EFI tuning, taking it to the next level

[MG four six eight]

I'm in the process of upgrading from Mega-squirt II to Mega-squirt III.
First step is data collection, I all ready have a wide band O2 system. However I wanted to see how each cylinder is doing, since MSIII has the ability to tune each cylinder seperately!

The pictures are of a input/output extender and logger board module from JB performance. The module can be built to perform all most any function. Here's what I'm having perform
Monitor 8 EGT sensors
Monitor RPM and vacuum/boost
Monitor a knock signal from a GM knock sensor system
Monitor vehicle speed.
Monitor acelerometer reading from the built-in acelerometer
Future uses include boost solenoid control
Cooling fan control
Baro sensor readings for MSIII
and CAN comunication with MSII

The board is populated with the surface mount componets. Since the board can be used for many things and no two guys are going to use them for the same function. It is up to the user to install the misc resistors, diodes,etc.
The good news is Jean, the owner of the company who makes the I/O and logger boards, is very helpfull about instructing me how to assemble it!
While it is a do it yourself kit type of project. With help from Jean and others on the jbperf.com forums, it's coming along nicely.

[MG four six eight]

The photos below show the assemble Input/Output extender, EGT logger module.
On one end is the slot for SD card recording and the slot for connecting a USB mini cord to a laptop.
The software used for viewing the data is Tuner Studio.
The other end shows the main harness attachment (DB37 connector) and the slot for where the EGT probe wires attach.
Also a view of the module installed under the dash on the drivers side.

[MG four six eight]

Pic's of the EGT sensors installed. Sensors are located 1 5/8" from the exhaust port. It is important for the sensors to be an equal distance from the port, for consistant temp readings.
The angle iron was used as a jig, to hold the sensor bungs in the correct location during welding.

[MG four six eight]

Sequential fuel injection requires a cam sensor, to tell the ECM, is the cylinder is on a compression or exhaust stroke.
I used the top half of a Ford V6 cam sensor. Then machined it to fit on to the top of a shortened Buick 215 distributor.
The sensor is a single tooth VR type.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Nice work Bill!

Makes me wonder if that I/O board could run my AA80E transmission.

JB

[MG four six eight]

Thanks Jim
I would think that it could. Not sure how many shift solenoids the AA80E has. I know that the I/O board can be populated with up to 6 high current drivers. Most of the transmissions that I have had apart have between 3 to 5. Two or three shift solenoids, a TCC solenoid, and a pressure control solenoid.

Bill

[BlownMGB-V8]

Might need two boards then. It has 9 solenoids and most of them are PWM. Lots of inputs too. But that's another option for me to look into over the winter.

I really do like the work you've done on your car Bill. As one of the few LBCs with a blown and injected BOPR it's not just unique but a very sweet custom build as well. I don't think we hear from you nearly as often as some of us would like either. Keep up the good work!

JB

[MGB-FV8]

Bill, I don't have a clue as of what you do for a living but I bet that engineering comes to mind for anyone looking over your car.  I've tried every possible way that I could think of to mount a blower on my 331 Ford small block but every supercharger I've tried were too wide to allow for enough room to install injector bongs.  I had purchased a used B & M supercharger intake on ebay with the intent to do the same set up as yours; no need to say that the intake is now for sale.

I've also spent hours cruising the 5.0 Mustang web sites in search of a way to use the EEC-IV system with the Explorer DIS system (crankshaft fired).  I did not want to use the ODB-II Explorer computer as we all know is tied to too many emission restrictions.  Megasquirt was supposed to come out with a sequential system for Ford but it seems that it never materialized.  I'm a firm believer in the superiority of the sequential injection versus bank injection.  It has tested over and over to deliver better performance and MPG alike.

Anyway, I wanted to praise you in the cleanliness of your designs, it makes me drool every time that I look at the photos of your car.

Jacques

[MG four six eight]

Thanks Jacques!

I agree about the squential injection, it has several advantages. Mainly I'm looking to improve in-town driveability and city fuel mileage. Not that its bad now, it's just that I work on new(er) cars all day. So I get to see the real advantage that the latest automotive computer controls has to offer!
I'm a tech at a GM dealership. I mostly do driveability and electrical work, so this is kinda right up my alley!

Bill

[MGB-FV8]

"Drivability tech", that explains a whole lot.  In our shop our mechanics can advance/promote through ASE certifications.  Out of 36 mechanics, only 6 have achieved that level.  It is a very hard certification and I can honestly say that these 6 guys are our best mechanics.  Some guys will be fore ever stuck on brakes and suspension as higher intellect are definitely required to achieve "Master Tech" and "Advance Drivability" status.  Being 58 years old, I'm old school trying to catch up and being semi-retired it's hard to keep up with technology.

Since you work for a GM dealership, I assume that you're aware that the "Tech II" scanner is being phased out; no more upgrades will be offered and like Ford it is being moved to laptop software base.  My company sends us to most new vehicle technology overviews that manufacturers offer; just like you, I love hearing about the new technology integrated in these vehicle.  One example is when I found out that our K-9 Suburban had a camshaft phaser engineered in their 6.0 Liters, which quickly explained how their OHV engines are keep up with others in modern horsepower.

Do you have any ideas as of how I could combine the properties of the Explorer's (5.0L) DIS with the EEC-IV computer?  The explorer uses the cam sensor in place of the distributor to announce the camshaft position.  I would like to modify it for two reasons, (first) to achieve a zero ignition variation, (second) by eliminating the distributor, it frees up room in front of the engine different blower configurations and front intake inlet.  Some guys would argue that it doesn't worth the headache but gear heads do a lot of things that fall short of practicality for bragging rights (LOL).

Good luck with your project and keep the photos coming.

Jacques

[MG four six eight]

Jacques

It's been awhile since I played with EEC-IV! I assume that you want to use the Explorer's EDIS ignition with  the pre-OBDII EEC-IV ECU?
You may be able to use a 95 4.6L EEC-IV ECU, since that engine also used EDIS. Although the timing curve in the ECU would probably be a little off for the 5.0L.
Best option might be to go with Mega-squirt III, then you can program your timing table. It also allows you to retard the timing by varying amounts, for a given boost pressure. Should be able to use the Explorer's cam sensor as well.

Yeah, the Tech 2 is slowly being phased out after all these years! Any new model coming out is using what we call GDS or Global Diagnosic System. It is indeed PC based, and I have a shinny new laptop to use at work! At this point the system is not "back dateable" to pre-GDS cars, so the good old Tech 2 will be with us for a little while anyway!

Bill

[MGB-FV8]

Bill, the reason I went with the EEC-IV (ODB-I) is that it escapes all of the changes that take place inside the computer after a code is set off like on the ODB-II.  I've purchased a TWEECER "R" to change/manipulate timing and fuel tables on the OE ECU.  

Megasquirt two years ago, was supposed to have a Ford version that would plug directly into the OE harness (ODB-I); everyone is still waiting for it.  Anderson Racing makes a nice unit but a bit pricy.

The distributor provides two necessary signals to the computer for fuel and timing; there's actually a way to use the DIS but you lose the sequential fuel injection and turn it to a bank injection.  Deep electronics understanding is my weakness; as you probably well know, pulling codes and diagnostics are one thing but understanding a system enough to modify it is another thing.

In another area, the EEC-IV was used for long time by the F-1 people with great success but that was long time ago.  Now, if I could only find that EEC-IV Guru willing to help but that be too easy (LOL)

Jacques

[MG four six eight]

Jacques

Looks like DIY has a plug and play Mega-Squirt for Ford EEC-IV. http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/models.html
Just another option, if the EEC-IV doesn't work out for you.
Bill

[MGB-FV8]

Thanks Bill, however after taking a look at the link, I still don't see where they offer the sequential function or the integration of the EDIS.  If I can't find a decent system, I'm going to see how far I can push the techs at TWEECER-RT for fine tuning (LOL) My main desire is to recalibrate the timing and fuel curve to the vehicle weight and camshaft power band.  It would be nice to run a distributorless system but I don't think that the money I'll have to spend justifies the small gain from it.

EDIS would be an interesting upgrade to modernize the car and eliminate fluctuation but it can always be done later.  Please make sure to post the final results on your modifications, it always really keeps me curious/attentive to these great success stories.

Jacques

[BlownMGB-V8]

Jacques, I ran the EEC IV and EDIS on my engine for awhile (distributorless) (215 with blower) and used the Tweecer before removing the whole works and going to MS. My experience was that it was difficult to tune and had a great number of unexplained tuning parameters so a great deal of the time I was shooting in the dark. (Mustang SN-95 controller, before that Crown Vic). From the very beginning I had a mid-range surge and was never able to tune it out. In exasperation I finally ripped out the whole system and installed the MS. Immediately tuning and driveability improved and I never looked back. I don't think the loss of sequential made any noticeable difference. YMMV

JB

[Dan B]

Doesn't the new MegaSquirt allow for sequential?

Dan B

[MGB-FV8]

Thanks guys for all the answers, I've followed Bill's link and used their MS message link to inquire about a plug and play that would carry EDIS and sequential injection; supposedly, it's now do-able, here's their reply:

Hello Jacques,

The basic plug and play setup is a bank to bank setup intended for TFI.
If you want to go with sequential fire and distributorless ignition, we
have another option. You would start with an MS3 and wire it to a DIYBOB
to make an adapter that is mostly plug and play:

http://www.diyautotune.com/diybob/index.html

This would take a bit of soldering, but is better suited to applications
that are going to need a bit of wiring regardless. Let me know what you
think.

Thanks,

Matt Cramer
DIYAutoTune.com Support

[MG four six eight]

I have the I/O, logger boards up and running now. It's pretty cool! I can read live data, as well as data log 8 EGTs, MAP, RPM, vehicle speed and acelerometer readings!
I still need to do some more reading about using the acelerometer and calibrate it.
The EGTs are working nicely, and the temps are fairly close at cruise and WOT. There is some improvement to be had at idle and low throttle/decel engine loads. I should be able to dial those areas in when I switch to MSIII and fully sequential injection.

The parts arrived the other day to upgrade my MSII to MSIII/MSX and I hope to start on the ECU upgrade soon!

Attached is a couple pic's of my laptop displaying Tuner Studio with my custom I/O logger module gauges. Note: the EGT display is after I shut the engine off and the sensors were starting to cool down,

Bill

[BlownMGB-V8]

That is just too cool Bill!

Did you have to get into much programming to get the gages you wanted and the datalogging you wanted? I never got past the standard displays and the spreadsheet datalog myself and basically gave up on it at that point. I could sure use some help on it next summer...

JB

[MG four six eight]

Jim

Yeah it did take some figuring out! Fortunately the guys over at the JBperf forums are a big help.
Also my brother the electrical engineer was VERY helpful when it came time to edit the ini files for me! He understands the math needed to convert the raw data into usable readings much better then I do!!
Now that I have seen it done and played around with some I understand it much better now. I would be happy to help you out if I can.

Bill

[BlownMGB-V8]

Thanks Bill, you're a godsend. I probably won't get much done on it over the winter, and I realize this is bad timing, but in winter I do poorly on thought-intensive jobs like this. Still, just to get started on it, do you think you could send me the files you used to make your setup work? Maybe from that I can tell enough about it to make some progress, so that by next spring when I need it I might be a little more familiar with what I'm doing. I'd hate to have to do this kind of work for a living, it'd make me old before my time.

JB

[MG four six eight]

No prob Jim, go ahead and PM me your e-mail address and I'll attach the modified ini file for the I/O Logger board.
I was trying to attach it to this post, however it wouldn't allow the file. Should work through e-mail ok though.

The way that I have it set up now, it even works as a stand alone EGT/MAP/RPM/VSS data-logger. It doesn't require a Mega-squirt ECU to function, just Tuner Studio down loaded into your computer.

Bill

[MG four six eight]

Attached is a snap shot of Mega-log viewer. The top graph is RPM, MAP sensor, and Vehicle speed. Below are the 8 EGT readings. In this case, it was a free-rev in the shop, I hope to get some data-logs of the I/O Logger while driving as well. If it would ever stop raining, so I could get some traction:-)
The EGTs are closer together at higher RPM/engine loads, with them seperating under decell conditions. When I switch to MSIII I should be able to even the temps a little more under low load conditions, by utilizing the injector trim tables.

Bill

[BlownMGB-V8]

That's pretty cool. I sent Lance some of the info I dug up on the Lexus transmission I'm using and he's working on making the MegaShift (based on the General Purpose Input Output board) work with it, which would be great as it interfaces with the MS-II using CAN bus. That means a more complex GUI of course, so I've got my work cut out for me. I guess if I wanted to I could add a second GPIO for egt inputs like you have but it's enough of a challenge already. As it is I'm going to have to go to a digital speedo.

JB

[MG four six eight]

Jim
I think once you go to a digital speedometer you'll like it. The VDO unit I have will read the VSS sensor signal straight from the sensor and is calibrated with a push of a button. It's the first acurate speedo I've ever had in a MG!

Attached is a couple more data-log snap-shots during a road test. The top graph is again MAP/boost, RPM and VSS, with the bottom three being EGT readings.
The EGT spread gets nice and tight together as engine load increases (boost conditions) then spreads somewhat when I let off the throttle. Also during light load/throttle cruise conditions. When I switch over to MSIII I will concentrate some of my tuning efforts in these areas to see if I can get the EGTs closer together. Although they are closer together then I thought they would be.
The MAP peaks are during a WOT aceleration run at 162 kpa or 9 psi of boost. It was interesting for me to see how quickly the supercharger builds boost at a fairly low rpm :-)
The bottom snap-shot is the same run only instead of VSS it shows the acelerometer reading (the squiggily red line). I will use this data to compare full throttle performance between the two different ECUs.

Bill