LS4 Into an MGB

mgbreis · February 19, 2014, 01:00:26 PM

As an alternative to the bright (expensive) ceramic coating, I have had good luck with the black satin coating from Techline.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tech-Line-Coatings-Black-Satin-Ceramic-Header-Coating-4-Oz,25581.html

britcars · February 19, 2014, 02:45:03 PM

I've ben using Tech Line coatings for many years. Good stuff. You can buy direct from them and save $$$.

http://www.techlinecoatingswebstore.com/Exhaust_Coatings-Exhaust_Coating_Black_Satin_Header_Coating_4oz.html

BlownMGB-V8 · February 19, 2014, 05:24:56 PM

I'll endorse Techline too. I've used their CermaChrome with excellent results but they have a no-polish version that would be easier and claimed to be about as good.

Jim

rficalora · February 19, 2014, 11:20:23 PM

a bit off topic of the thread, but does the ceramachrome look like chrome - as in is it a viable alternative to plating. Plating prices seem to have about trippled in recent years.

MGBV8 · February 23, 2014, 12:55:27 PM

QuoteCarl and/or anyone, can you go into the specifics on how this would help? I can see if you aren't moving and your fan isn't running that having more heat in the engine bay might cause the engine temperature to rise faster. I don't see much advantage if you're going down the road or if your fan is running though.

In a perfect world, we are always moving down the road. No stop lights, no traffic jams, no incredibly slow drive-thrus.

These days you can just about count on some kind of traffic issue on the interstate when traveling.

I can't state that you will have big horsepower gains with ceramic headers. Jet Hot & Swain Coatings do claim better than 50% reduction in radiant heat & surface temps of the headers. That equates to a significant reduction of underhood temps when not moving. Might help with too warm footwells in the Summer, too. For those that don't have holes in their fenderwells, the fan is not always able to push all that hot air out of the engine compartment.

In 13 years my car has never, ever overheated. Even in Texas. Ceramic coated headers & Y-pipe, engine driven fan (instead of puny aftermarket electric), & no holes in the fenderwells. Of course, my car doesn't make much HP, either.

Scott, I understand since you plan to build another set of headers. I'm sure you will be coating those. They will also last much, much longer with an inside/outside coating.

Moderator · February 23, 2014, 04:09:33 PM

I wish Doug Brown were still with us. (Really good guy! Sadly, he passed away shortly after attending our 2012 meet.) Doug owned <a href="http://powdertechcorp.com/">Powder Tech</a>. His guys applied an Electroless Nickel plating to my fuel rail, throttle linkage, etc. Doug and I had also discussed the idea of using the EN on my exhaust headers, after I get around to building them. One big advantage of EN is that it coats the inside and outside of a part equally. Traditional plating leaves the insides of tubes with little or no protection. As I recall, Doug felt that the EN coating would protect my headers very well indeed. However, the color of the headers would be affected by heat. (I think I recall him saying that they'd yellow more than my fuel rail, etc. Typically the Harley Davidson crowd won't accept yellowed chrome, but I couldn't care less.) EN should be significantly cheaper than conventional chrome plating. It doesn't have the environmental issues, and thus the waste disposal costs. The key to a pretty coat of chrome is prep - lots of polishing labor beforehand and more between layers - and chrome shops generally want to keep polishing in-house so they can control quality and also make more money. With EN, you'll probably do nearly all your own prep and there's only one layer. The shops that do EN are typically less concerned about getting a show quality finish, and more concerned about meeting industrial performance requirements. We also talked about how EN could be applied before a ceramic / powder coat coating. When I finally get around to building a new set of headers, I'll look into EN again and let you guys know what I find out.

britcars · February 23, 2014, 10:42:14 PM

Carl, I used Tech Line's Cermakrome on my headers. They were blasted with glass beads after curing in an old kitchen oven. Came out sort of a semi-gloss finish. Five years old with no issues yet.
I also used their PowerKote on the piston tops and combustion chambers (Rover 3.5) and their Dry Film Lubricant (DFL) on the cam, bearings and piston skirts.

302V8 · February 25, 2014, 07:37:40 PM

Your LS4 conversion is looking fantastic Scott ! Well done.
Keep the photo's coming...........

Cheers
Pete

Scott Costanzo · February 26, 2014, 07:33:08 AM

Thanks Pete, I appreciate it. Just got back from vacation so I need to get back at it.

Scott

pspeaks · February 26, 2014, 02:30:32 PM

As we're discussing header coatings I don't think this is much off topic. I'm having my headers ceramic coated and was told even with a coating the heat has to go some place...well, that sounds reasonable to me. Apparently the hot spot is where the header connects to the exhaust pipe which is in the area of the front wheel and brake area. Has anyone experienced a problem with this or is the powder coater just being couscous?

Paul

MGBV8 · February 26, 2014, 03:25:50 PM

Paul, I had both the the headers & the Y-pipe ceramic coated. Hopefully most of the heat goes out the tailpipe.

BlownMGB-V8 · February 26, 2014, 03:36:48 PM

You will have a hot spot somewhere down the pipe past the header, I don't know for sure if this happens with equal length headers though and may check that out later. Anyway the hot spot is where you put your crossover pipe if you have one. The ceramic coating heat shield effect is enough to make the difference between an instantaneous burn on contact, and being able to pull away unharmed.

Jim

Scott Costanzo · March 09, 2014, 09:15:19 AM

Got back out to the garage yesterday, finally! I was a little under the weather with a virus last weekend although I did get some work done on the wiring harness. As you can see below, I got the right hand side manifold fabricated and about halfway welded together.

I'm about 2/3 done with the exhaust at this point and the most of the time consuming fabrication has been completed. I hope 1 or 2 more sessions will get it there.

BlownMGB-V8 · March 09, 2014, 10:23:02 AM

Scott, those headers look good enough that you may decide not to replace them! Most would be quite thrilled with what you have constructed.

Jim

hirot · March 09, 2014, 10:57:09 AM

Paul, I wrapped mine, I don't think we do coating (easily) over hear yet. The headers are wrapped to the bottom of where they all join together. Initially I didn't wrap where the 4 pipes join at the top and the point between the pipes glows cherry red....worrying....wrapped that bit quickly.
The exhaust/header joint doesn't appear to go red or get too hot. However, you don't half get hot feet when you stop in traffic and I mean hot. I wrapped the brake/fuel pipes and wiring near the headers using the slide on tubing and all seems OK. You can hold the headers when the engine is hot.

Still not sure whether it was all a good idea in that I reckon the headers will corrode/crack as all that wrapped heat isn't healthy.

Scot your conversion looks wonderful.

Ian

mgb260 · March 09, 2014, 07:03:10 PM

Scott, Looking good!

RMO 699F · March 09, 2014, 08:31:12 PM

Good work Scott!!

Scott Costanzo · March 09, 2014, 09:27:05 PM

Thanks for the compliments everyone, I appreciate it!

74ls1tr6 · March 10, 2014, 12:03:37 PM

Question Scott?

Where you engine is mounted now, would there be enough room to run the header collector, down along the frame rail along with the primary tubes? I'm going to attempt this if it is possible with our GT!

Scott Costanzo · March 10, 2014, 03:05:30 PM

Calvin,
Interesting question. Quick answer is no. Where the engine is sitting at the moment, I don't see how you'd find room for 4 pipes in any configuration. Believe me, I HATED cutting into the fender well so I thought long and hard about how it could be done. I believe I could have snaked a 2 inch pipe between the starter and the motor mount on the passenger side but only just...I don't believe a 2.5 inch pipe would fit. On the driver's side, depending on where you place your steering, there is a bit more room along side the engine. I considered building something similar to what I have now and routing the header pipe around the outside of the steering shaft and then down and out the bottom. In the end, it would have taken more time to do that and if I ever hoped to go to a real set of headers, I would have to go through the fender well anyway. That's how I ended up where I am.

It might be possible if you moved your engine rearward another 3 or 4 inches and went with head mounted motor mounts. You would still have to get creative with routing your header pipe though and you might have to go with a smaller diameter header pipe than you'd like to get it all to fit. I think it's one of those things where you'd have to try it to see if it would work. I'd be very interested to see what you come up with...hope you share some pictures with us.

Scott

Scott Costanzo · March 16, 2014, 06:39:34 PM

Made a little more progress again this weekend. This first shot shows the right hand side manifold pretty much welded up. The only welding remaining is the front primary tube (#2) to the flange. Not real happy with the welds but there shouldn't be many leaks if any. I'll check for leaks after I finish the front tube.

This next picture shows the other side of the fender well.

Didn't quite have the time to finish the exhaust back to the existing portion I have done but really close. I hope one more session will get me there for both sides. It is time consuming but I'm not complaining.

classic conversions · March 18, 2014, 06:57:46 PM

You just increase your engine torque with the Tri Y header set up. nice.

Planing on doing the similar for the headers for our V8 Ford kit.

Scott Costanzo · March 26, 2014, 07:54:40 PM

Got to within about 2-3 hrs. of completing the headers/manifolds and joining them up with my existing exhaust. Here is the drivers side in the wheel well.

Except for completing the welding on the collector flange on this header/manifold, both sides are complete. I just need to finish the driver's side down pipe back to the existing exhaust and I should be there. I'm going to hold off for just a little bit on the O2 bungs. I want to get the wiring routed to make sure I have them in the optimum spot. This next picture gives an overhead view of the engine with the manifolds in place.

This next picture shows a top view of the engine/firewall. (I suddenly got the idea of doing overhead shots if you haven't noticed

)

So I've been planning how I want to handle the remaining tasks and decided to finish the wiring harness and getting it completely installed in the car...this really isn't a change. After the wiring will be putting the firewall back together and then doing most of the engine tasks which, as I've mentioned before, include a new timing cover, front and rear crank seals, swapping the valve covers from side to side, mounting flywheel/clutch and other minor tasks. The goal is to get the engine permanently installed and then handle the remaining tasks. If I get the above done by the beginning of June, I may have an outside chance of making the meet. I just noticed Larry's post about the dyno at the V8 Meet and I'd sure like to get this thing on one.

MGBV8 · March 26, 2014, 08:24:05 PM

Scott, thanks for the new engine bay view!

Scott Costanzo · April 01, 2014, 08:04:24 PM

The exhaust is more or less done. It was a bit of a frustrating weekend. What should have taken around 2 hours ended up taking about 5. Then I was just about done welding things up and ran out of welding wire. Oh well. I didn't get very good pictures either unfortunately. I ran out to the garage quickly during lunch and snapped a few. Here is one of the driver's side down pipe.

It and the rest of the exhaust are all bolted together and on the car so it was good seeing that. I'll need about another hour or so to finish welding it up.

I bolted the coils back on the heads and set the intake on the engine in preparation for continuing with the wiring. It's nice to see it sort of back together now with the manifolds in place....as I keep saying, bit by bit.

I'm in the process of mounting the throttle body so I can get the wiring to it done. I hope to start to see some major progress on the wiring in the next couple of weeks. I've got a list of stuff to get at the junkyard including pieces for the harness so I'll have to plan a trip for this month.

On a slightly different subject, I have to get the drive shaft shortened by about a 1/2"-3/4". Found a local place that will do it so that is on the list now too.

I hope the pace picks up a little now that the weather is starting to warm up. I am really pleased that I was able to make as much progress as I did considering the lousy weather we've had this winter. I think I was able to accomplish something every weekend I had time to work on the car.