Changing 5th gear ratios on Ford t5

[ex-tyke]

If you know the vehicle application(s) for the 1352-126, then you can search wrecking yards on this site.
http://www.car-part.com/

[mgb260]

Tim, The Turbo four T5's had a .79 OD. They have a 3.97 first though too.

[tbo]

Hi Jim.I have three  4 cylinder t5s and I'm pretty sure one is a Turbo  but the input shaft is longer and my custom Triumph bellhousing is made  specifically for the v8 length input shaft. . I really like the 295  first gear I have now but the 335 first would be OK  so the 85 Mustang 1352-126 would solve all my problems. Just have to find one or build one . Tim

[ex-tyke]

Here's a handy chart for identifying T5 applications and gear ratios - maybe there's another xsmn application/part that might suit
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm

[tbo]

Thanks Graham . I really appreciate that but I've been studying that chart ever since I decided to put a 2.3 Ford Turbo into a TR3 I'm restoring thee or four years ago.I/ve had some health issues since then and have decided to finish it as stock and sell it .So I put the  a T5 in my TR2to get a nice five speed with no electrical issues. Tired of 3000 rpm at 60 mph . Still any help is always good Tim

[tbo]

Just an update on the5th gear problem on the Ford T5  in the TR2.I took a T5 trans with a335 first gear and .68 overdrive to my local transmission shop whose owner has a reputation for excellent and fairly priced work.He managed to find a set of gears that could be adapted. They were  a31/55 nwc set in used condition. They did not line up on the wc output shaft without machining the big gear down a few thousands to make it narrower and moving the clip groove for the small gear so it sat properly in line with the big gear.With a new input shaft and new bearings a better replacement lay shaft I now have a rebuilt T5 transmission with a.82 overdrive for a very fair price of 900.00 dollars. That will be going in in a couple of months and will let you know the outcome when it happens. Looking forward to a happy ending and many thanks to all you guys who helped out with advice and knowledge  Tim

[ex-tyke]

You could have purchased a new 31T/55T WC gearset to get the same results without the machining expense.
Ultimately, you've got the ratios that you wanted - so congrats and the TR2 will be happier cruising on 401!

[tbo]

Hello Graham. Someone called Waterbucket posted on Sept 30 that Tremec no longer supplies .80 gearsets and any used sets are expensive. My guy found one gear available at 200 dollars but no matching gear  As far as I know all aftermarket sets are for the 295 first gears wc trans which are more popular for racing.In the 335 first gear trans that gives a ratio of .92 so that is out.We were just lucky that the box of 5th gear sets that he bought from a retired tranny guy in London  had one set that produced a final ratio of .82 even though they were nwc I think that is how all that came to be. When I started this project I thought well Ford has all kinds of gear ratios so this should be a piece of cake. Well I know a lot more now will let you know it all works out . Tim

[waterbucket]

The 0.80 fifth gear was principally used with the 2.95 first gear and was introduced on the Ford Cosworth Sierra and was then adopted by TVR with a different tailhousing. There were two problems with the 0.80 fifth gear set, the first is that it was fragile and was often the first thing to fail in these gearboxes, the second was that if the gears outlasted the bearings actually removing these gears often broke them anyway. These gears went out of production a long time ago and now alongside the 23 tooth input shaft are as scarce as hens teeth.
With a lack of OE parts and also to overcome their fragility aftermarket 0.80 gearsets were produced with racing in mind. These gears have bigger teeth but less of them and the are less helical in their manufacture, the upshot of this is that they are noisier. Not having heard them running I do not know how much noisier though.
It was this that decided me to sell my T5 ang go down the RX8 gearbox route, although these have their own problems (synchros linked to running up to 9500rpm) they can be bought for less than £100 ($130) so for the cost of a T5 overhaul  I could buy ten of them.
The last downside of the 080 fifth gear is that with a high torque engine you need to change the diff ratio to get its real benefit

[waterbucket]

I did post the info regarding after market 5th gear sets for a T5. The original 0.80 5th gear was used on the Ford Cosworth Sierra and afterwards by TVR on their Rover V8 cars. The downside with the OEM 0.80 5th gear is that it is not very strong and was often the first thing in those particular T5's to fail, even if the gears did not fail in use removing them without a special puller often broke them anyway.
The after market ones are designed with racing in mind and have a much higher torque rating but they are of a straighter cut geartooth and the suppliers say they are not as quiet as the OEM. They also need a slight relieving of part of the gearcasing to get them to fit.
If your supplier has any more of the OEM 0.80 5th gearsets they typically make about $650 in the UK.
For info I show the speeds in the gears with a 2.95 gearset and 185/80/15 tyre as fitted to the TR6 and a 3.45 diff that was widely used in the UK

mph / RPM   1000   2000   3000   4000   5000   5500
  1st Gear   7.8            15.6   23.4            31.2     39          42.9
2nd Gear           11.7            23.5   35.2            46.9   58.6     64.5
3rd Gear           17.2            34.3   51.5            68.6   85.8           94.3
4th Gear           23             46             69            91.9   114.9   126.4
5th Gear       28.7       57.5      86.2          114.9   143.6   158

And for the 3.35 gearset

mph / RPM   1000   2000   3000   4000   5000   5500
1st Gear      6.9           13.7            20.6   27.4           34.3           37.7
2nd Gear           11.9           23.8            35.7   47.6           59.5           65.5
3rd Gear           17.8            35.6    53.5   71.3           89.1            98
4th Gear           23            46            69           91.9          114.9   126.4
5th Gear           28.7            57.5   86.2          114.9   143.6   158

I would have thought that either gearset would be good for a TR, almost 29MPH/1000 rpm is not bad 2600rpm for 75mph. Indeed the TR6 first gear is 314 right in the middle of the two gearsets

[tbo]

Hi Phil. Thanks for that info. My transmisssion rebuilder had only one set of gears for the .80 over drive ratio and that was by accident and good luck .Could use lots more obviously. The20/32 gear set for the 2.95 first gear is available at The gear Box  in south carolinafor 120 us. Nothing for the 335 trans as far as i know.After looking at the 5th gear numbers I keep wondering why the numbers are identical for both the 295  the 335 trans .They should be slightly different to reflect the two different first gears I would think. Am I missing something Tim

[IaTR6]

Tim,
I cannot put my fingers on the information right now, but I thought there was an issue with some 5th gear sets where the Ford and GM mainshaft splines were different, meaning some combinations cannot be used a Ford or vice-versa. You'll have to look into that.I find from Pro-Force Performance web page that your choices for 5th are:
for a 3.35 T5
.68  27/59t (what I have)
.73  25/51t
.83  31/33t
.92  33/53t (listed as no longer avail.)

for a 2.95 T5
.59  27/59t (what I would have if I had changed my input shaft and the 1-3 gears)
.63  25/51t
.72  31/55t
.80  33/53t (listed as NLA, but you find there are some available, but case mods may be required.)
I'm adding this, and it may be redundant, but you cannot just change the input and first gear to get a different
1st gear ratio. The input and 1-2-3 gears all have to be in a matching set. So, making a 3.35 1st gear T5 into a 2.95 1st
is prohibitively expensive unless you have access to the correct press and expertise. It kept me at 3.35 for that
reason only.
Dennis

[ex-tyke]

To add my 2 cents worth - here's another web document on 5th gear ratio availability.

[tbo]

Hello Dennis and thanks for responding. It all helps . I think the 335 first gear trans on the .83 overdrive should be a 31/55 gear set cause that is what my guy put in my trans an  the ex tyke from Chatham has that same listing in his email below yours.Ive come to the conclusion that the 335 ist gear is ok cause it is the same as the Triumph ist gear and only gets you started.The overdrive is all important for cruising.As to your car I know it has a lot of horsepower so why not just by a 295 /.63 WC transmission and swap out the one you have and sell it. I have a 295 first gear in the TR2  and it is wonderful . You would love it in your car.Thanks Tim

[IaTR6]

Well Tim, not going to the 2.95 1st gear was just a case of "where do you stop throwing money at it". I am not that happy with the 3.35 and V8, and could start in 2nd, but changing all the gears in my case would have been $1000 or so, and I would still have a weaker transmission than I would like. Going to a T5Z or another was just more than I wanted to spend. I cannot see myself actually needing the heavier trans
as hard launches from a start are not in my future - 20mph and punch it is more realistic. I did convince myself by calculating the 6000 rpm limit in 1st for both 3.35 and 2.95 gears, and it wasn't enough difference, or so I thought at the time. Now that I think about it, the actual issue is my exhaust is too loud. If I
keep up with the 6-8-10 speed SUV's, I find I'm making quite a racket, and the other drivers think I'm racing or something. Of course, I could give a good
many of them a run for it, but they would be silent, and I'm making a scene!
Dennis

[40indianss]

Back in the old days, 1970's, the trans of choice was the t10 unless you were rich and could afford the m22.  Typically everyone wanted the 2.20 first gear which was the close ratio  box, the other was a 2.54 first which was a wide ratio.  Now 2.95 is the first gear of choice in most cases with the t5.  In my 2200lb Healy 100-6 with a 289 ford stroked to 327  with the 2.20 t10 and narrowed Pontiac rear with 4.88 gears first gear was very usable.  Now with my mgb with the 2.95 t5 and 3.90 rear the numbers should be very similar as to functionality.  The 3.35 always seems short to me.  Also the more evenly spread the ratios within the trans the more user friendly in my opinion

[IaTR6]

Following along, I find I may not have done enough due diligence before staying with the 3.35 T5. As posted by Don Foote, the 2.20 t10 and 4.88 rear gives a total reduction of 10.736. The 2.95 T5 with 3.90 rear will be 11.505, which is a little lower. My setup is 3.35 T5 with 3.54 rear, giving 11.859. No wonder it seems to spin up so fast! Gravel hauling anyone? If I had done the 2.95 with my 3.54,
I would be at 10.443, very close to the Healey that was mentioned.
Well, if I have to pull the trans for any reason, I will more seriously consider the 2.95 change.
On a brighter note, the little noisemaker came out of the garage today for the first time in 2019! Started up as if it had run yesterday!
OK little red car, are you setting me up?
Dennis

[tbo]

Hi Dennis. I read up on your build and thought you did a great job . Not that I know anything. You say your a first timer but you must know something to do so well.There is lots of conversation on getting a better sound on the TR6 /V8 conversion  and cant be too expensive .And same with the transmission  swap . you could get the one you want and sell the existing one to balance the cost . Then you would have the car you really want . As a friend of mine always says .Think of the Glory Tim

[302GT]

The TR2 should be able to pull 5th gear at 2000 rpm unless you have a  very radical cam. The old British engines with their long strokes were built more for torque not high RPM power.  My Morris Minor Traveler runs just fine at 2000 RPM in 5th (I put in a 5 speed conversion) and the car is heaver than a TR2 with a much smaller engine. Are you sure the TR2 is tuned optimally? It is derived from a tractor engine...

[tbo]

Hi Larry  Changing the 295 /.63 trans for the 335/.82 trans should solve my problem .82 overdrive is identical to the Triumph electric overdrive but without the bother, The car runs great other wise.Motor has a planned 4A head and 13/4 SU carbs. Lots of power. Will report when the tranny gets changed . Working on a 66 4A now for a little while Tim Forgot to say the 335 trans is like the first gear in a Triumph trans . Not my favorite but it will have to do.