VW Diesel

[BlownMGB-V8]

But I'm INNOCENT!!!!

Jim

[MGB-TDI]

xD, yeah... I love mom so much but well, I can never say anything bad about her she's awesome <3. And yes i might fear for dad's safety...

-Matt

[MGB-TDI]

Wow... that light? That is certantly interesting in terms of weight distribution in the car. 280 is nothing. Makes me wonder how the car's weight balance will be. Maybe if i add a blower in the front i could fix the weight problem.... NO. Sorry there, that's dad subliminally messing with my mind and trying to convince me that all cars should run a supercharger.

-Matt

[mgb260]

Matthew, You can also find shortblocks,heads,parts and rebuild kits on EBay. Every once in a while a complete motor.

[MGB-TDI]

Good to know... I'll do some browsing on eBay..

-Matt

[74ls1tr6]

Matthew,

This is the response I received back from my brother through email! After I received this email from my brother, he called for some other business; he said another idea for a swap engine for more power would be the Subaru boxster diesel? He also said the Passat 1984 to 1986 TDI are the years before fly by wire throttle. From what my brother said below, may want to check out the Toyota 4x4 forums?

Email:

Hi Calvin,
     All of my TDI contacts are in the UK unfortunately. His best bet is to find an old Passat which has been wrecked and buy it for the    engine. Everyone is wanting those engines. Believe it or not theToyota 4x4 owners are swapping them into their rigs as fast as they    can find them.

    Britt


    On 6/15/2012 6:32 AM, Calvin Grannis wrote:    



Hi Britt,

 

There is a 16 year old that is thinking of swapping in a TDI diesel engine in a MGB. He is looking for one on the cheap. Do you have any contacts for this in the states, or out of the states? Not to new of an engine.

[mgb260]

Matthew, I was curious about what Kelly mentioned about the gear ratios for the TDI. Stock had a 3.39 differential ratio,3.45 first and .75 5th(OD). If you could find the rare 3.31 MGC gears it would be ideal. The Toyota W55 transmission is pretty close with a 3.5 first. You can find it in 84-88 Toyota 2WD 4 cylinder pickups(check the door data plate). That would also be the bellhousing and flywheel you need. 3.31 ratio was common in Jeep Wagoneer' Dana 44's also. Some years(Quadratrac) had an offset differential so it may be possible to shorten the long side and use another short axle to narrow it. Might be close to MGB width,you would have to measure to be sure.

[MGB-TDI]

That is good information that i must keep in mind, but finding the engine is being a pain. Or rather, finding an engine for under 1k is a pain...

-Matt

[mgb260]

For that price you probably have to find a private guy parting a wrecked one out.  They are in demand for the Toyota 4X4 and Samurai conversions. I think Calvin meant 94-98 for years.

[rficalora]

Matt, have you checked Craigslist?  This was in the Houston CL but phone number is California so may not work for you but worth checking... http://galveston.craigslist.org/ptd/2969899198.html.  Also LKQ Online might be a source.

[BlownMGB-V8]

We saw a tdi yesterday and there are only three issues, but they are serious ones.

The engine is tall. More measuring is needed and a lot depends on how far the engine can be set back in the chassis but right now it looks like 3 inches would have to come out of the crossmember and that is a seriously deep cut.

The oil filter/cooler housing is bolted to the right rear of the block dead square in the way of the steering shaft. A remote mount is needed and it doesn't look simple.

The turbo is mounted low on the left and will almost certainly want to go where the frame rail is, especially after the crossmember is cut. Even if not, the exhaust vane controller will. That means a custom exhaust and an aftermarket exhaust scroll.

We need to do some more measuring and go out and look as that engine again but given the cost and the added complexity right now it isn't looking really great for this swap.

Otoh, the tdi guy we met thinks an average of 50+ mpg is very likely, headers will be needed in any case, filter relocation is pretty commonplace, and with enough setback it might fit under an RV8 hood. So we shall see. There is still the matter of the cost of course.  

Jim

[rficalora]

Jim & Matt - had an idea...  what do you think of a semi-custom cross member by grafting in some rectangular tube to replace the center section of the stock cross member.  Retain the mounting points out.

[Dan B]

Can you modify the oil pan?

[MGB-TDI]

HA! I just mentioned modifying the oil pan to Dad. xD Looking into it. It looks pretty flat and it is kinda deep so it seems likely to be a possiblility, but I need to look at the engine again to make sure. If i can get an inch more clearance from the oil pan, I will only need to take out 2 inches of the crossmember. Grafting in rectangular tubing is a valid idea, but it is something i would perfer to use as a last resort. The more stock MGB parts I can use, the easier this will be. Hopefully I can avoid modifying the crossmember more than a cut.

-Matt

[mgb260]

It looks like a short lengthwise engine as most transverse FWD engines are. If you lose the heater shelf and set back like a lot of Midget conversions do,that would put it behind the crossmember. You can use a small street rod heater under the dash. It is slanted slightly also,so maybe slant more or less for clearance there. Of course then the shifter would be too far back. If you use the Toyota R style bellhousing (large pattern) and use the Colorado/Canyon transmission(more forward shifter) might be perfect.

[Dan B]

Jim N,
I saw where you had started a thread about transmissions on another forum and Mark Taylor in Colorado posted that he was doing this swap.  Have you heard anything else from him?

[mgb260]

Dan, I have had PM's from Mark but more on the adapter than anything. I know he's using a W58(Celica GT/Supra) transmission and a 2004 1.9 TDI. Also a ECU chip upgrade. I think he is doing the install and documenting it in a week or two. I haven't heard of any fitment issues.

[MGB-TDI]

Well I have found a guy with a TDI engine that has been declared unrebuildable that will allow us to test fit it in the MG. Hopefully that will sort out the issues on what needs to be modified to get this to fit. Also, he needs the transmission from a TDI but not an engine, so he is willing to split the cost on one that has been rolled into a ball. It seems that getting an engine for less than 1.5k may be viable.

-Matt

[MGB-TDI]

The engine fit MUCH better than expected.

It is so stubby it can fit behind the crossmember. This means that the only issue with size now is width. It seems that in order to get that to work, the oil filter will have to be relocated. Not a massive deal, but any suggestions with that are appreciated.

Got some pics below of the test fit engine in the car, along with the newly set up engine hoist . Enjoy, and any comments are much appreciated.

-Matt

[mgb260]

Matt,Cool! Most FWD engines are short. If you use the homemade Toyota adapter look for a 84-88 2WD 4 cylinder Toyota pickup for the bellhousing ,flywheel and W55 5 speed. Data plate on door. You don't want W56 as it has a stump puller first.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Another thing we discussed was the possibility of using the MG engine plate. IIRC it is 3/8" thick steel, about the right configuration, and has a big concentric hole for the crank. It will accept the MG bellhousing already meaning it should be easy to mate that to the TDI engine. Then just add the pattern for the Toyota and that will work too. Add the small GM corporate pattern and the T-5 will also work.

Jim

[mgb260]

Jim, Dave Headley found in his MGB to T5 adapter with the small corporate bell he had to use the early smaller flywheel(3 main)and starter.I know you can make anything work,just trying to help.

[Moderator]

Awesome news!

Now... can I recommend a really good digital camera that will only set you back about $40-50 used? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLASSIC-CANON-POWERSHOT-G2-DIGITAL-POINT-AND-SHOOT-/360469116722?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item53eda23732  (The tilt/swivel LCD makes the G-series cameras ideal of close-up and detail photos of car parts. Build quality on these was outstanding. They were ~$800/new back in the day.)

[Dan B]

Yeah Jim, you have got to get Matt a camera!!!

That is great news on the fitment.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Got outbid on that one, we'll see.
Been learning a bit about these turbo diesels. Since compression is critical, what would the typical reading for an 18.5:1 engine be? 16 x18.5? That would be 296 psi. Does that sound right? Also, I have this fairly new HF leak down tester but I never did figure out how to use it. Seems like now might be a good time but the directions seem to be quite confused. A link to the correct proceedure would be most helpful.

Diesels run on oil, and a turbo has the potential to make up for leaky rings, so I can see where this combination could result in the sort of damage seen in the scrap engine we are using for test fitting. It ran away, bent and broke all the rods and put a hole in the block. Quite a pretty sight. But it makes me think in different terms about oil consumption. Bad rings + heavy throttle (needed because of low power) = broken parts. So the rings and the valve guides and seals really need to be in very good condition. Just another reason why these are expensive engines I guess.

Once we get a pan, damper, and a valve cover on the engine and get it blocked up in position where we can unhook from the hoist we will be able to test fit the hood and see what will have to be done with the oil filter/cooler assembly. But that won't be likely until after Thursday. At this point I think the filter assembly will have to be replaced and it is highly ugly anyway. So I will suggest that Matthew disassemble it and clean it up so we can do a proper autopsy. One possible option might be to section the area between the mount and the body and heli-arc it back with a different angle so it clears the steering. However a more conventional remote mount and external oil cooler might be a better solution.

Jim