in the meantime it'll do for a mock-up. I know what you're thinking, why not just go with the 5? Yeah, I'm considering that too. Guess I could upgrade later.

Jim

[roverman]

Jim, Maybe get a partial refund . run the #'s challenged trans and save for what your "really lusting for", u-no, the ( speed ? Meanwhile, you can put a nano-second, spark kill and fool the motor into thinking itsa 6 speed ? Good Luck, roverman.