GT6+ Buick V6 resurrection.

[mgb260]

Richard, Should handle over 300HP. The 2 holes in front bolt to a bracket that has a large round bushing like in back. I don't have dimensions but, looks very narrow.

[Richard/SIA]

Now I need to figure out what rear gear ratio I really want.
Looks like 3.42 or 3.58 and .74 OD from a Camaro T5 trans to be reasonably practical.
Guessing around 160 - 180 HP on the engine, 195/60-13 tires, 5500 RPM normal redline, though I have been told it is good to 7000.
Would like around 70 MPH at 2500 rpm.
The short 22.21" tires look like it's more like 2800 RPM even with the OD.
3.08 gears would be about ideal.

[Richard/SIA]

MUST - STOP - BUYING - MORE - CARS !

OK, not really buying "Another" so much as buying a GT6 parts car.
Apparently was a fairly nice car, until some one cut the roof off!

Missing the trans and diff, but the engine is still there.
Chassis and engine may eventually get a Spitfire body?
If I were smarter I would just resell ALL the pieces I do not need.
But it seems every time I do that I regret it later.

[Richard/SIA]

Bought a clean ex-Camaro WC T5 for $250.00
Confirmed it really is from a V8.
1352-196, so 2.95 first gear and .63 overdrive in fifth.

Also going to try to buy the bolts to set up my two post lift.
Hate to do it outside but there is no room inside.
Have to start getting these cars built.

[Richard/SIA]

Looks like the T5 will fit fairly easily.
Need to sort out my engine mounts to be sure.

[Richard/SIA]

A few notes on attempted progress.

Been getting the parts car apart.
Not sure which frame I will end up using, not thrilled with the sloppy mods to the old one but kind of hate to cut up a cherry one.

Pulled both front valance pieces and they have Bondo in them.
Looked around for a serious fiberglass chin spoiler as replacement and found none that I like, nothing even close in the U.S.
Anyone have a serious front spoiler and source they can point me toward?
Can fab my own but trying to not get sidetracked.

Also determined what the last builder used for engine mounts.
Now I can drop my junk block in for mock-up and see how it looks.
Once that is done I want to remove the body to work on the frame and suspension.

Wire loom in the parts car is about cherry so may be simpler to use it than sort out the butchered one.
Now realize the original tach is cable driven so cannot be readily used, disappointed in that.
Might be able to get the guts switched to electronic and keep the face?
Or modify an early 'Vette distributor to work?

Next trip to Reno I want to stop at the wood shop and buy some new veneer for the dash.
TR will be good practice before doing the same to my Marcos.

BTW, what do we call a TR-Buick, a TRICK?

[Richard/SIA]

Made a quick and dirty bar to act as an upper link to fit between the rear uprights on the GT6 parts car since the spring and diff are gone.
So now I can at least roll it around until I finish stripping it.

Digging through my stash of old parts I realize I have a decent set of original Super Oscars and a similar size set of Marschell? yellow fog lamps.
The TRICK-6 may just have to be done Rally Car style!
With radar cars, radar planes (and now drones?) skulking around all day I now do most of my flying at night, lots of light would be a good feature.
Probably need the extra displacement to drive the alternator when it's all switched on!

Need to get my rear wheels off the car to see if they can be saved.
Fairly wide 13" with "Basket Weave" centers and I kind of like them.
One has been butchered with a second set of mounting holes.
Need to take it to my wheel guy and see what he says.

Cleared the concrete apron and assembled my engine hoist.
May actually get the engine mocked this week.
Will take a picture to post.

Something along these lines, but with a pair of large fog lamps mounted low on the bonnet hinges.

[Richard/SIA]

This one gets harder every time I try to go forward on it!

Took off the rear wheels today so I could get a better look at the horrid live rear axle mod the previous builder did.
To say it is frightening and has no travel does not begin to relate the horror.
Maybe he used a BIC lighter and coat hangers to make his welds?
Engineering by faded memory of something he heard long ago and had never understood?
Short version, DEATH TRAP!
Hard to believe this thing ever turned a wheel under turbo V6 power.
Not so hard to believe it was parked after a single very short drive.

And speaking of the rear wheels, I probably shouldn't.
Since the axle stud pattern did not match the TR it seems he reamed out the holes with a hand drill, or maybe a dull round file?
One may be repairable but I'm pretty certain the other is ruined.

Need to replace a set, numbers from the back side are JAPAN 935-2  13x5.5  48 4.
A pair of 14" to fit might also work.

I have nice set of Enkei 14" from an Alfa I may be able to adapt if I must.
If I were to give up on the IRS I could just fit an Alfa Spider LSD rear axle I have.

[Richard/SIA]

Busted my butt over the holiday and got my 9000 Lb. two post lift installed!

Getting bodies off frames just got easy.
Can probably also rig it to hoist engines.

Bought a set of new lenses on eBay to fit a set of Cibie Super-Oscar shells I had laying around.
These are "Bi-Oscar" lenses that are supposed to act as driving and fog lamps.
If they work well I will only need one set of additional large lamps similar to the red car above.
I could also mount my set of Super-Oscars for additional portable daylight.
Need to rig them for quick removal on event days.

Bought new Fel-Pro head gaskets for the 225 V6.
Not happy with them, they are oversize, clearly intended for use on a 231 engine.
Tried to get proper 225 gaskets from TA Performance but they are out of them and have no source for more except COMETIC, $$$.
Suggestions for a proper 225 head gaskets source welcome!

Have to find some more money, decided I want to fit vintage 14" -  4x108 Cosmic wheels.
They will look "Correct" for a GT6 and are not too hard to find.

[Richard/SIA]

Need to get the extra spacers out from under the body so that it sits in it's true position for good measurements.

Mocked the engine into place tonight.
Not too happy with the current mounts.
I think I should be able to go 1.50" further back and 1.00" down without modifying the oil pan or moving the steering rack.
That would put the steering rack just behind the crank pulley.
Looks like I will have to notch a forward cross member but not too badly.
Also looks like engine and intake should fit under the bonnet.
May have to get clever on the air cleaner.

Will try to add a pic in the morning.

Links to pics of BOPR conversions might be helpful, the V6 is nearly the same but a little shorter.

[Richard/SIA]

Late night observation.
I need to move the engine back at least 4"!

Had a thought and measured the front of the bell to the T5 gearshift distance.
I had expected to need to move the gearshift forward, now I find it actually needs to go BACK unless I want to nearly bang my hand into the dashboard.

This all means a bit more firewall modification than I had hoped.
It also means moving the steering rack, which is claimed by some folk to be necessary in order to fix the front geometry and eliminate bump-steer/bad ackerman issues.

On the plus side it will further enhance the weight balance!

[Richard/SIA]

Mocked it up with a junk block just to see how it looks.

Here are the old mounts I am starting with.

Right side.
 

How the engine sits now.


Left (Drivers) side.


Engine should go further back and down as much as possible.
This will be made a bit more complex as I will have to relocate the steering rack.
I had hoped to keep this a fairly simple conversion so that others might more readily follow my method..

[Richard/SIA]

I set some tin and a manifold with carb on the junk engine.
I also set a piece of aluminum flush with the top of the cowl.
The engine MUST be lowered, I went to a lot of trouble for an uncut bonnet!
Since it is essentially the same as a BOPR but shorter this should not be too hard.
If I can get the front pulley to clear the steering rack I should not have too much trouble getting 4" further back.

[Richard/SIA]

Ordered NOS head gaskets today.
Hoping these have the correct sealing diameter around the cylinders, Fel-Pro appear to be "Generic" and were very much oversize.

[Richard/SIA]

Perhaps not directly progress on the car, but my new car trailer is nearly complete.
Need it to take the Trick-6 to the new shop and take the body off using the two-post lift.
Then I can get a better idea of exactly what i have to do to fix the frame. fab rear suspension, etc.

[Richard/SIA]

Fairly good morning today.

Sold a bunch of spare stock parts to a guy who is keeping his original.
Just about recovered what I paid for the parts car with it's uncut bonnet.

Got the Trick-6 on the just completed car trailer for transport to the other shop.
So now I will be able to lift the body off and do real work on repositioning the engine and trans, redo the rear suspension, etc.

[Richard/SIA]

Real progress today?

Got the body off the frame at last.
Got the horrid rear suspension off the frame.
With a clear look I'm thinking it will be a lot less work to use the other frame and start my own modifications without having to cut away the old junk.

Have to decide what I am doing for rear suspension ASAP since a lot of other details depend on it.
It appears I will have to get clever to get enough room between the frame rails for the T5 tail-housing and a drive-shaft.
Thinking I may need to bolster the outside of the frame with reinforcement rails.

Looks like I will be searching for a reduced diameter front damper and crank pulley.
May have to go with a cog belt.
Buick V6 should interchange with the BOP 215 with the possible exception of balance.
So this should have been done before by someone.
Really want the engine 3" - 4" further back and lower by the same amount.
Going to have to figure an answer for the front mounted oil filter too, it will want to jam against the front suspension.

Axle I took out is some sort of Japanese unit with a posi, once identified I hope some ricer builder will want it.

Pics of the horrors below.

Two-post lifts are nice!


The old transmission mount mess.


Single trailing arm, forked mid-way to act as a four link, but only in the previous builders fevered imagination.
With short right angle links working against each other on each side!
The only rear suspension travel was whatever the rubber bushes and metal flex allowed!
Whatever I do can hardly be worse.


Side view.

[Richard/SIA]

Okay,"Bump Steer" correction time.
A while back I found a thread with all the details for doing this but cannot locate it now.
I will try to document how I go about this.
First some careful measurements and then take the the steering rack out.
I will also remove the springs, shocks, and anti-roll bar so that I can manipulate the suspension for measurements.

Bump-Steer correction seems to want the rack moved to the rear, which may help in moving the engine back.
I also need to shorten the rack about 5" between the tie-rods. (This is where I need exact measurements)
Ideally the rack should apparently be moved UP a little as well.
May not be able to move the rack up as I am trying to LOWER the engine.
So I expect to get improved but not ideal steering.

I think this will also fix the outside wheel turning too far, stock it goes practically sideways!
The stock Ackerman angles are a mess.

The not so fun part looks to be modifying the frame.
I will practice on the old frame that has already been chopped up a bit before making changes to the frame I intend to use.

The other major suspension project will be making new hubs to take my 4x100 MM PCD, 6"x14" Enkie wheels.
The rear is going to get a custom fabricated IRS.
So much for remaining a member in good standing of "Team ¢heap"!

Still utilizing what I have laying around as much as possible.

[Richard/SIA]

Got the old front shocks and springs out tonight.
Shocks may be KONI red adjustable and appear to be in good condition except for paint.

One issue I have had from the start is that I could never get the front end down to a reasonable level.
Even with the engine in and my bouncing on the frame it sat way too high.

Free length of the springs I removed is 13"! (EDIT, confirmed they should be around 9" free length)
Not sure of the rate, don't really care.
The Buick V6 is only a few pounds heavier than the old in-line 6 and will sit further back.
I will start with stock springs from the spare frame, maybe some custom springs later.

With the shocks and sway bar links removed I can finally mock up the front ride height.
That will let me get a better idea of what changes I need to make to correct bump-steer and ground clearance.
Right now the bushings are fighting me, they do not allow free movement of the control arms and spindle.
I will see what I have to do to get easier movement.

It looks like a simple change to Heim joints on spacers may help with the tie-rod angles.
Need to find my book on suspension and look a few things up.

Along those lines, I found a complete '88 Fiero less engine, cheap.
Not sure how well the rear suspension would adapt to the GT6, if at all.

[Richard/SIA]

Eh, the '88 Fiero is a pretty long drive away.
Gas price makes it a little too dear and the bolt circle is wrong.
A shame, looked to be fairly simple to fit and readily available.

I now have a hazy idea of how to do my IRS for the Trick-6.
Of course wanting to use my 4x108 PCD 14" x 6" Enkie (Very light) wheels gets to be an additional issue.

Looks like Ford or Supra diff. will be easiest.
Both can be had with forward mounts that may be close to what I need.
Ford should be unbreakable even with an aluminum carrier, I only have a little V6.
Supra may be smaller and so easier to fit.

Ford appears easier to find, in cast iron.
Supra seems to be a little hard to get, CL sellers don't answer if you live more than a couple of miles away and tend to want high prices despite not even knowing the gear ratio's.

Supra's do show up in the P&P salvage yards, IF you can get there fast enough.
If not they will be on CL a day later, at 5x the price.

Outer end may be simpler if I can use Ford, some are the correct PCD, have to verify that some IRS are still 4 x 108mm.
Also need to confirm a 14" wheel clears.

No matter what I use it's going to be custom control arms.

Found this on the web, from V8S2000 board:

"Ford 8.8 IRS Info
ALL 99/01/03/04 Cobra axles have a 28 Spline outer that goes into the hub

99 Cobra axles have a 28 spline inner that goes into the diff

01 Cobra's came with stronger axles than 99

01/03/04 Cobra axles have a 31 spline inner that goes into the diff

03/04 Cobra's came with stronger axles than 99/01

03/04 Cobra's came with Carbon kevlar clutch packs

03/04 Cobra's came with larger pinion flange than 99/01

All Cobra's came with limited slip

There was not a 2000 or 2002 Cobra released on the american market.


The 8.8 IRS was offered in the following vehicles

99/01/03/04 Cobra

1989-1997 Thunderbird Supercoupe (All Posi-traction)
1992-1997 Thunderbird V-8 models with rear disc brakes(some posi-traction)3.08, 3.27
1992-1997 Lincoln Mark VIII (All aluminum carrier, most non-posi-traction) 3.07, 3.08, 3.27, 3.55, 3.73
1989-1992 Mercury Cougar XR-7, supercharged V-6 (All posi-traction)
1993-1997 Mercury Cougar V-8

02+ Explorer/Mountaineer = 3.55 and 3.73 open, 3.73 LSD , 31 spline

To determine the gear ratio, and whether or not the unit has posi-traction, look at the tag that is attached to one of the differential cover bolts. The first 4 spaces signify the gear ratio and whether or not it has posi-traction. If the unit has posi-traction, then the second space will have an L in it representing (limited slip), the remaining spaces specify the gear ratio. For example, 2 L 7 3 means posi-traction with a 2.73:1 gear ratio. Most people pay a salvage yard between $300-$400 for the donor parts. Also, Ford Motorsports sells a 15lb. lighter aluminum carrier with gears and posi-traction for around $650.

[mgb260]

Richard, I have bad news for you. All the Ford IRS are 5 lug. TBird ,Cougar and Lincoln are 5x4.25, Mustang Cobra are 5x4.5. Look at 90-96 Infinity Q45 R200 3.54 ratio Viscous LS. Popular in TR6's. 6 bolt flange. Then use 2004-2008 F150 front axles With Chevy Cobalt 4 lug hubs. You may need an adapter plate if the 6 bolt pattern is different and the Cobalt hub is 4x100mm, just drill 4x108 pattern  inbetween existing holes in hub. Make your own upright that  is triangular for the hub to bolt to. Here is a pic of the F150 axle:

[Richard/SIA]

Got to love the 'net, several on-line sources say IRS T-Bird and Mustang use 4x108mm PCD.
They also show 5x108MM on the SAME charts.

I expected the five lug for V8's and the four lug on four and six cylinder cars.

Have to run the CNC lathe all day, hoping to get into the salvage yard later this week and have a look.
I will take a look for the suggested parts.

Oh BTW, what make is an "Infinity"?
I do not track vehicles made after about 1970 so have no clue.
Yah, Madison avenue hates me.
I stopped looking at new cars when Gov. Org. took over designing them to protect us from ourselves.

EDIT, Looked up "Infinity" to find it's a fancy Nissan, who used to be Datsun.
Too new for the self-serve salvage yards but I may know one that deals in newer import cars.

[Richard/SIA]

OK, the new 225 head gaskets finally arrived.
Original Buick embossed steel # 1357869
Steel is .025" thick.
They are embossed so I'm not certain of compressed thickness.
The old composite gaskets were .040".

Looks Like I'm buying a Merkur IRS rear end since it's a bit smaller and lighter than T-Bird.
Also uses the correct PCD but I'm disappointed that the U.S. models got drum brakes.
One more thing to upgrade ASAP.
Found a U.S. Merkur club, hope they will talk to me.

[Richard/SIA]

Got a little time late this evening to play with engine position.
It looks like if I remove the mechanical fuel pump and relieve the front of the right side shock tower (Basically cutting off the original engine mount) then fit a remote filter adapter I CAN fit the engine 4" further back and 2" lower!
Right now the front tab of an original Buick engine mount is just BEHIND the rear of the shock tower.
The original conversion had the rear tab in FRONT of the tower.
The front of the cylinder head sits just about even with the top of the suspension upright, middle of the A arm.
The back of the block is about 1" behind the forward most body mounts.
I think that is about as good as I could hope to get.
I will steady my mock-up and drop the body back on long enough to confirm everything clears properly.

I've reached a point where I have to sort out my pulleys vs the steering rack.
Have to research the best rack mounting location too.
I know it needs to be heavily modified to correct the ackerman and bump-steer.
Moving it forward would help with engine fitting, but I think it's recommended to move it back and up for improved geometry.
This will still be a road car, so there are limits to what I can do.
Even less than ideal steering can be much improved over original.

[Richard/SIA]

An idea for steering improvement?

Poking around various forums all sorts of suggestions come up to fix bump-steer.
Seems some racers bend the steering arms for improved geometry.
But I'm not limited by ANY rules and realize that the steering arms are BOLTED on.
So why not just make new arms with corrected geometry?
14" wheels give me a little extra room and I would have an easier engine fit if I move the rack forward about an inch.
I know forward would be bad with the stock arms and rack, but with new arms and a shortened rack maybe I can still improve on it?

Pics of where the engine is sitting now.
Quite a bit further back and about 2" lower.
Original fit had the forward soft mount tab at the front of the tower which forced the engine to sit high.

I cut away the factory and old engine conversion mounts.
With a remote oil adapter and no mechanical fuel pump I now have a fairly good fit.
Looks like I need different engine soft mounts or another inch of rearward movement.

Right side.


Right side close view of mount.


Left side.