Fitting Daimler 250 motor to a Spitfire

[kick]

I am about to fit a Daimler 250 V8 to my '64 Spitfire. I am having a BMW 6 speed gearbox currently mounted to the engine and I have been advised to fit a Datsun SSS differential, which I have managed to find. Has anybody fitted a Daimler   V8 to a Spitfire and if so can you give me any advice? Dick

[mgb260]

I have'nt but, would like to see pictures of your progress.

[kick]

Jim, I have just had the BMW gearbox fitted to the Daimler motor and will collect it tomorrow. The engine is out of the original car ( This was a Datsun 1400 motor). The body work needs a lot of work as it has not been looked after over the years. I will load pics as and when I do stuff.

[roverman]

Dick, My hemi is a "little" bigger,but should prove interesting, to compare notes. This being a 6.1L, Gen III mopar into 74" Jensen Healey. Good Luck, roverman.

[DiDueColpi]

Come on now Art.
We don't talk about size in polite company.

Cheers
Fred

[kick]

Although I was promised the engine & gearbox back on Saturday it wasn't ready! Is that a surprise or what. I will get back to you all as soon as I have some pics ready. Dick

[djw090]

How did they fit the gear box to the engine? Did they make a custom bell or just some kind of engine back plate?

[BlownMGB-V8]

I think it's way cool that you're using that engine. Looking forward to some photos.

JB

[kick]

I'm not sure that size counts - because it is a Daimler!

However the way we are fitting the BMW gearbox to the Daimler motor is first off making a new backing plate, changing the starter motor to a Toyota Hilux as it is smaller than the original Lucas starter, making a new fly wheel and fitting the Toyota ring gear. A BMW clutch is then fitted to the new flywheel along with the smaller BMW bell housing.

I hope to get the motor back by Friday (hopefully this Friday 6th). I will post some pics as soon as I can. Dick

[kick]

Hi Guys, I finally got the Daimler motor back today. They fitted a Toyota Hilux starter motor, Toyota ring gear and a Luk clutch assembly onto a newly machined aluminum fly wheel. The Hilux starter is considerably  smaller than the Daimler Lucas one and the ring gear is a smaller diameter. This means he was able to machine a smaller back plate and make a smaller custom built bell housing. The gearbox is a 5 speed BMW 325 model.

I have had to take off the oil filter to place the motor, so I will in time need to modify that part. I will also need to shave about 4mm off the bottom lip on the chassis to allow the motor to drop done a bit further. It looks like the S.U. carbs and  air cleaners will sit about 75mm, 3 ins, proud of the bonnet, so a modification might be required there.

This is my first attempt at attaching photos and I have placed 3 on the system - I hope it works. Cheers Dick

[kick]

No success with loading pics, can anybody give me any pointers. I've tried loading off my windows pictures and directly from my Nikon camera and nothing seems to work.

[mgb260]

Dick, They have to be in jpg format and can't be too large. Looking forward to the pics. Very cool little motor!

[kick]

Sucess at last, I managed to download Windows photo viewer and work through that program.  will load more later. Dick

[roverman]

Dear Curtis, inch by mm, I have offended a brudda of the north by mentioning SIZE, DiDueColpi ? Please remove all dimensional/bragging allegations from this webbsite, lest "someome" feel, measurably challenged ? Cheers, roverman.

[Jonji]

Russ Carpenter is the acknowledged maestro of Daimler V8 tuning. He is developing a road kit for the Daimler 2.5 V8 with fuel injection and a supercharger aiming at 200+ bhp with standard compression ratio. Contact russcarpenter@btinternet.com

[BlownMGB-V8]

I have to admit, pulling 200 hp out of an engine that (physical) size using a blower does seem a bit... well, the word underwhelming seems to come to mind. It really does look good though.

JB

[roverman]

This dinky giant IS so coool ! I could use one to start- my HEMI ! roverman.

[Bill Young]

Dick, it really looks good. How much clearance between the pan and the steering rack do you have? I'd think you'd want to get the engine down just as low as possible in the chassis both to aid in bonnet clearance as well as for handling. Getting 200 hp from 2.5 liters isn't too bad, especially with the rather low stock compression ratio as I remember. If you have to open a hole in the bonnet to clear those carbs, then you might as well mount a supercharger like Jim did and really look the part of the "Blown Hemi"

[kick]

Thanks for all the info guys. But one thing at a time. I have mounted the engine and gearbox and made special plates and mountings for the Datsun diff. I'm told that the Subaru diff is exactly the same. I'm now busy modifying the hangers to accommodate the Datsun wheel hubs, brake drums and the Datsun drive shafts. I hope the photos give a better idea as to how I am doing things. It is a slow process as I am trying to do everything myself with my own equipment.







8350: Shows front right engine mounting - not painted.
8351: Shows right engine mounting - I used the original Daimler bracket.
8352: Diff mounting - the unpainted plate is what I have made up.
8353: Rear diff mounting - note the painted bracket I had made up which supports the spring and the diff spring mounts I made.

[triumphjam]

WELL WELL

That is interesting, I did this swap back in the mid 80's in a Mk 4 Spitfire, it was road registered and was used for classic racing!

Daimler Dart motor and flywheel, using Dart box/bellhousing cut midway through the front bearing and adapted to the Saloon Triumph gearbox with STAG input shaft machined down to suit, with tailshaft shortened using O/dribe rear casting. Oil lines diverted to a front filter. Starter was standard, Alternater was Spit, turned round so it is in front of engine/belt. GT6 Radiator.

Even with the distributer shortened it still stuck through the bonnet(Brace modified) The Holley(390) also was through the bonnet.

It was fast, especially with cam, head porting and nitrous, went through plenty of diffs and axle universal joints/yokes, gearbox never failed.

I will dig out some photos and load them shortly.

Cheers
Kevin Gill
Wellington
New Zealand

[kick]

Thanks Kevin. I would love to see your photos as it is quite a daunting task doing everything from scratch, but I'm really enjoying it.

 I am not planning at this stage to go the nitrous route, but remain relatively standard in case I need the motor for my Daimler Dart.

 I am also trying to use as many Spitfire parts as possible, so the rear axle hangers will be Spitfire with Datsun hubs bolted on to them using a flange welded onto the hangers. As the drive shafts now have double universal joints and a sliding joint I'm having to make a support to prevent the wheels from flying outwards. For this I'm intending to use Spitfire rear hangers, but running parallel to the ground. Not quite a wishbone as I'm keeping the original forward stay, but they will have the same effect.

My bell housing was made to fit a new engine backing plate and then welded onto the gearbox.


Cheers, Dick

[triumphjam]

Hi Dick

I am putting the contents of the E-mail I sent you in here so others may read it, also here are some of the photos.

"I used the saloon sump on the Dart motor and as far as I can tell it was almost exactly the same position forward/aft as you have yours but a bit lower.

I also moved the oil lines on the heads to the front for head to firewall clearance, even then the firewall had to be
cut back a bit for the R/H head.

I later put an Isuzu Piazza motor in it and will include a pic of that because it shows where the firewall was cut for
the Daimler.

I used Triumph Vitesse front springs which from memory had 1.5 coils cut off and then the ends were heated and squashed pigtail flat.

I used 41mm pipe for the extractors, way bigger than the ports because of the Nitrous, you should NOT go that big. They were a Tri-y design to get room on the left front and to provide for a 3 pipe merge between the chassis and the sump. BUT that did not match the firing order correctly.

The GT6 radiator was further forward by 2" and a bit lower than the pic ill send with the Isuzu in it.

There is one picture of it with the Daimler in it that shows the reverse alternator setup. I used the standard Daimler tensioner with this setup.

I also found a pic of the different input shafts that were used to facilitate the gearbox conversion. I used the short
Dart stick and knob in the Triumph box, essentially its all the same except my way you get syncromesh on first. Others have since copied my same conversion on their Darts in New Zealand.

The car was quick, 6th fastest or so out of all the classic racers in the New Zealand national meeting in 1988, ahead of Porsches, Cobras etc....it got a LOT OF ATTENTION

At one point I had a 3.27 diff in it and it easily ran to 136MPH.

For the oil filter remote I first used a cast alloy piece bolted to the block but it would not seal so later I just
cut the end of the housing as you have it and welded two tubes on at a slight angle and put two right angle fittings on, that cleared the frame.

The rear gearbox mount was GT6 O/D, it mounted to the Saloon Overdrive piece which bolted to an adapter plate on the rear of the main gearbox casting, the tailshaft had to be cut, shortened and rewelded by a specialist, it never broke. The chassis only needed a little clearance at the back there with a Triumph right angle speedo drive.

You can see the angle the engine sloped back at by the adapter plate machined for the Holley. The Motor probably had 170-175HP without the Nitrous, it had a LOT more with it, MUCH MORE THAN WAS ANTICIPATED!

Valve springs were Cooper S from memory, had problems with refaced cam lifters, the front scroll timing cover sloshed oil out under hard braking. Speaking of which I had Saloon disks and calipers on the uprights with 6mm spacers, later Princess 4 pot calipers without the spacers, heres a link to what someone else wrote up about my conversion:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/lghrnrm/page2.htm

Diff gears and carriers were heat treated and frozen as appropriate in an effort to hold them together for short
periods!!!!!! I also pressed yokes off Herald axles onto the Spitfire ones as they were less worn and could last a few more races before pulling through.

Before you ask I did look at a lot of possibilities for a different rear end, someone had done the same as you with the Datsun 1600 diff, BUT nothing seemed to solve all the problems. Have you seen the drawings of the 67 Vette reared into a Spitfire! they are the best solution I have found!?

I eventually put the Isuzu motor in to cut down on maintenance, it was still quite fast. The last event I
entered it in before I sold it was a grass Gymkhana which it won.

I spent some good times with one of the loves of my life in that car!!!!!!!

The car still exists in the city, I even see it driving around ocassionally"

That should do for a start,  I am happy to help in any way I can.

Cheers
Kevin

You can see where the STAG engine mount was used on the left hand side, the tower was trimmed back slightly, thats exactly where it bolted to the modified Daimler mounting plate, similar to yours.

[triumphjam]

Hi Dick

Heres how I did the engine mounts on mine, you can at least use your mount there to put the square tube extension on as I did because its exactly the same bracket. You can then use the Daimler tensioner in the standard position.

Cheers
Kevin

[triumphjam]

By the way all

It was Russ Carpenters article in a magazine back then, maybe Cars and Car Conversions, that gave me the idea for the manifold/Holley adaption, full credit to him for that one.

Heres two useful site references, the second one has his son posting.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gAssing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=746020&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Daimler+250+V8+engine+mods&mid=0

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=898916&mid=0

Cheers
Kevin

[triumphjam]

Hi All

Correction, I just found the magazine where I obtained the Russ Carpenter info, it was HOD ROD and Custom

Here is a link that points to scanned in pages from the series of articles,

http://www.ukdrn.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=87&start=64

Cheers
Kevin