TA Heads for 300, 350 question

[Airwreckc]

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else, but I've looked and can't find a definitive answer.  I am looking to get a set of the TA heads for my 300 block, but I don't see them listed on the TA website.  I see 350 heads and Rover heads.  Is it the Rover heads I need to be asking them for or are there specific heads for the 300 that aren't currently listed on their website?  I read that the production run for these heads is very limited and long lead time, so I want to order some for the future engine work.

Also, a somewhat related question:  Some time ago, I saw a post by Jim Blackwood that bemoaned the lack of a TA head for the 350--and also discussed how good an engine it is.  Since apparently there are now TA heads for the 350, is there any reason to scrap the 300 option (I planned on doing a 350 stroker crank in mine, which I have) and just use a 350 instead?

[Dan Jones]

Yes, the Rover TA heads are the ones that bolt onto Buick 215 and 300 blocks.  Be aware that their combustion chambers are smaller than standard Buick 300 heads.  As I understand it, TA just finished up a run of the Rover heads.  Last I heard, the Buick 350 heads were on back order.  Compared to a Buick 300, the Buick 350 is wider with a taller deck height and different port configuration so may be a tighter fit and not allow you to re-use any Buick 300 parts you already have.

[Airwreckc]

Dan, thanks much.  I've been doing lots of comparisons between the aluminum 300 heads (which I have) and the TA heads.  Obviously lots of different opinions, but I think I'm leaning towards the TA heads as they apparently flow better—and if I stick with the 300, I'll be stroking it.  I did read a nice write up by Jim Blackwood from several years back (before the 350 TA heads were available) extolling the 350 (if only TA made aluminum heads for it).  So it got me wondering if building a 350 would be a lot less trouble than my plan for a stroker 300.  As far as existing components, the only thing I'd be concerned about reusing is the bellhousing and transmission, which I think will bolt up fine.

[mgb260]

Eric, 350 is taller and wider like the 340. Stick with the 300.

[Airwreckc]

Jim,

It's how I'm learning, just wanted to be sure that I wasn't missing something.

[BlownMGB-V8]

A few relevant points here. First, the 350 and 340 are both just that much too big for the car that instead of minimal body mods to make them fit you end up pretty much having to do everything you have to do to fit a 455. And there are no headers for the 350. So skip the 350 and do the stroker 300 instead. A 340 can be done if you'd rather do body mods than the stroker but things like lowering the rack and putting a hole in the hood won't likely make you happy.

The TA Rover heads will fit the 300 block but they need a little welding in the corners to match the 300 block. Look at the points of the lifter valley and you will see that on the 300 iron blocks they angle inward. Next time I order a set from TA I will ask them to do that weld before surfacing the head. (2 places per head). I actually need to pull my heads back off the block, fill them and get them skimmed again, and it would be better if they came already done. There is just enough of a gap there to let oil leak out at the inside 2 corners of the head gasket. This void could be filled with Devcon or JB Weld but to do it properly it needs to be heliarced. Too bad they didn't think of that when making the patterns, but it is an easily resolved problem. The heads will definitely flow much better than anything else available and have a modern chamber configuration. 1.9/1.6" valve size is a good choice that fits without siamezing the seats. Pistons if zero decked will need a 35cc dish for 10.5 compression.

All the Buick engines of that era except the 215 used the standard GM Corporate BOP bellhousing pattern. The Skyhawk cable operated bell is generally considered the best choice for an MGB.

Jim

[Airwreckc]

Jim,  

Thanks for the heads up on the welding of the corners.  Turns out that TA says they are only selling raw heads right now as they don't have the personnel to keep up with things like porting, etc.  When you pull your heads, it would be great to have a couple of pics of what you do to the heads.  Thanks to the "heads up" from Dan, I have just ordered the last set of heads from this production run, so at least I'll have a set when I get my engine out of storage (we just moved).  And yes, I am now committed to the 300 stroker

As an aside, I found this which got pretty good reviews for high temperature aluminum repairs--perhaps this could be used instead of welding?  https://www.quiksteel.com/16562tri-xtreme-heat-putty/

Glad to hear your thoughts on the Skyhawk bell--I found one on eBay last year, pretty sure that's what I got.  And my big ass TR-3650 transmission has an adapter for the BOP pattern.  It'll be interesting to see what I need to do the the tunnel to make that fit.

Eric

[ag1234]

Really ?  We are talking LBC's.  right ?

[ag1234]

I ask  to understand the reasoning. Car weighs minus 2,500 ?  4 to 10 speeds ?  Needs such massive torque brought by an oversquare build ?  TA heads produce enough HP to destroy a  much shorter stroke, cast crank.   Why do this ?

[Airwreckc]

Art,

I can only respond with what my plans are.  I plan to build something that has a good mid-range.  It will, of course, have more than enough low end torque to be very fast off the line, but I am definitely not trying to emphasize that.  My plans for induction, gearing (both transmission and rear end), cam, etc. are to push upwards the torque curve, so I'm not just burning my tires up at every stop light.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Torque is good. It makes the car easier to drive. I've been driving mine a lot recently and it is very nice to be able to just let out the clutch without giving it any gas and not worry about stalling the engine.

Jim

[DiDueColpi]

I totaly "getcha" Jim. I remember driving around with my dad as a young teen in his 58 Apache PU.
He would pull away from a stop in 2nd gear and probably never reach 2000rpm before clutchlessly shifting into 3rd.
Drove me mental!
One day he took me out in moms Mercury ParkLane, We pulled onto the freeway to Chilliwack and he let that thing go! That 428 hit 130 in no time. Best ride of my life. He told me that sometimes learning to enjoy going slow is more inportant,
Not sure that I agree, but I do now enjoy leisurley cruising.
However, I have a 735 horse 496 62 Impala SS 6 speed manual that the son in laws have never seen 2000 rpm in.
My Daughters know different.
Eric I agree. You have a light, traction limited car. Too much low speed torque is your enemy.
Adopting the British mentality is key, don't accelerate but rather "gather speed".
Remenber they have the Thrust SSC!
Live like you mean it
Fred

[7sand8s]

Eric pics of the head mod:
https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/a-guide-to-building-the-lil-guy-the-mighty-300.191151/page-22
Reply#428

[DiDueColpi]

Eric! Don't even consider reusing flat tappet lifters. It's just doom despair and misery.
Get a set of DLC coated lifters and live happily ever after.
I know that there are zinc additives out there that can change your life. But unless  your an alchemist thats related to Merlin your going to be dissapointed.
Live like you mean it.
Fred

[Airwreckc]

Great advice Fred, thanks.

[Airwreckc]

Would the modification on the TA heads look like this?  My engine is in storage and I'm looking for jobs to occupy myself until the real work can begin--or is it better to have the block to refer to?  Also, forgive my ignorance, but is this modifications on both ends of the heads or only one side?

[BlownMGB-V8]

That should do it. Both ends.

Jim

[Airwreckc]

Great, thanks Jim.

[ag1234]

A little less than welding ?   In that "problem" area, proper prep, maybe center punch dibits and aluminum filled epoxy ?

[Airwreckc]

Fred,  that's what I'm thinking.  I found several high temperature epoxies,  What do you suppose the maximum temperature rating for the epoxy should be?  I found one that is rated to 300F and is supposedly extremely hard (probably can be machined).  I found some others that are aluminum and steel filled with 350F ratings.

[MGBV8]

The timing cover should not get any hotter than the engine oil or water temp.  Likely cooler when the car is moving.

[Airwreckc]

Carl, that's what I was thinking, as well.  Thanks for the input.

[mgb260]

I like J-B weld.

https://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld-professional-size

[Spitfire 350]

I used to use JBWeld to block off water jackets in rotary engines, never had a leak. I was turning side port engines into internal peripheral port engines. That is until the SCCA outlawed the blocking off of water jackets in rotary engines.

[Airwreckc]

Good to know.  I think there's an aluminum filled JB Weld that's high temperature, too.