Did a compression test on my stroked Olds 215, not good. #4 cylinder at 50 lbs.

[Gswest236]

I got the cam and lifters to Delta Cam and dropped the crankshaft at Custom Crankshaft whose owner was interesting to say the least. Top Tip; don't knock on his front door, go around to the back alley where his shop is.

[mgb260]

Scott, I heard he was a character! He does good work though. Did you tell him you want .001 clearance on the mains and .0015 on the rods?

[Gswest236]

Yes I told him 001 on the rods and 0015 on the mains and I mentioned he did this to Jons Crank. He wrote down the info and fingers crossed he gets it right. I explained the motor is stroked and that it was a Buick 300 crank modified to work with the 215 rods and block. I was looking for a business; didn't realize it was a home business.

[mgb260]

Scott, I think you mean the other way around. Did he say he thought it would clean up at .010 or .020?

[Gswest236]

You're right Jim, I mixed it up there,  I actually read it off of a post from you that I printed and showed him so I would know what to ask for. He did say something about 10 and i agreed. My problem is I'm like a blind man asking for something i don't fully understand.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Well then let's just confuse you a little further shall we?
My one and only recommendation when talking about the MGB is to go with the Buick 300 as the engine of choice. The reasons are so many that it's burdensome repeating them every time so let me refer you to the Buick 300 sticky thread on the MGE engine swaps forum. If you don't know where that is you certainly need to find out.
I will repeat a few here however. First off it's a much better engine and more properly matches the vehicle size and weight even using the base engine which was a 2bbl iron head motor at 9:1 CR making 210hp. You can even make money swapping from the BOPR (215) since you can sell the used bellhousing for easily twice what a 300 (BOP) bell costs you. The high nickel block is so much more durable that  running examples of the engine frequently have minimal cylinder wear even now after 60 years. Not infrequent to be able to use one with a simple clean-up.

It can save you a lot of money and give you a much better engine.

BTW, I heard that the original builder of your engine feels that detonation was the cause of your ring breakage, although he wouldn't know who would have been responsible for running it that close to the ragged edge. Apparently the first owner didn't baby the engine, but you never know who might try to advance the timing in an effort to get more mileage out of it.

Jim

[Gswest236]

Thanks Jim for the info, Are the 300 blocks around? I think I'm pot committed to rebuild this motor at this point, but the future might bring a different motor.
Is Ron Hopwood still around?  I'd love to talk to him about the car! As far as running the car hard, I never took it over 3000rpm, never stressed the driveline (no burnouts etc). The guy I got it from Emil Zuccaro (San Diego) has passed so no info available from him. But he only drove it once and had it serviced to the tune of $10,000, then sold it. He forwarded the receipts. It never pinged once while I drove it. But someone could have thrashed it along its life since 2009. And we think it may have sat for a few years in a garage.

[MGBV8]

Comprehensive 300 Buick Build Thread

https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mg-engine-swaps-forum.40/comprehensive-300-buick-build-thread.4463289/

[Gswest236]

I'm starting the first of the oil mods. Watched several videos and I'm a little worried about getting off center on that long one. Of course my luck, the engine hasn't had any of the mods done. Curious about the V6 oil pick up. Which one is recommended? Going out to get the proper 12 inch 1/2" bit and maybe one 2 sizes smaller. The long passage is less than 7/16".

[mgb260]

Scott, you'll be fine. Go 7/16 first then 1/2. Gauge the depth and then tape mark the drill a little shorter. Where the pickup bolts use a 9/16 to chamfer and 5/8 to chamfer that. Do the matching hole in the timing cover 1/2 too. Do this 1/4 hole in the oil pump too. If you aren't using the booster plate you will have to sand the cover to make sure it is flat.


https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7075168&cc=1022252&pt=5576&jsn=647

[mgb260]

The rockauto link above shows the 75-80 V6 pickup first design which is the right length for the 215 pan. I normally drill a little higher than this guy in the middle of the flat area.

[mgb260]

This picture better shows the extra oiling hole:

[Gswest236]

Thanks Jim, Great stuff!. I ordered the V6 oil pickup. I am doing the hone job tomorrow, had a critter under the house that needed dealing with today. So I haven't even pulled the oil pump out of the housing yet. So, thats next.

[Moderator]

Re: Buick 300

...it's burdensome repeating...

I'll bet! Maybe you should give it a rest for a while.

When someone suffers misfortune, frankly I don't think it's very polite to tell them they've got an inferior model engine and they should replace it. Might even drive away people from our community. But since you brought up Buick 300, I'll tell you what I think.

In terms of performance or value, Buick 300 doesn't begin to compare to an LS engine. No contest.

On the other hand, in terms of cool factor the 300 doesn't begin to compare with 215. Again, no contest. Whereas the 215 has a fascinating and unique story, the 300 is just a footnote to the 215 story. The little 215 powered Jack Brabham to a Grand Prix championship in 1966 whereas no other American V8 has ever won a GP. A 215 powered Dan Gurney to Rookie-of-the-Year honors in the Indy 500. The 300 has essentially no racing pedigree at all. The 215 appeared in many other storied cars: Reventlow, McLaren/Elva, Zerex Special, Apollo, several Lotus models, etc. Countless other applications: speed boats, motorcycles, dune buggies. Literally thousands of show cars (e.g. T-buckets) because it's a shiny little gem of an engine.

I disagree with another of your basic premises. The 215 is understressed in an MGB. Back when I built up mine, I was unaware of all the oil mods people talk about now, so I only did the most common sense things: I fitted a new Buick V6 pump and front cover in lieu of worn-out parts and I've run good oil. Nonetheless, my 215 has served me reliably for 34 years. My 215 has powered me across 46 of the United States and two Canadian provinces so far, yet I've never been obliged to service anything below the head gaskets. People on this forum have seen me drive my engine hard, including track days. I've lent it to a lot of people. It's gotten lots of high rpm use. The difference between a sportscar and a muscle car is lightness. The 215 is a proper sportscar engine.

And then there's the availability issue.  GM made about three quarters of a million 215s, and people horded them because they're distinctive. They're not hard to find. Then, consider the Rover variants. Obviously most Rover V8 parts interchange with 215. Rover Discoverys are far more plentiful than 1964 Buick LeMans donors anywhere I've ever lived.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Thank you Curtis, it's good when people offer differing viewpoints. To be fair the 215 isn't a BAD engine though it does have it's flaws and it did get better during Rover's stewardship. The most recent ones were usually quite good although flaws did sometimes appear. My perspective is just that the 300 offers an alternative that in many cases is arguably better. What you've done here of course is back me into a corner where I have to explain myself so thanks for that one. You got me there.

Buick made about half a million 300s so scarcity isn't really that much of an issue, although insisting on the one with the alloy heads makes it much harder to find when the base engine is really the better choice in many ways. Everyone was enamored of the aluminum engine when the weight difference really was so small. Honestly, how much difference does 100lbs make to a 2400lb car? For Curtis quite a lot, but for most of the rest of us hardly anything at all. 310 ft/lbs of torque at 2400rpm however does make a considerable improvement in all around drivability and 210hp is most welcome from an engine that sips regular. How over or understressed the engine is depends entirely on it's state of tune and treatment, but an iron block, even a thinwall one like the Buick is inherently stronger and more durable. As for the LS, how much time and money do you want to spend? Great engine, but not an easy swap. I would also argue that a 300 built to the same standards as an LS can give it a run for it's money. The parts are available to do that. And have you looked at the weight of an LS? They ain't light.

As the bigger sister to the 215 in the Buick stable the differences are fewer than the similarities. Except for the more common BOP bellhousing and generic GM starter mounting (think Chevy SAE mini starter) the blocks are near identical. My opinion is that saying one has a racing history while the other does not might be a bit disingenuous but whatever, the 340 and 350 got all the kudos and the 350 has a pretty rich history so it's kinda similar to saying the 265 or the 307 has no racing history. Yeah maybe but they are still SBCs and are still good engines.

The 300 just happens to fit a particular niche that makes it extremely suitable for the B. Let's discuss deck heights. We all know the 215 is a bolt-in swap after '74.5 and not particularly difficult before that. The 300 does have 9/16" taller decks making it a little taller and wider. I think it comes out to 1/2" and 3/4" but the stock intake's carb flange is reputed to be the same height as the 215's. It also is a bolt-in swap and we've seen stock unmodified hoods on CB cars to prove it. The 340, not so much. With a deck 1-3/16" taller than the 215 it's just too big. So the 300 is the largest engine you can simply drop into an unmodified MGB and bolt up. And where the 215 as well as the Rover variants were well known for a variety of ills all during the line's history, some of which were never remedied during production, the 300 always had a sterling reputation for reliability and durability.

Give me that in a 210hp engine with that much torque that I can buy in good running condition for sometimes as little as $350 and I call that a bargain. That's what I paid for the 'mule' in my car right now and it pulled a perfect leak down test when I bought it about 4 or 5 years ago.

But again, I do respect Curtis' position, he is extremely weight conscious and that hundred pounds makes a real difference to him. For his purposes there is really no other option that I am aware of that would let him have the car he wants. I respect that.

Scott has his own set of criteria and a broken engine. Sometimes the best path forward does not include staying the course, even if it is a fancy schmancy stroker engine. Personally I like stroker engines. I have a 346cid 300 on the engine stand waiting to go in the car. That one will challenge a few LS equipped Bs. Probably won't get every one but that was never the goal anyway.

Jim

[Gswest236]

I appreciate the perspectives offered here. I'm the least knowledgeable in this conversation. But, due to circumstance I have a 215.
That's what's sitting on my engine stand today, so thats what's getting rebuilt. Onward and upward!
Thanks!

[BlownMGB-V8]

No harm in that. Also no harm in reading the 300 sticky thread. It's a pretty good read, I did that again yesterday. Some of what is there does apply to your 215 stroker.

Jim

[MGBV8]

I love the little short stroke 215.  Easy 150-170 hp.  My 215 plus the T-5 is 60 lbs lighter that the 1800 with OD trans.

I do like the variety we have in this group.  It would be a bit boring if we all showed up at the British V8 meet with the same engine.

[Gswest236]

As soon as I went to the long 1/2" bit this happened. I am screwed. I've read you can insert a copper tube to repair but then the hole would have to be even bigger to get the 1/2 " diameter. I thought about trying to keep going with upward pressure, but decided to stop and regroup. If I get it drilled out to the junction at 1/2" can it be repaired (Tig) so to maintain the larger diameter ? I started with 7/16 short bit and gradually got it at 1/2 " Then started with the long bit and immediately drilled thru. Can a machine shop drill this out and repair the carnage/ That's the question.

[mgb260]

Scott, I've always used the short drill bit first and look down with a light every couple inches and you can see the ridge and if you are going straight. when you are all in with the short bit you have a pilot hole to use the long bit the rest of the way. Machine shop can drill a straight hole and install a brass tube and you can have the outside Tigged or you could braze the hole up.

[Gswest236]

Once I got about  5 inches in I thought it would go straight. If the machine shop can get it so the hole is 1/2 inch with an insert, I guess it will be good.

[mgb260]

Scott, maybe you went crooked with the 7/16"? It'll be fine.

[mgb260]

Once they get a straight hole a little under 9/16" a tube like this gives .530 ID.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186431738689?_skw=9%2F16%22+OD+12%22+long+brass+tubing&itmmeta=01JVXDKMG1GFSSXDEH2MKRETAS&hash=item2b68329341:g:In8AAOSw-atmOaS-&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAABAFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cxvcVvTLvf73BqYfo27IWTzEG9cja8Vchx32cyfx30ht%2FT7dUJsSED3OfcYKtmNmkWU8FScNLbND%2FTyA0Vnl01HKCKLkRzk80vSQLOggPSpcfTeIa6i7JumK2yCJW%2FeD%2F1WLPaXIDwYd1tavlJSGDcuxPpjDzt7vmcvUJ7rkSEUOYvdOdBxFEZzktIlAOVVl2A34YZUykFWvhth%2B%2FvdrvummoxKCpFYKmYqAfxe6JZZO9nu8Cgiog6Dk9wf7YyaYJVVfr2OhfUfTh%2FQX6Dvfl9ZZc7h4ahrZ8CWPrhZYlqVdYga0BBA6COQOD8uUe5Sfc%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMksjOrd9l

[BlownMGB-V8]

That's about the worst breakout I've seen and is a great example of why I keep harping on the advisability of using a piloted bit. This is the risk you take when you don't go to the trouble of doing that when all it takes is a little quality time dressing the end of the bit into a pilot that will fit the existing hole. Now you have a problem, and because it broke out to the outside of the block it's a potential oil leak also. Can it be fixed? Yes. Is it a good idea to fix it? Maybe not. Bear in mind you are already at .040" overbore with scratches and you can't go past .060". The former builder of this engine says even .060" is risky. I wouldn't be the one to disagree with that. So you'll end up with dodgy cylinder walls, a dodgy suction galley, and known dodgy threads since it's a 215. I'd start looking for that 300.

Jim

[mgb260]

Jim B, he is only .020 over. He shouldn't have an oil leak since the brass tube would go a ways past the breakout. The shop would reference off the original hole to drill straight. The outside would be Tigged or brazed to seal.