MGB Roadmaster

[mowog1]

I don't think anyone has implied or expressed that Rob is financially responsible for the repair/replacement of the starter.

It didn't break because of his misuse/abuse of the Roadmaster.

I agree....we need to come up with funds for maintenence....and insurance....for the Roadmaster.

FWIW - YOMV

[madmax]

Rick:

I didn't imply at all-- I just out and out assumed!   :-)

M

[Moderator]

Off topic... but Max, you and Emily certainly were missed in Palestine. Hope to see you next year!

[madmax]

Curtis:

Yes, thx.   We felt the absence, believe Me.   We are already scouting out the trip to Nebraska, though, so hopefully this was a one-time deal!   :-)

M

[Citron]

When the starter broke when Curtis ( and I) had the car, I never even thought about buying the starter.  Roadmaster paid for it.  I guess it helped that I was Treas. at the time.  Rob should NOT have to buy the starter in my opinion

It is a problem with the car that needs to be worked out.

Steve

[rficalora]

Quick update - car is up on jack stands.  Found where the air line got cut.  Cut out the piece; just need to pick up some connectors to splice in a replacement piece -- assuming it can be spliced.  Anyone know if there's a way to put a valve in that wouldn't let air out unless the button is pushed?  With how low the front end goes when it looses air the box section under the radiator is only about 3/4" above the ground & the tires hardly turn at all before they rub pretty hard.  Seems like it'd be safer if we had a valve that'd hold the air unless it was energized -- if such a thing exists.

On the starter, the long bolt was broken off about 5/8" below the block surface.  It came out without too much difficulty but since my wife came out to the garage to see when I'd be done -- while I was on my back working on it w/the front of the car up on jack stands -- I did use the opportunity to comment on how much faster these things would be if we had a lift -- she just gave me that look only women know how to do but I'll keep watering that seed .

Haven't ordered a replacement starter yet.  Trying to reach a guy named Jamie on the V8Buick board - seems like everyone raves about the one he sells -- several people commenting it has enough eough torque to resolve hot start backfires & price seems about the same as CarQuest for the one we had.

Also read up on the MSD timing control box.  It has 3 adjustments -- initial advance, RPM, & slope.

Initial Timing: This adjusts the timing setting where the engine idles. This amount can be adjusted 20° from where the mechanical timing is set.  To adjust the initial timing, turn the control pot counterclockwise. It will retard the timing up to 20° from the mechanical timing.

RPM: This is the rpm point in which the advance will begin. To set this, accelerate the engine to the rpm point that you want the
advance to start. Turn the RPM control pot counterclockwise until the timing begins to change.

Slope: This is the point where the timing advances to the mechanical timing again. To set this, rev the engine up to the rpm point that the timing should be completely in at. Turn the Slope control pot counterclockwise until the timing begins to change.

Based on that, it's not intuitive how we can use it to retard timing during cranking.  But, in a document I found on Jegs web site, there's this extra note that I didn't see in the instructions for the box that were in the car... it simply reads "When 12 volts is present on the Violet wire, the timing will be retarded 20° during cranking."  Not sure if our box has that wire or not, but will check.  With 5* advance currently, that would mean 15* after TDC during cranking.

[Dan B]

Hey that title, "Prez Extraordinaire Bill"  sounds pretty good for the old lumberjack!

[Bill Young]

Prez Extraordinair Billl does agree, we have enough money in the treasury according to our new Chancellor of the Exchequer Bill Davidson for a starter. This is exactly the type of routing maintenance item that the group woiuld pay for. Now if someone dropts the clutch and blows the transmission that's another matter, abuse the car and you should pay. But normal wear and tear items such as this will be provided. We have $575 in the account at this time so Rob let Bill Davidson or myself know what the bill is and we'll reimburse you or even send you a check up front if you want.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Jamie McClinton, Neuport Start-N-Charge. Look on the vendor list on the back window, his number should be there. He will very likely give us some sort of a discount. You can mention my name if you like.

It would be good form to tell him that his name is on the car.

Jim

[Bill Young]

To all our Roadmaster group. We overlooked passing the hat at this year's meet in Texas, but we need to ask for some more donations. We need to build up some reserve funds for repairs such as the starter and also to pay our insurance bill when it comes due. I'd also hope that we could help PJ defray his costs a bit when he picks up the car in Texas and drives it back to Ohio next month. I'm going to kick in $100 for my part, but we'll take anything you folks can give of course. We currently have around $575 in the account, would like to see that doubled by mid July if possible.
This will be an on going project even after the initial build, we'll need maintenance and we have already identified a few problems we'd like to work on over the winter. Hope we can get the oil usage under control as well as some tuning issues to aid in upping the gas mileage. You can contact our esteemed treasurer Bill Davidson on where to send your money.
On the plus side, Rick has secured the promise of a new set of tires when we need those from his contacts in Illinois so that major expense is taken care of.

[Dan B]

I sold three of the T-shirts to WV British Car Club members at our meeting on Saturday.  I passed the remaining shirts and the $60 I collected back to Jim so he could send it on to Bill. There are a few shirts left, mostly Large and I think one Medium.

[mowog1]

Perhaps Mike Maloney can sell them when the car is in Grand Rapids, MI for the UML Summer Party?

[rficalora]

Talked with Jamie - $180 including shipping (incl. minor discount of $5) for the starter.  Starter we had on it, which cross references to a Buick & Chevy 350 is $181 (incl. tax) from CarQuest so Jamie's is competitive & seems to be what the V8Buick guys like.  I checked a few on-line sources to see if I could get just a replacement nose cone - no luck there.  Plenty of normal wear parts, but none of the castings.  So, unless someone has a better idea, I'm going to order from Jamie later today.  Hopefully the MSD box will let me set it up to retartd the timing during start up & we'll have this hot start & related starter problem behind us.  Oh, I'm also going to fabricate a brace for the back end of the starter too.

[rficalora]

How's this for timing... I just got a reply to one of my requests from a couple of days ago...  $24.40ea for replacement nose cones for the CarQuest 6407S.  For records, the nose cone is Delco 51-1103 and now that I know the PN it appears to be readily available from multiple sources for about the same price.

Sounds like that's the way to go -- maybe even get two of them so we'll have a spare.  Thoughts?

[Bill Young]

Sounds outstanding Rob. The new nose cone and a brace should solve our problems in that area. Send Bill D the final bill and he'll send you a check.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Superficially, that sounds reasonable. But are we stepping it by trying to do the right thing? Steve D or Curtis bought the last starter. Same circumstances but a big time crunch. Does that mean we need to reimburse Steve?

I'm just asking because the question is bound to come up. I most certainly don't want to hurt any feelings in the process.

Jim

[rficalora]

Jim - Steve posted a few days ago (pg92) that the starter he/Curtis got was paid for out of Roadmaster funds so I think we're ok there.  Steve, let us know if I misinterpreted your note.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I was searching the Buick board for info about our oil consumption. Seems it is fairly common to install a windage tray in the lifter valley to keep hot oil off the intake, as there is a lot of oil being slung around in that area. Since the pcv valve is installed in a grommet in the floor of the intake it is directly exposed to that oil spray with no oil separator of any type. I think this is the problem. As engine load increases oil is sucked into the intake along with the blowby. An external separator that drains back into the intake should cure the problem. If not, perhaps we should install a windage tray under the intake.

Jim

[madmax]

Jim/Rob:

How "wet" is the angled tube from the PCV to the carb?  For that level of oil consumption through the PCV valve, it would need to be dripping.  

Have we done a compression test?

Or a leakdown test?

Or a vacuum test, now that it has been dyno tuned/timed?


I'm not saying the separator or the windage tray are bad ideas.  They sound like good ideas--- not too expensive and certainly can't hurt!

But we need more tests and information of other 'basic" engine conditions, and I'm frankly skeptical that we can consume THAT amount of oil by just sucking up the oily mist.   Not to mention you'd think we'd have a constant blue tinge IF that was how the oil was "disappearing".  

There were rumours of drips on the ground.   Where/what are these from?   And are they more active when under pressure, do they only drip when the car is running, or do they drip if it sits as well..?

$.02

M

[rficalora]

I'll look @ the PCV.  Seems like a lot of oil for that but, there's also a fair amount of oil coming from the rear seal -- plenty splattered under the car & when the starter came off it left a nice little puddle under the car.  I'm thinking it's probably a combination of the two.  Does anyone know if it has a rope seal?  If so, there is some stuff that can be added to the oil that is supposed to swell rope seals to help them seal better.

RE: compression check - that'll have to wait till I have the starter fixed.

Update - PCV does have a fair amount of oil on/in it.  Hard to say how much it's sucking up -- what do you think of the idea of making a catch can for between the PCV & where it feeds back in -- that way we can see how much oil it accounts for.  Since it'd just be temporary, maybe a jar or can with some soldered fittings to maintain the vacuum?

[mowog1]

re: "There were rumours of drips on the ground. Where/what are these from? And are they more active when under pressure, do they only drip when the car is running, or do they drip if it sits as well..? "

No rumour....but it was really nothing major....about four or five spots the size of a quarter on my driveway...after the car was left sitting parked overnight.

Found under right bank of engine.

[rficalora]

there was more than that on my dad's driveway - probably the same number of spots but a few were more like 4" diameter.  Car was parked there twice - once over night & once for a few hours after driving back from Arlington (about 45 mins)

[BlownMGB-V8]

At a quart to 150 miles anyone following would surely have signs of oil on their car, and so far none. But we do know it leaks. We just don't know how much. It does have a neoprene rear (and front) seal. Application is 460 Ford. But it is possible to have leakage around the rear main cap, between it and the block. Still, it doesn't seem to be enough to account for the oil loss.

And there have been two occasions now where it has drawn in a mighty slug of oil on start up, coughing and sputtering and blowing out a huge blue cloud before it cleared. The only way I know of for that to happen is from oil that has settled in the pcv line. Anything else and it would do it all the time.

As for how much oil it can suck up the pcv line, ask Carl. I think he has the record and we'd have to double ours to even compete. Proper pcv venting cured his though and at TX he reported less than a quart on the trip down. I think it is worth a try. One of those in the photos above might work. Or just a can stuffed with scrubber pads with a nipple on the bottom to plug into the grommet, and a grommet on the top for the pcv valve. Something like a campbells soup can maybe. With a soldering gun it should be possible to whip something up in about 15 minutes.

Jim

[rficalora]

Nose cones ordered.

[Citron]

Raodmaster did pay for the starter Curtis and I installed.

Steve