MGB Roadmaster

[mowog1]

I was tempted to put coil springs backin the front....have the spring pans been altered to the point where coils will no longer work without replacement of same?

[BlownMGB-V8]

No problem Rick, they will go right in. I would suggest using the stiffest and tallest springs you can find though if you do. The lines can be just slid back up out of the way if you want. We tried all the springs I had and it still sat a smidgen low but that was GT springs and competition springs which were shorter. Maybe you can find some spring spacers somewhere. A half inch might do it.

Bill I think we all understand. But do we get to hear about the chump car?

Jim

[Todd McCreary]

Maybe you can find some spring spacers somewhere. A half inch might do it.


Put in adjustable spring buckets and you can have any ride height you want with any set of springs you want to use.

There are also adjustable shims and fixed thickness rubber spacers.  Here's a quick google result:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Race-Spring-Mount-Perch-Spacer.html

[Bill Young]

Of course I'll tell you guys about my Chump Car experience. Had a blast driving a modified British sports car, a Midget with a Ford Focus twin cam four and a T5. Once we got a front sway bar on the car on Sunday morning then it started to perform really well, before it wallowed so much that all the tires were rubbing on the fenders in the turns. On Sunday it was basically flat and neutral handling, if not a little tail happy. All seven of the drivers spun it at least once during the two days, I managed two spins, one on Saturday and one on Sunday, but no damage done except to my ego. If any of you ever dreamed of driving a race car this is definiitely the way to go. There's a guy in Lawrence Kansas (Clancy Schmidt, who did much of the construction on Phil Leonards RV8) that has built several cars and then rents out seats in them for $700 a race. You have to have your own safety gear, suit, helmet, and such, but he takes care of everything else, tires, entry fee, you name it. You can get 6 or 7 guys together and put a car on the track pretty cheaply, especially if someone in the group can weld in a roll cage.
One more item checked off my bucket list and something I will probably do again next season it was so much fun.
Some of you might remember one of my co drivers, Robert Maupins from Indy a few years back. Also Bill Davidson, Phil Leonard, and Don Bonar showed up on Saturday to cheer us on. Photo of the car in the pits and of some of the team, entered as Team Fright. ( Ford Sprite)

[flitner]

I'm digging them A/R Vector wheels on the Spridget! Looks like fun!

[BlownMGB-V8]

Bill,  have you had a chance to check with Terry to see if he wants the car for the winter to put in his showroom? We really ought to do that considering he did so much to help move things along. So far as I know nobody has been in touch with him. I don't know if he even knows the car is finished.

Jim

[Bill Young]

No, haven't contacted Terry about that. I really need to know the current state of the car in more detail before we consider a move, will we have to trailer it? That makes a huge difference. Still not clear on the status of the front suspension or ignition systems and why the car had to be trailered to Rick's place.

[mowog1]

Bill, you have a PM.

[Bill Young]

Hello all. No word yet on anyone willing to host the Roadmaster for the winter. We received a bill for the insurance for next year and it is being paid, but that leaves us with about $50 in the account, so we need to come up with some way to raise some funds to repair the car and get it ready for next year. Anyone have any ideas? Of course contributions are always welcome, just send them to Bill Davidson.
My shop will be ready in a couple of weeks, but with my move I won't be able to pick the car up from Rick until at least January or so. I have to get my current house cleaned up and ready to sell and on the market this fall. I am more than willing to house the car over the winter and fix the current problems if I can, just can't go and pick it up right now.
I don't have a distribution list set up for the group on my e-mail site so I would appreciate it if someone wants to copy this and put it out on e-mail.
Bill Young

[madmax]

Hey Bill/All:

We seem to have the following issues:

1) Car needs to be rescued from Rick's, and as soon as possible.

2) Car needs funds to be repaired (more on this below)

3) Car needs PERMANENT source of funds to be maintained.

4) Car isn't reliable enough to go from user to user.


1) I don't have any current ideas.   Like Bill, I don't foresee any space availability or time until next year, and even that is subject to change.  (Have My Own cars I've been ignoring/avoiding.)    Also, there would likely be 5-7 people closer to Rick on the cars' way to (here).     We need to find those resources and use them, perhaps?  

1-a) ONE IDEA:  Rick:  what is the monthly cost of a local storage place where the car could be hidden?   Given currrent towing costs, etc., for a few months at least this *might* be a cheaper option...

2)  Undoing the complicated ignition set up and reverting to the Pertronix should hopefully be easy, and zero cost.   Rubber Bumper roadster coil springs would be a good choice IF we wanted to remove the air bag system.   (Frankly, I thought that was a trick item, but it has been very problematic....)   I think it's quite possible coil springs would just be a temporary swap for the car to move around and get back on the road, and then the air system could be improved to Beta 2.4 and reinstalled.   :-)   I could probably come up with a used set of springs in a pinch, or someone else might just have some lying around in their parts?

3)  We've done amazingly well on the donations front, but the car needs to have a permanent and steady/reliable amount of income so that repairs can be met and other items can be budgeted.  (Been there, done this with the B-Stingers Race Team).    

Some spitballing ideas:
3a) Rent a Roadmaster.   He who drives it-- pays.  And NOT for repairs, but for usage-- You have it for a week, say, give $100 to the kitty.    (Time earned/parts donated would/should be considered to bank against this, but I think you get what I'm getting at.)   This way, the car is always getting SOMETHING so as to keep itself afloat.   That amount of money is NOT a lot, considering its novelty.   (I'm sure PJ would have *loved* to have only had to pay $100 for His time with Roadmaster!  Frickin bargain..  :-/  )      PROS:  always generating income.  CONS:  without that immediate financial responsibility, will some people be more 'abusive" to the car?  ("Like YOU were always nice to YOUR rental cars?"   ;-)  )  

3b) Regular fundraisers.   The T-shirts and other regalia come to mind here.   This is income, but very slow and not always a great margin.  (Given the time it takes to conduct ONE t-shirt sale, in terms of contact, payment, shipment/delivery, etc., the people involved might as well just forget the shirt and donate their time or equivalent earnings to the project!)    

3b-2) A money earning event!   The Raceteam do two of these a year (one is rustproofing in the late fall/the other is Detailing in the Spring).   The 8 of us on the team slave away two to 3 days a year, but this generates about $3K per annum to be our racing budget.    This saved our ass-- our early years were of the "donation" variety, but you just couldn't count on that and frankly-- it was only ~ $500/ year.   MAKING OUR OWN MONEY MADE US INDEPENDENT.  

The Roadmaster will always be a "dependent", however, so perhaps just a wealthy sponsor/benefactor will suffice?     I had some ideas in the past of "special event" regalia (like those photographers on The Dragon, etc.).  'I Drove It!" T-shirts (that would sell for more money, but be unique, blah blah...)   But still, these ideas rely on novelty and people spending spare cash on "trinkets".   They are NOT solid $$$ earners for a long term....


SO.....

3c) "Roadmaster Regulars".   A set group of people who would drive the car.  (This is like the raceteam idea.)   You would pay a form of dues to be apart of the Regulars and this specific set of people become the maintainers and users of the vehicle.    This takes the car OUT of the public forum, but gives it a better chance of surviving.  (A group of 10 people would pay, say, $300 each per year?   And they would schedule maintenance and work sessions for the car, where it would go, etc.)    Perhaps they each take it for just one month a year, with a two month downtime at someone's shop where the maintenance and repairs are carried out?   Perhaps, also, it does NOT have to be the same 10 people each year (spots could be swapped for someone new, etc.)  Likely, however, you WOULD have to have a 'core' group that become synonymous with the car and would maintain stability and regular maintenance on the car.  


Lastly,

4)  In a "car by committee" situation, this is tough.   It's fantastic when each person involved puts their little "mark" on the car, but these often become conflicting.  (Perfect example:  the ignition.  Very simple Pertronix/coil/distributor when it was here-- now has control box, rev limiter... and problems.  :-()    

4-a) The car needs to have a "build sheet".   I would maybe make this Job One this off-season, even before bothering to repair it.   Otherwise, each user is lost...   (The "Regulars" limits the users and thus this problem, but the car was not intended to be "selectively used".  So, IF it's going to have lots of drivers-- well, Dumb It Down and Keep It Simple, Stupid.   I know these sound like catch-phrases, but they are true-- we have "guest drivers" in the racecar and the LESS things they have to worry about, the better!)    Car has to be INTUITIVE to use, and then be backed up by straightforward documentation when it isn't!

4-b) The car needs to be Shaken Down more thoroughly.    I blame myself AND Jim for this one.   I let it go before I was happy with it (time constraint on it's residence, basically) and then this got everyone excited about next year and the car was pushed along and released with barely more than a FEW HUNDRED (non-dynoed!) test miles on it.  (Steve DeGroat's miles, pretty much).   This is just asking for trouble and we got it-- car is basically marooned at Rick's because he has no use for it going into Winter time and he wasn't the one that broke it.    


The broken starters, air suspension problems, etc., are all ENGINEERING issues because they were repeated.   (Carrol Smith:  "A properly engineered part... does not break!")     And many of our Drivers/Users are NOT Fabricators, Engineers, or mechanics.   So it is poor procedure on OUR part-- those of Us who know better-- to have released the car to General Usage.   (This is NOT a dig at any person, so please don't be offended.   Anyone can feel out of place with a "strange car", and not feel comfortable fixing/working on it, novices Or master mechanics....  And not having any "user's manual" totally compounds the issue.)  

Okay, enough cheap advice.   :-/

Cheers to all, otherwise

Max

[Todd McCreary]

Also, a current mailing address for contributions would be fantastic.  Right now it's a pain in the butt trying to find out where anything is supposed to be sent.  Jim has his address in his profile but he's technically supposed to be out of the loop on that now.

I would suggest Jim editing the address of the current treasurer / contribution point ( this being public is pretty much a requirement, sorry if the treasurer has privacy concerns ) into the first post in the thread.  Given that we're almost to 100 pages in this thread, it should also be in one of the top posts on each page.


Donations to the Roadmaster Project can be made to:

Bill Davidson, Treasurer
7208 W 54th Terrace
Overland Park, KS 66202

913 677-0884
Bill74mgb@yahoo.com

Checks should be made out to:

British American Deviant Automotive Sportscar Society
or
BADASS

[BlownMGB-V8]

Do you know how to do that Todd? Seems it may be a little over my pay grade,  er, I mean, I'm sorta technologically challenged in that area and probably don't have the necessary permissions even if I knew what I was doing.

Bill Young should be the one to address this. The contact information for Bill Davidson our treasurer does not seem to be easy to find. We would get more contributions I think if that information was prominent but there seems to be a disconnect.

Max made a lot of good points. Rather than try to justify any of my past actions as Boss I want to thank everyone for putting up with me. It couldn't have been easy sometimes. What we have achieved is an epic story and I would like to see us go forward with it obviously. Everyone has a different leadership style, we just need a few small adjustments.

It may seem at times like I've created a void but I couldn't help it. It's just the way I roll. I did all I could to make this thing happen and anyone would have to admit that I carried the load and led strongly from the front for a very long time. But there was never any reason to think it could be permenant. At some point you have to slack off on your pace, let someone else lead, and possibly even drop to the rear of the pack. There is no shame in this, it is in fact what leadership should be. So that is where I am right now, probably somewhere mid-pack. You guys are going to have to pick up the pace though, because we aren't getting the job done.

Jim

[Citron]

I could get the car in Mid November and bring it down here.  It could stay here for the winter, maybe Max could help do something with it.  It would cost me about $400 in gas to get it here.
I would have to drive to Rick's, fix the Ign and drive it back.  I think I could talk Tom Caine into going with me to drive one car or the other.
Any thoughts?

Steve

[mowog1]

We don't have that kind of cash in the account at present. We are strapped.

Additionally, we should be trying to get the car towards the West Coast.

Max also suggested a storage unit....which would be a minimum of $79/month....plus...I have no way of getting the car there.

Max made some very good observations and suggestions in his most recent post.

There is an assumption being made here that the car will go unrepaired while being stored here in Illinois....which is not true.

As schedules allow, Pete and I will make the necessary repairs/changes to the ignition and possibly replace the air bag suspension with GT coil springs.

But until that happens, it will maintain its status as a doorstop.

[Todd McCreary]

Do you know how to do that Todd? Seems it may be a little over my pay grade, er, I mean, I'm sorta technologically challenged in that area and probably don't have the necessary permissions even if I knew what I was doing.


It can be dependent on how the forum software is set up as to whether or not you still have access.  Certain forums default to locking posts/making them no longer editable after a given amount of time.

Jim, yours is the first post in the thread and I should think that current treasurer info should be in that post.  *IF* this forum is configured to *never* lock posts then you should have access to an edit button when you view the first page of the thread.

If you can't find the edit button, any further edits to that post will have to involve a moderator or sysadmin.


The same thing would apply to whomever has the post at the top of the most recent page.  In this case, that's me and I can still see the "Edit Post" option at the bottom of my message:
Options:  • Reply via PM • Report This Message • Edit Post

Get me the treasurer info and I will tag it into my post at the top of this page.

[mowog1]

Donations to the Roadmaster Project can be made to:

Bill Davidson, Treasurer
7208 W 54th Terrace
Overland Park, KS   66202

913 677-0884
Bill74mgb@yahoo.com

Checks should be made out to:

British American Deviant Automotive Sportscar Society
or
BADASS

[Citron]

I was not meaning to imply that Roadmaster  should pay for my gas nor that it would not be repaired there.  
I can come get it, if that is what the group wants done.
It probably should go west.

Steve

[rficalora]

Max made excellent points.  If Rick and Pete are going to rework the ignition and possibly the front airbags/springs, it seems to me, "#3 Car needs PREMANENT source of funds to be maintained" is the most important objective.  And, IMO, to do that we have to ask ourselves whether we can reasonably expect to self fund or whether we need 3rd party support.  Barring a very generous benefactor or two from the group, I'm personally of the opinion that we need 3rd party support.  Now, you might not agree with me, but for the sake of developing the idea, bear with me...  If we do go down that path, we have to ask what would cause "uninterested" individuals or organizations to agree to provide funds.  There has to be something in it for them.  We only have one asset interesting to individuals and that's the Road master itself.  For businesses I can think of two draws.  One would be showcasing their product(s) and the second would be associating their name with a charitable cause as most bigger companies set funds aside for that.

Now, I'm skeptical that we can sufficiently showcase products to get sponsorship that way - simply too small of a market and # of showings are simply too limited.  That leaves the car itself as the asset.

My belief, then, is that if we want 3rd party funds we have to be prepared to use that asset.  Consider something like setting a timeline for when we will auction the car and donate proceeds to a charity*.  We then solicit support/sponsorship from a couple of companies.  I know the CIO at AutoZone as an example and could see if they have funds set aside for marketing in a charitable context.  We could then use the charity plan to try and market our story to some magazines or Speed/Velocity channel TV shows (I also have a connection who would share the story with Jesse James as an example).  With publicity would come a bigger auction price.  We would then want to ensure we had a professional looking way to collect email addresses of folks at shows who express interest - with the promise that we'll notify them as the auction gets close.  That would help us ensure there is a lot of buzz during the auction itself.  A web site or page set up to let people sign up to stay informed would help too - Curtis Road master page could be used for that.

There could be several variations of this sort of idea - I'm interested in what folks think of the general idea recognizing that the details would likely evolve as we put something like this sort of program in motion.

Respectfully submitted,

Rob Ficalora
VP, BADASS (hey, you guys voted me into the job while I was out getting gas; maybe there's justice in the world after all)

*We could decide (and make clear up front) whether we would donate 100% of the proceeds and effectively dissolve at that point or maybe donate a portion (maybe 1/2 or something like that) and use the rest for BADASS 2.

[BlownMGB-V8]

The budget required for Badass-2 would be substantial. No major contributor to Badass will be able to make that kind of contribution the second time around so if we are going to entertain this idea we need to approach it as if we are fully funding a new build. If we manage to get National coverage and attention at an auction there might be some possibility at that point af some sponsorship for the second car but that should be put into place before we are locked into an auction if possible.

I never bothered to keep track of the hours on this car so I can't  make an accurate estimate of build cost. I think Terry estimated the paint and finish body work at about fourteen grand. Terry once told me he had well over a hundred grand in his GT. I have no idea what Dan has in his or anybody else for that matter.

So the portion donated to charity would need to be negotiated, perhaps as part of the sponsorship agreement with an eye towards funding Badass-2. I would guess that we would need somewhere between 50 and 75 thousand to duplicate the effort and should probably lean towards the higher number. If we could get half of that from a sponsor and get enough publicity about the auction to get the other half there while still generating enough surplus to make a sizeable charitable donation then it only remains to determine the charity añd line up the sponsor(s).

I don't see a problem with this approach. It satisfies the requirement that we provide for the beneficiaries of BADASS which is itself a charity.

Jim

[Moderator]

Donations to the Roadmaster Project can be made to:

Bill Davidson, Treasurer
7208 W 54th Terrace
Overland Park, KS 66202

(913) 677-0884
Bill74mgb (at) yahoo (dot) com

Checks should be made out to:

"British American Deviant Automotive Sportscar Society" or "BADASS"

I've just amended the very first message in the thread with this information.

[Todd McCreary]

I know the CIO at AutoZone as an example and could see if they have funds set aside for marketing in a charitable context. We could then use the charity plan to try and market our story to some magazines or Speed/Velocity channel TV shows (I also have a connection who would share the story with Jesse James as an example).


Two thoughts on marketing:
1 - The MG Road Master is powered by a Buick 455 topped with a highly distinctive oem Buick air cleaner.
2 - It's a British car.  The only remaining 'British' manufacturer is Jag / Rover.


Would there be any possibility of cross-promoting with Buick at some of these Brit car shows?  "Fast with Class" and all that?

Jag / Rover market share is so small ( and not directly relevant to the MG anyway ) that I doubt you can get much enthusiasm from one of their dealers.



Also, auction?  You'd prefer not to do a raffle?  It seems to me that most of the charity car promotion things I see are of the raffle variety.

If the Road Master were actually gotten up and running and did a full tour of car shows next summer, I wonder how many raffle tickets could be sold.

Also, a raffle offers a lower expense way for a company to donate funds.  Prospective corp donors could buy blocks of tickets and then give tickets away to customers or high performing employees.  I would suggest coupling this with a company party held in conjunction with a Brit car show at which the Road Master was making an appearance.  

Could also be fun for the Hot Rod tour next year.



This all presupposes, of course, that the Road Master will be fairly reliable ...  *facepalm*

[Citron]

Since Roadmaster has a Cobra Kit Car front suspension, don't they make various springs for it?
I would think the kit car people would have a choice of springs for the car, from track to street and including big block cars.

Steve

[lawnvett]

(I'm sure PJ would have *loved* to have only had to pay $100 for His time with Roadmaster! Frickin bargain.. :-/ )  It only cost me about a dollar or two a mile.

A local club here just cleared $15 K for a TR6 auction.  300 tickets at $50 ea all sold over a six month time period in NC.

A publicity committee might be able to get us more exposure, I'm not a writer but with some help would be willing to try to "sell" the right story to the magazines or potential corporate sponsors.  Good ideas there Mr. VP

[Citron]

From the lack of responses to my offer to pick up the car, I assume it is a bad idea and therefore with draw the offer.


Steve

[BlownMGB-V8]

Todd, I don't think it is time to be sticking a label on the car. Not just yet. We've barely had any sort of shakedown and it is rare for even the most basic conversion to avoid any teething problems. What issues we have had with the car have been curable defects that almost entirely stem from the ultra low budget nature of the build and the limited manpower to get it done. If you would like to assist in that effort I am sure that there are one or two of those small defects that you could easily cure and this would undoubtedly make the car more reliable.

Jim