engine oil control

[crashbash]

What do you BOP/Rover engine builders think about crank scrapers and windage trays?   Looks like oil splash is lubrication and heat control for pistons and oil supply for connecting rods.  Is there a problem with eliminating too much splash?  Engine with full floating pins and forged pistons?  My MGB rods have squirter hole on top of rods big ends.  Is this old technology and unnecessary these days?

[Moderator]

For street use?  My opinion... Relax. Don't worry. Why would someone re-engineer a classic engine that works great?  Get the basics right (e.g. seals that don't leak), then turn your attention elsewhere. A nice exhaust system? EFI? Rear axle? Etc. - If you were racing, every single hp would matter. In a 2300# street car with maybe 200 reliable ponies at hand anyhow, the fancy engine internals don't add much value and you should only do them if they make you happy.

[crashbash]

This is not going to be a mild engine build, but yes it will be driven on the street and autocrossed.  I'm sure I'm going through a lot more hassle than I need to considering the weight to hp ratio of these swaps.  But I like details and anything that will contribute to bullet proofing an engine is on my list to consider and makes me happy.    I have built several engines, 1.8L MGB, 3L MGC, and SBCs, some to stock/backyard specs and some to blue printed/ balanced spec. Only one sloppy build blew up quicker that it should have.  I have always wished I had done that just one more detail.  So anyones advice and experience would be appreciated in this discussion.           dave bash

[BlownMGB-V8]

It depends on your expected speed range. For sustained high RPM use (racing) these devices help keep the oil in the pan rather than in the crank windage and up in the top end. For street or autocross you are probably better off leaving it open for better lubrication and piston cooling.

But by all means, do pay attention to the pressurized oiling system.

Jim

[crashbash]

Yes Master Jim, I mean Doc,  I have certainly been following those threads.  rereading and reading, taking notes, etc.  You all certainly have a lot to say about things at times!

 I'm interested in hearing from anyone on their successes and failure related to these engines.  Your statement about .001" bearing clearance piqued my interest.  I'm not sure my machinist will agree but I am paying him after all.  I do know for certain that plastigage is not 100% reliable.

What's your thought on "coatings for pistons, intake/exhaust ports while were at it?  I don't like the idea of something that will wear off on high milage engine use

[Bill Young]

I'm certainly not a big time engine builder, but I'd think the crank scraper would be overkill and not worth the effort or expense for your puropses. As for the windage tray, that would be a good idea and doesn't have to be built on the main studs, a perfectly acceptable one can be easily built into the oil pan making it much easier to install. The windage tray wouldn't affect oil splash cooling to the pistons much, most of that comes right off the crank at the rod journals, but it would reduce drag on the crank due to the oil in the pan being stirred up by the crank motion. For any engine built for anything but all out racing I tend to build for reliability instead of maximum performance. In that case keeping everything well lubricated would be more important than gaining a few horsepower at the expense of reliability.
As we found out on the RV8 oil drainback is probalby the most important area to address on the Buick/Rover engine if you run any sustained high rpm time.

[roverman]

David, If you checked the archives, all this has been chatted-ad-nausium. Remote resovoirs, windage trays,etc-etc. Good Luck, roverman.

[crashbash]

Thanks Art I have at one time or another probably read every issue from number one.  I'm late to this game unlike some of you.  I suspect you are bored and tired of these subjects but I'm not yet, so forgive me.   There may be other people in the World that are looking to make simular decissions on their engines or even get into one of these or not. Other builders enthusiasm affect what people may decide to do or not do.   So I don't think it is a mute point to rehash a lot of info that is scattered in the British V8 web site.   Thanks for sharing any good or semi relevant info everyone.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Initially coatings were used for racing only and had a pretty limited life but they've gotten better. Jim Weiss (Buick guru) has stated that teflon bearing coatings allow clearances to go down to as small as .0005" on the crank and rods. He is a very successful engine builder so I don't doubt his word, but you know everything has to be perfect for those kind of clearances to work.

Coatings for pistons are now commonly used in production engines built for long service life. But like all things, the devil is in the details.

"Doc"

[DiDueColpi]

From my perspective David, anything that can keep the oil down in the oilpan is a positive.
Windage trays are pretty much standard on any kind of  factory performance engine since the early 90's
Crank scrapers are becoming more prevalent as well.
If the OEM bean counters are allowing this, then there must be some benefit I would think.
Splash lubrication is going to happen no matter what you do.
The inside of your engine is simply a giant oil leak.
Oil doesn't really circulate as much as it gets thrown everywhere.
Rod, main and cam bearings shed oil, lifters and rockers leak, the oil pump bypasses.
It's a miracle that the oil can return to the pump pickup at all.
So in my mind windage trays and scrapers are just a minimum.
On top of that crankcase breathing is mandatory.
These days high tech coatings are a no brainer.
If you want to stay on top of the pile you need to use them.
Even on a commuter car engine they have their place.
Remember our engines have been around for roughly 1/2 of the automotive revolution.
Things have change somewhat in that time.
Cheers
Fred