RV8 Custom crank

[roverman]

Of"'Wildcat" of Wales,NOT an ENDORSEMENT !  If someone is "bent" on pushing a cast crank.CRYO IT !!  They will need all the help possible, to last. A well done 4340 forging should do the job. Light dampener and aluminum flywheel with small dia 2 disc set up. Onward, roverman.

[rrrover 5L]

Thanks Art, I guess I'd go straight to TRS now that I have that information. Repco here in OZ used to make flanged sleeves, then spun that part off as ACL, bought by Mahle & not making them anymore....ACL still make great bearings, though. For Buick, Rover & P76 4.4 versions fit the 4.0-4.6....

Julian- I'm interested to hear what Moldex come back with price wise. A friend has a Laystall UK billet in a Rover V8 but I dont think they are in business any more? Gordon Allen was another UK outfit who made nice cranks...Did an MGA stroker some years ago

John

[Wotland]

Arts I would not be so septic on cast cranks. They were used with success in race rover v8 cars.

Look Grp A SD1 and TVR Tuscan challenge, both cast cranks and can hold 7000RPM without problem.

[Wotland]

I think Auscrank can supply RV8 Billet crank : http://www.crankshaftrebuilders.com.au/billet_cranks.htm and may be in UK here : http://allencrankshaft.co.uk/crankshafts.html

[BlownMGB-V8]

I regularly ran a stock cast Buick 215 crank to 7 grand and it lasted about 20K miles until one of the piston skirts cracked.

Jim

[roverman]

Clan, TA ported heads" should" make max power at 7,500 and beyond, depending on cam, inches, etc. Cast crank, 600 hp and 7,500 + rpm in road racing- good luck !  You'll need it, roverman.

[jfjfjf2]

Laystall no longer make cranks, just cylinder liners. Auscrank price suggest they don't want the job. Allen cranks you have to go through the middle man, Racing green and they are not lightweight cranks.

Julian

P.s. John, I've done an extensive search but couldn't find any info on the John Davis halo. Any idea if he still makes them?

[roverman]

Send me a drawing. I have material and waterjet access-no drawing. "Picture of girdle/halo looks strong enough,(if it's 7075 T6 alum.). I feel it needs more oil drainback under rear main and cam drive areas. Thanks, roverman.

[rrrover 5L]

Julian - http://www.davisperformance.com

Jim - In my experience its the revs & harmonics created by over-run and downshifts on slick tyred race cars that cast cranks dont seem to like.
I've seen 4.6 ones, that have been well prepared,(Tuftrided, internally balanced etc) stand up to severe duty for a period and then let go...Quite spectacularly in some cases. I'm with you as regards street...20,000 miles in a high performance, part time use, car would take me years.

Ian Shugg @ Auscrank is a Rover enthusiast. It was he who told me that Ford cranks could be made fit Rovers some 28 years ago. I plan to use him to do some work on my Bryant crank. Back in the 80's he ground & clearanced a Datsun 180B crank (Nice steel forging) to fit a Lotus 1600. Worked out a fraction of the cost of Allen or Cosworth alternatives. A very clever operator.

Cheers

John

[roverman]

John, Perhaps Mr. Shugg knows of a raw forging or semi-finished L4 crank that will finish machine to fit the Lotus 907 engine,(4.25" bore centers) ? 2.2L cast cranks are silly expensive. Thanks, roverman.

[rrrover 5L]

I've PM'ed you on that Art.

I will try & post some shots of the Bryant Ford crank in the next 24

Has anyone got a 340/350 crank working in a Rover block yet? I seem to recall pictures of one partially fitted in a 4.6 block
destined for an Alfa ??

John

[roverman]

John, Might be better to use OZ 4.4L block,(P76) ? I've heard 427 Ford main bearings are best compromise dia. 2.75". #3 will need narrowing.  Good Luck, roverman.

[roverman]

IMHO., "knife edge" in a wet sump, not good. Dry sump not so critical. I like the leading edge shape on Lunati counterweights, shears oil/windage away from rod areas,(biggest contributors), over radiused surface to main support areas,(more effective scraper areas). While we're at it, lets put scrapers "inside" the pendulum undercut areas of the counterweights. Onward, roverman.

[rrrover 5L]

I've had a fair bit to do with the Leyland 4.4 over the years......higher deck, 3.5 stroke & 4.6 size mains.

A friend has one in a Elfin formula 5000 that dates back to the 70's...Lucas mechanical injection with huge trumpets looks great.

I think it recently received either Wildcat or TA heads, too.

It has a Laystall crank....4.4 cast item not good enough for that kind of duty

Cheers

John

[Wotland]

Terrier truck crank is steel forged.

[djw090]

"Terrier truck crank is steel forged"

That is an interesting comment. The Leyland Terrier was manufactured in the UK and is listed as using the 4.4L version of the RV8. That size was only otherwise used in Australia with local maufacture. Earlier posters have indicated the Australian engines to have cast cranks. If the Terrier was using engines brought in from Australia you might expect it to use the same crank. However, you could understand it having a special crank if it was an "odd" size being made in the UK just for the Terrier.

Does anyone have any information on this?

[Wotland]

I had the confirmation Terrier used steel forged crank by an ex JRA engineer.

[roverman]

Since we're chasing rainbows, why not the forged Iceberg cranks for the deisel conversion of the RV8 ?

[rrrover 5L]

David, having stripped many Terrier engines in search of the mythical forged crank, I'm yet to find one:-(

Leyland used to quote a part number and price of $1300.00 for them in the late 70's, but understandably, no takers. Terrier engines were distinguished from P76 one's by red as opposed to blue rocker covers.

Somewhat ironically, Leyland Australia closed an MGB manufacturing & assembly line in 1972 to make the P76....

Art, most if not all of those Iceberg cranks were purchased by Vitesse developments here in Melbourne in 1988 and used in 4.2 conversions mainly fitted to brand new Range Rovers.  The chap who ran this business's name escapes me, but I think he returned to UK.

I have one of these cars & did think the crank had a forged & hardened appearance at the flange end when I replaced a flex plate...Never had the sump off...I did enquire with one of the Vitesse employees whether it was a forging & he said no, but if they are, then there's plenty around...Might have to buy a whole car though....They were fitted with Motec ecu, too.
If someone has connections with an ex Rover special projects employee, it may be possible to get some more information on this.

cheers,

John

[roverman]

Nothing diverts forward momentum like a well placed tangent. That being said, the "sample" 4.6L rover crank is being shiped to Scat, this week. Meanwhile, I shall make a basic dimensional drawing. Onward, roverman.

[Wotland]

John,

You speak of John Smith. It is the ex JRA engineer who told me Terrrier crank is forged.

John now lives in Uk at Newry (Nothern Ireland).

Now about "Iceberg crank", I have one used in Tuscan Challenge engine.
It is just cast in better molecular structure.

Cheers.

[rrrover 5L]

Hmmm, next time I come across a Terrier engine I'll take a REALLY critical look at the crank....Maybe I've mistaken a parting line for a molding line.

That being said, Leyland sponsored John Mc Cormack's Leyland powered F5000 efforts out here back in the 70's and I'm fairly sure they had Laystall make cranks due to lack of off the shelf forging?? A friend has the Elfin MR7 car. The ex F1 McLaren version which won the Formula 5000 series here ended up back in UK as an F1 again.

Legendary engineer Phil Irving had input into engine and cylinder head development for these cars. Several sets of "Heron" heads were produced,too.

Cheers

John

[jfjfjf2]

Art - Good news about crank to Scat, thanks for stepping into the breach. I got the crank out of my old engine but the cost of sending it over and retrieving it with the possibility of it being a wild goose chase is prohibitive. I was just about to order from over here but I'll hold off for now. Cross over manifold arrived today, now have to decide on throttle bodies.

Julian

[roverman]

Why did they put it "there" ? Rover V8's and sbb's have it on #3. This happens to be the "nodal" area of the crank as far as power pulse/torsional deflections. I suspect this why Buick/Olds engineers chose #3 to reduce flange wear, do to harmonics. The flip side of this is, all of the pressure plate clamp load is transfered to this area, when clutch is disengaged. This means a zigzag loading of up to 3k lbs. tranfers back to flywheel. Sbc, on the other hand has thrust bearing at #5. Perhaps for this reason ? Cheers, roverman.

[Wotland]

SBF SVO have it also on #3  no ?