MGB Roadmaster

[BlownMGB-V8]

OMG! STEVE DROVE THE CAR! ON THE STREET!

This is what we've been waiting on for, what? Five years now?! Now THAT is what I call exciting news!!

JB

[rficalora]

That's awesome!  Any pics of the car @ the cruise in?

What's the issue with the brakes?

[Citron]

No pics.
The brakes seem to have air somewhere that I have not been able to bleed out.  Will try again after the alignment.
I have been afraid to open it up because of the brake issue.  It will stop, but in a emergency it would be bad.


steve

[DiDueColpi]

I know I'm a relative newbie to the project.
But that's the coolest thing ever!!!
Everyone involved should be immensely proud and excited by it's mere existence.  
And while a myriad of people have been involved in it's birth I think a special recognition is due to Jim.
What a phenomenal accomplishment.
For a relatively small group of online buddies to produce something like this is a inspiration at the least.
Well done! to everyone involved.
I am humbled to be in your presence.
Cheers
Fred

[mowog1]

Do we have insurance on the Roadmaster now?!

[BlownMGB-V8]

Um...no,... why do you ask?

JB

[crashbash]

"I knew him before he was king"

[BlownMGB-V8]

OK, a couple of new developments. Most of you may find this boring so be forewarned, still in the interest of full disclosure I should post it. First the good news, earlier today I fired off an email that I hope will reach the attention of McKeel Hagerty of Hagerty Insurance. No guarantees, it's not easy to find his personal email address, I suppose for pretty obvious reasons but we'll see where it leads. Anyone with an inside contact feel free to lead.

The not so good news is that my timing could have been better. I wasn't really satisfied with our organization's business designation being LLC on the official records when the application form is designated NLC and my apologies to all but this summer I accidentally allowed the license to lapse while thinking about what to do about it. A week or two back I had re-filed using NLC as the extension but it was bounced, so this morning I called the sec of state and worked out a solution that allows our registered name to indicate our non-profit status. The new form went in this morning using the extension:  ...Society, N LLC, the N standing for the non-profit status. I realize this is a minor detail but the details are important.

I pretty much have to make hay when the mood hits me so I also later wrote the letter to McKeel and then sent it out. The down side is if he checks background on the organization before the new application is processed it will raise a flag. Not my brightest move I'm afraid, but there you have it and we'll have to deal with it as well as we can.

JB

[mowog1]

If Hagerty doesn't like it, there is always Grundy, etc.

Not to worry.

[Citron]

The brakes are now very good.  Hard, high pedal.  This is thanks to Unlimited Auto here in Lugoff.  No charge.  Great guys.
The fuel guage has died.  Tach still reading 8000+, Speedo not working.
The four wheel alignment turned out to be a 3 wheel job.  Right rear would not adjust in.  5/8 tow out.
I took the rod off today and removed the jam nut which gave some more adjustment.  Now it seems fine.  Tom Caine helped with that.
Just drove it another 7 miles.  No over heating, ran great.
Timing is now set at 25 degrees with the vacuum hooked to manifold.  It is much happier this way.
The rear end is not quiet, it whines on decel.   Everything is greased really well.
Will take it to the cruise in on Friday and will take pics and try to post.

Steve

[madmax]

Great updates, thx Steve!

So what DID you ultimately do on the brakes?   Sounds like the first four bleeding attempts got nowhere...

And with the timing at 25 idle (manifold) you'll only get 25 degree FULL when you punch it!   (Kinda short....)

I can't imagine you got it to stop running on the primaries, but what did you do to the carb to stop "the gushing"?  You mentioned being at 20 degrees with PORTED vacuum-- was the port NOT being pulled?   (That would be awesome).    It's too bad the engine wants so much timing-- the distributor isn't curved for it.  

And, lastly, did you get the other fan working?  I'm guessing the top connector where both wires came in....  (Or did we have a partially seizing motor-- now done-- which might explain all the blown fuses!)

Cheers!  

M

PS:  My apologies for the HUGE pix I sent to Jim.  (It was late.  I was tired.   I'm a Luddite, blah blah..)   HOWEVER... I think I (now) know the quick way to downsize, so maybe I'll post a few <here> for those watching in the wings.    :-)

[madmax]

Okay, let's see how this goes....    M

[madmax]

Hey, it worked!   (Note:  Carl in his natural habitat!)

[madmax]

Okay, the previous were:  a) interior  b) "modified" TR6 heater valve  c) the tricky dash repair  d) Lights Work!!!

Last ones:  1) Front Lights  2) Jim's modified control arms  3) Passenger door  4) (nearly) Ready to Roll!!!

[Citron]

Max,
Carb: I advanced the timing and turned down the idle speed screw and kept balancing them until I got the butterflys closed.  Then I could adjust the mixture screws.  
With the timing where it is it runs good and accelerates faster than I want to.  I fugure at cruise it will have about 40 degrees advance.
The brakes:  took the car to a friend who has a bleeder set up that pressurizes the MC.  Then just open the bleed screws one at a time and watch the air come out.  Worked great and fast.
Have not messed with the other fan.  Runs cool on one right now.
I will look at that and the tach this weekend, I hope.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Max, I finally contacted Jeff who responded that it was set up to run manifold vacuum with 16 degrees of initial advance, so Steve could probably add in some more but getting the car to run with the hose unhooked to time it seems to be something of an issue. We'll probably get there eventually, but we don't really have a benchmark for what the engine wants due to the cam and the alloy heads and intake. In the meantime it looks like we're in the zone. Too bad we didn't get it on that dyno but them's the breaks.

I got a response from a Hagerty agent today and wrote back. He forwarded my post to their sponsorship guy and to McKeel so we'll see what happens but he really felt, after talking to his underwriter, that a commercial policy might be the best way to go. I have absolutely no experience and zero contacts with commercial insurance people so somebody else needs to step up here and take the reins to at least open a dialog. I would be completely shooting blind. Once we have a contact or two I don't mind negotiating the policy, but I'm completely clueless as to who to contact.

JB

[madmax]

Jim:

Good friend of mine's wife is a muckity-muck at an Insurance company (obviously here in NC).   I could try sending out a feeler email, just to see what advice she'd give on how we should proceed and what to look for?   I'm clueless like you....


RE: distributor.   I've curved it:  It won't work with manifold.   You got 20 mechanical and 20 vacuum.     If you time at zero and do manifold, you get 20 idle and 40 cruising but only 20 WOT.     If you time at 15 you'll get 35 idle (!!), but also 35 WOT and 55 cruising.    What is working well for Steve just idling and driving around will be WAY retarded when he goes Wide Open Throttle!

You need more mechanical if you want to run manifold.   Like 30 degrees in the weights.  

IF Steve got it to stop running off the primaries then I would go 15 idle, PORTED.  This would give 15, 35, 55.    That struck me as a ported curve, for just those reasons.   Any other car would love those timing points.  

Apparently it doesn't like 15 idle.... I wonder why.   (Scientifically, you don't need more than 18 @ idle.  Big cam, lowered vacuum is probably making it a little harder to get the mix in and light it off.)

M

[madmax]

Rethinking......

Okay, COMPROMISE setting could be this:  

Time at 10 (where does Schlemmer get his 16 initial with MANIFOLD?  That's 36 degrees at idle, and the damn thing likely only wants 33 full!)

Hook up manifold port-- now we're 30.  (Vacuum unit starts pulling at 10", all in at 15"-- engine pulls 16" at idle).  

This will give 30 WOT (our minimum) and also 50 cruising-- not bad.  

So... hook up that other fan (!) and maybe it can survive 30 degrees of idle timing.  

I think that's the only way you can try to get that distributor to work with manifold vacuum.  

As you say, with ported the issue seems to be that it doesn't idle with 15 deg mechanical timing.   (And that's a different issue.)

M

[BlownMGB-V8]

"In general, a modified BBB will like between 30 and 36* total advance, and 12* plus initial." - Larry70GS "The Wizard"

If there is an actual 20* of mechanical then we should have 10-16* initial. Max, at what RPM is the mechanical all in?

It really depends on what the car likes. At idle it will probably like about 24* There is no way to get that with ported vacuum and still be in the right range at WOT, so manifold vacuum will be needed. However 20* of vacuum advance seems high on both ends but we can't really say without knowing where the engine is happiest. One advantage of using manifold vacuum is that it should automatically retard the timing when cranking, for easier starts. Jeff mentioned that big engines tend to use manifold vacuum and smaller ones ported, perhaps this is why.

What I've seen recommended is to set initial so the engine runs best, (which will also let the idle speed screws be backed down off the transfer slots and allow adjustment of the mixture screws) and then make full throttle runs and set the mechanical advance just below pinging. (Or adjust the base timing for ping and then check initial to see how far it is from what the engine likes and correct the mechanical with bushings for total and springs for rate.) If that can be done without any vacuum then ported vacuum can be used and set for around 50 total advance. (will require about 10* of mechanical) If it cannot be done (which seems to be the case here) then manifold vacuum is used to get good idle timing and a compromise is made between total timing and idle timing based on the number of degrees brought in by the vacuum can. If needed, the vacuum can may be replaced with one that is adjustable, or a sleeve installed to limit its movement. Something in the 10* range should be about right.

Currently I think Steve is on the right track but we may need more initial advance and have to limit the vacuum advance. Aside from that I find his results very encouraging.

JB

[madmax]

Jim:

With wonky tach it was hard to know when timing was all in when the crew was setting it initially.    

It is NOT a long curve-- I think it was likely all in between 2400 and 2800.   Perhaps 3000, but I did NOT have to rev it much to set the WOT point...

Yes, Steve's news IS very encouraging, if only just for getting out on the road.    We have all winter to get the timing right.

IF YOU can come up with another distributor, we can probably curve it for how we'll want (manifold).  


Personally, I still think we should figure out why it doesn't idle with 15.... must be that cam.   :-/

M

[Citron]

I am probably conservative on the timing, but the car does run well.  No ping(i think) and idles fine below 1000.
I have not tried wide open yet as I am not comfortable with this much power.  I have no place to really try to hold it open and see what happens.
Once Jim gets the car he or you or whoever can play with the timing all they want.  
I just wanted it to run well and not get hurt by too much timing.
I am not sure with the engine noise and my bad hearing that I could detect ping anyway.

steve

[madmax]

Steve:

You made two posts re: timing.  One said ported, other manifold.  

WITH the manifold being pulled, where is the idle timing? (I thought I saw 24 degrees?).  

If that's the case, pinging is NOT the issue-- the timing will be retarded for WOT.  

At the moment, if we aren't dynoing it, no worries.   But we certainly won't get all it has missing a good 10 degrees of timing!     :-)


Remains to be seen in driving conditions.   LIkely we're surviving because of the partial throttle/vac cruising.   (Which is around 44 it sounds like.)  

M

[mgb260]

I used to have a 400 Pontiac(67 Firebird) used manifold vacuum stock. 12 initial,34 total. I think the vacuum can only pulled 8". So at idle it would read 20" with hose hooked up. Maybe you need a late 60's Pontiac vacuum can. I also used  lighter springs to have all the timing in at 2500 rpm. Better gas back then though. Still had to use Premium because of 10 3/4" to 1 compression

[BlownMGB-V8]

Max, could you have your friend check on the commercial insurance? I guess we'll probably need to get that if we hope to get the car away fro Steve.

JB

[rficalora]

Jim, if you or someone can email me the LLC or other incorporation info I'll check with my carrier,  I remember asking about it a year or two ago and they indicated they do write policies for LLC's & non-profits.  I have ANPAC/Chrome.  They're not as well known as Hagerty or Grundy but they are one of the bigger ones and when I researched, they had the least restrictions of the agreed value collector policies.