Buick 266 stroker

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

Since the TRW L2142CF pistons have long since been discontinued, are there any off the shelf pistons that can be machined to work or will I need to have custom made pistons?

I have a call in to Woody Cooper at the Wedge Shop, hoping he can educate me what my options are.

[MGBV8]

I would also call Mark LaGrou at D&D.

http://aluminumv8.com/Home/About

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

Per Phil Baker 266 recipe, he used TRW Ford 170 +30 pistons, I wonder what the difference is between the TRW and these Silvolites 170 +30?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-s1119-030/make/ford

In regards to Mark, he is too difficult to work with, and many find that to be true. It's like he doesn't want the business.

[40indianss]

Interesting that YOU found D&D difficult to work with. I found them knowledgeable and accommodating to share information and responsive to my questions.  Just my opinion and experience.  I would have no hesitation to interact with them(Mark) in the future.

[MGBV8]

No them any longer.  Dan LaGrou passed away back in February.

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

I am not the only one that has found him difficult, customer's, symbiotic competitors and colleagues. I will leave it at that.
Woody seems to agree he thinks the Silvolite 170 30+ should work since same bore as 215/TRW 170.

I will let the machinist assess and go from there.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Mark is indeed something of a "Character".
And that's all I'm sayin.

Jim

[MGBV8]

Yes, he is, but aren't we all?

I have gotten along with him well over the phone & in person.

[MGBV8]

the Silvolite 170 30+ should work since same bore as 215/TRW 170.

I'd be double checking the compression height.

[roverman]

Or, use a 4.6L crank ? One piece  Viton rear seal, ( counterbore seal area of 215 block), to fit. This crank will regrind to a
     3.300" stroke. Why bother with a 215" block ? Many 4L and 4.6L 's available.
                                                                                            Good Luck,  Art.

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

Back to this. I just wrapped up a rebuild of my F-head 134 in my 61' Willys Jeep CJ5 and looking towards the future. I know many on here have a great deal of experience with the 215 and I would appreciate some sage advice.

I have the 215, I have the 300 crank, I have the rare 215 to Borg Warner T series bell housing.
Stock F-head weight is 475lbs, the 215 at around 317lbs, in that regard is ahead.
215 torque at 1000 RPM is 77, F-head is 55, 215 is still ahead in stock form.

Looking at all the data, from the old Hot Rod articles, Team Buick, and here, my use for the engine is a tad bit different, I am looking for torque down low (which in stock form, the 215 is known not to have much as desired by racers), which it already has more than the F head and weighs less, but if I could shift the torque a tad lower in the band and a higher amount of, can it be done without going forced induction? I see some mention on H.A.M.B of the GMC 4-71 blower, but I am sure that would require a hood scoop which I have no interest in, and more power than I actually need for my intended use.

Again, my needs are modest and the 215 is already ahead of the curve vs my F head, which is a happy lunker, but heavy. With it being recently rebuilt w/ Isky grind, shaved .060, .060 bore and Weber 38 I should be around 80-85hp, 120-130 fpt all in, with that said, the engine is worth $3-2500 to the right person as all of my work is documented.

My desire for the 215 in GM form is the fact, as many of you know, the 198 that Kaiser Jeep used evolved from the 215, so there is a more direct, American connection. And my Jeep has a ton of period accessories and modifications so staying true to that is very important to me. And, I have the engine already.

If I were building this for speed, I think going the Rover direction would be a no brainer.

With all that said, I found that liners are still made, the back two chipped when getting the pistons out. I soaked this engine for a month with Marvels/acetone and ATF, still fought me getting the pistons free. Overall in good shape but the two small chips on the lower liners. I assume any good machine shop can fix this?



Recap, I am ok with the 215 in stock form, but if I could increase the torque down low and shift the band a tad lower without going forced induction, that would be a good solution for my needs.

[mgb260]

Spencer, The 215 liners are cast in and not replaceable without boring out and new liners pressed in. Too expensive. I would clean up the gouges and hone or bore as necessary. Nothing is going to hit that low. I put a 215 in a Jeep years ago with 300 heads milled .030, Offy dual port intake, 400 AFB carb,headers and Crower 50232 cam. That cam was a little too big and if doing again I'd use the 50230 and later Rover heads. I later built a 3.8 V6 and it had about the same power.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Right off the bat I would suggest you look for the Buick 300. With aluminum heads and intake it weighs right at 400 lbs so a very decent weight improvement. With iron heads and intake 450 lbs so still a little better. Bellhousing is the common BOP pattern so that should not be a problem at all and you may even turn a profit on your rare 215 bell. In the completely stock configuration it should give you everything you are looking for. That engine was justly famous for long life and durability.

Jim

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

@jim Nichols thanks for confirming my suspicions. I know they can be replaced but $$$. That's assuring to know I most likely can clean up and use as is.

@jim blackwood I already have $500 in the engine, traded some rare ARE Silverstone mags for it and $500 cash. I have some quality fair priced items for sale already, nothing is moving in my area and haven't seen but one 300 near me in the last year or so.

So I'd rather use what I have, as nothing to lose even in stock trim as more benefits than my F head but about 75lbs lighter.

[mgb260]

Spencer, When you rebuild the 215 use studs on the mains as the caps move a bit. Rover has crossbolt mains. What intake will you use? I liked the Offy dual port on my Jeep. Performer is good too. Stock is okay.

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

I just heard back from Mark D&D and had a very pleasant, grounding call.
He said build it stock,.their flywheel,.their stage 1 cam, Egge pistons, with gaskets around $1650 ish which I think will be perfect. I appreciate him grounding me to reality and backing it up with facts and actual needs.

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

@jim Nichols haven't decided yet. I think a good compromise in performance and MPG.
JET offers a reman  two barrel carb that supposedly flows like a small four barrel.

What would you suggest?

[BlownMGB-V8]

Spencer, you are right the 215 will be better than what you have, but keep an eye open for the occasional 300. The torque is much higher and it'll be easier to drive slowly and all you need to change over is the engine and the bellhousing. Also that 215 stuff should sell here easily enough. Find someone building a GS clone and you might pick up a very nice 300 really cheap.

Jim

[mgb260]

I used the 400 AFB that is no longer made. A lot of guys use the 500 Edelbrock and rejet it. There is also a 390 Holley that works well. If going offroad there is a spring loaded needle and seat and run the float bowls a little low. For two barrel I'd use an adapter and Holley two barrel. Egge has Olds 215 pistons that will raise the compression a little.

[MGBV8]

Just an FYI: Your Buick 300 crank can be fitted to any early Rover V8. The mains are virtually the same as the 215.   Your 215 bellhousing also fits all Rover V8s (up to & including 2004).

Best o' luck on your 215 build.

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

@jim blackwood I will keep an eye out, thanks for the feedback

@jim nichols hm, the Weber 38 DGAS I just bought can flow much like the 390, I know there are adapters out there, since I have it, may be worth playing with before deciding. Is there a better intake option than stock in my basic use case that's worthwhile?

Gents I really appreciate all the feedback. It's a relief to have a plan formulated for the engine.

[mgb260]

The Offy dual port is best for low end throttle response and fuel mileage. Edelbrock Performer is best street performance. Stock 4 barrel is OK. There are three or four stock ones on Ebay for under $200. The Weber will be fine on a 2 barrel intake but it still needs a Rochester to Weber adapter.

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

@jim Nichols I put in an order almost a year back with TA Performance for the Offy, I think he found out they aren't making it anymore or waiting until enough order to make another run. I guess second hand market if I did will be my best choice.

[mgb260]

New ones are too expensive at around $900! from Summit. Available from England:

https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/products/7001-jwr-offenhauser-dual-port-intake-manifold-4bbl

I'd run the 2 barrel until you found a used one.

[MGBV8]

I'd use a stock GM 215 intake manifold before I'd touch the much maligned Offy JWR 7001 dual port.  Maybe the Offy offers a smidge more low end torque, but gives it up everywhere else.   Certainly wouldn't pay big bucks for it.  I might try one if someone gave me one.

IMO, there is a good reason no other manufacturers produced anything like it.

I have been using my OEM Buick 215 manifold with a Carter/Edelbrock 500 for 22 years with good results.