TR3 with Buick V6

[ghornbostel]

I'm new to this site with a 1957 TR3.  Have had the car for 36 years and it has undergone some changes.  Drove it about 10 years with the stock 4.  When it was time to rebuild I decided that the cost was too great and swapped it out for a evenfire 231 Buick adapted to TR3 gearbox.  That went and the rear end shortly after and they were replaced with a Saganaw 4sp and GM 10 bolt rear end.  Many enjoyable miles later it is rebuild time and another big change.  I bought a Jim Inglese weber induction system and had to basically reswap the engine to keep from cutting the hood.  The last change is a BW T5 transmission before a engine blueprint job this winter.  Enjoy

Greg Hornbostel

found a couple of usable photos.  The third one you will notice that the 3 is hitched at times and it has a set of "summertime in Nebraska" screens.  It pulls a bike trailer real good.

[Moderator]

Welcome to BritishV8. That's a very interesting car you've got there! I'd really like to work with you to create a page for our <a href="http://www.britishv8.org/Photos-Triumph-Conversions.htm">Triumph Photo Gallery</a> section. Some information about gallery additions may be found <a href="http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-How-To-Contribute.htm">here</a>.

[88v8]

And it looks pretty much stock. That's an achievement in itself.
You even resisted the temptation to swap the wheels.  Excellent.

Ivor

[Dan B]

Man, there are going to be some upset TRA guys when they see that....LOL!!!

[ghornbostel]

Curtis,  This fall when I do a teardown I'll take a few more pictures.  This 3 has always been a road car and was built with that purpose in mind.  The fact that it looks absolutely stock is a little deceptive and I must admit it can be a lot of fun especially when comments are made as to its originality which it is not.  What you see is three cars bought back in the 1970's when nobody wanted a goofy TR3.  All of it was fabricated in my shop.  Sports cars just have to have a set of Weber carburators. The manifold was quite expensive but at the age of 69 I figured there probably wasn't enough time left to fabricate one, which was what I was going to do as I had never seen or heard of a weber setup for a Buick V6.  I still haven't decided on a mechanical lifter camshaft or not yet but I really like the mechanical clatter and the sound of the webers too.  The paint is crap and the body has more parking lot dents in it than my daily driver but nobody messes with it because of that.  My son (its actually his car) drove it to UNL during summer sessions and it sat alone in a huge parking lot.  No way to lock it up so I sent a wrench with him and he would pull the steering wheel.  It will probably be going to Cape Ann, Mass in the near future, which is where it belongs, and I'm looking foreward to driving it out there on some non-straight roads.
Thanks to all for the comments.
Regards
Greg Hornbostel

[rficalora]

Awesome car Greg.  Can't wait to see more pics.  You and your son should consider joining the group in Colorado this coming July.  You'd enjoy the group, your car would be a great hit, and it'd be an enjoyable trip!

Hope to meet you there.

[ghornbostel]

well its been sometime since I started to redo a old engine swap.  The cylinder block returned from the machine shop with .060 over bore and the crank reground.  It has 10:1 pistons, Crower cam (282*/287* .478"/.486" lift), reworked heads (bowls opened up and 3 angle valve job and matched ports), aluminum flywheel and center force clutch.  I redid the front engine and transmission mounts and did a lot of work on the driver side foot box to gain leg room.  Also built a steering offset box to get the turnsignals back on the steering wheel.  It also straightened out the steering alignment.  Took a few photos but only 1 ended up under 600 kb.  
Enjoy

Greg

[ghornbostel]

Moving foreward and now ready for the engine.  Won't quite make it in time for Colorado Springs but then there's always Indy.

[ghornbostel]

Well, this pretty well sums it up.  Engine has about 150 miles on it and feels very strong.  Really like the sound of the webers and solid lifters.  I installed a cruse control for long Nebraska trips (flat, straight roads).  Have to get the carpet/heat barrer back in place.  Hope to make the vintage races in Hastings, NE Labor Day weekend.  

Greg

[rficalora]

I bet that is just a blast to drive!

[ghornbostel]

New top and a redo on the steel over tubing side curtains from a few years ago.  Really had a good drive even though the webers weren't quite right.

[Winston]

That is really slick. Love it -- even more so because it's worn in all the right places. Those six trumpets sticking up look really sweet too.

[ghornbostel]

thanks Winston.  The weather has turned really cold here now and the work list is to rebuild the worm and peg (12:1 ratio) steering, lexan windows for the side curtains and clean and coat the gas tank so the webers will stop popping.  Three weeks ago I pulled them down to clear the rust from the float bowls as it had really started to pop at speed again.  It has been gradually been less between tear-downs but has never completely stopped.  How it gets by the filtration is a mystery to me.  The steering will probably be changed to rack and pinion when funds permit (SS doesn"t cover TR3 parts).  I have changed the front geometry to zero camber and 3* castor (TR4 trunions and ball joints).  I'm really not interested in race setup and its nice that the steering returns to center after a turn.  Found that the bearing races on the worm were worn, the peg on the rocker shaft worn and the rocker shaft bushing badly worn also.  Trued the bearing races up on the worm and ground the rocker shaft round and fitted a under sized bushing in the steering box.  Along with a new peg it should be quite an improvement.  I've decided to build a new offset box with needle bearings instead of bushings also.  I'm really looking foreward to the lexan windows for the side curtains as I can then drive in the winter with a reasonable amount of comfort.  I've got to get a picture of the new air cleaners that is under 600kb.  I fabed them last summer and the glue holding the foam together is working great.

Greg

[88v8]

I like the lived-in look of this car.
You can post any size pics with Photobucket - copy/paste the IMG code.

Ivor

[ghornbostel]

The weather here in Nebraska has really been a roller coster.  From day time temps in the teens to yesterdays 70*.  I hate to leave a post hanging so a update for the few that are interested.  It is amazing what a small steel pin will make in the steering of a TR3.  The car won't parallel park but going down the road is just fantastic.  Renewing the bearing races on the worm and grinding the rocker shaft round and a new bushing helped too but I did this before replacing the peg in the sector and the difference was as stated "amazing".  I really have to change my mind about rack and pinion.
The tank is coming out this week.  I think I'll be replacing the fuel lines too.  When there is no crap in the weber float bowls this engine runs at more than expectations.  Its no full on sbc or sbf but it performs very well and after many checks on fuel economy it still delivers 24 mpg.  The more I tear them apart the more I learn about them and I am really looking forward to getting rid of the rust in the float bowls.  
I've just about had it with vinyl glued to metal.  I believe I'll strip the dash and paint it body color and be finished with it.  I'll have to metal finish all the body caps around the cockpit too so this could take some time.  I've also been thinking of painted sheet metal side panels in the cockpit also.  
Tim, the speedo is still working great.  Thanks again
My TR3 disease continues and I'm still not interested in a cure
Greg

[Orange Alpine]

Love your "3".  I've found it is amazing what a repower can do to these old cars, even if your not striving for supercar performance.  I recently had a friend drive my Duratec powered Alpine.  Ever seen a 73 year old man giggle like a school girl?

If your going to paint your dash, consider a hammered finish paint.  Requires minimal prep, covers imperfections rather than highlight them.  Here is my Alpine dash, painted with Krylon silver gray.  The dash is made of some sort of plastic.



Bill

[ghornbostel]

Bill, thanks for the pic and yes I see that 73 year old man (I'm only 70) giggle like a school girl every time I drive the TR3.  At the time I put the Buick in the 3 the only engine around was the Olds quad 4 and it was so hot with the midget boys that they were hard to find and out of my pay range.  The Buick came out of a Regal that my wife bought new and passed down to our son for his high school car in the early 90s.  One of his friends talked him into driving the car and it ended up cleaning out several hundred yards of rural Nebraska borrow pit (ditch) and that was the start of that.  
Gas tank has been coated and the fuel lines are next.  Its really hard to take this car apart again because when the temp gets above 40* its time for a drive.  The dash has to come out and that job has to be done.  The hammer tone is attractive to me and the shape of the sheet metal under the vinyl will determine what gets done.  I put a Dakota cruise control in the car and I'm not sure if I like where the control has ended up at left of the steering wheel high in the arch of the dash.  Mabe french it into the dash so it matches the gage cluster and glove box cutouts. Its going to be hard making a 2000 year product look like it was made in 1957.

Greg

[Richard/SIA]

The timing is bad financially but I just bought one of the Inglese Weber manifolds for my 231 engine.

In trying out different aftermarket manifolds I learned that some may not cover the heat risers of the later heads and that the "Tall Port" 231 heads may be a poor match to the earlier manifolds.

You have a 231, do you also have the "Tall Port" heads and does the Inglese manifold match them well?

I was going to use a KB-1 until I can get the Englese sorted out but the KB ports are short on the top side.
Enough so that I am considering having the top side welded up in order to have enough material to match the ports and still have a sealing surface.

[ghornbostel]

Richard,  You have 1 of 21 manifolds or so I have been told.  Jim Inglese only said to me "very few".  The person I bought my manifold from said the 21 number.  http://www.gnttype.org/resources.html  If you go to this forum there are photo guides of all the engine parts and how to identify them.  My manifold ports match a stock gasket.  If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for your manifold.  Mine cost me $2200 and included the Inglese webers , fuel blocks and fuel lines, fuel pressure gage and linkage. I believe it spent most of its life on a shelf.

Greg

[Richard/SIA]

About $380.00 on feeBay.
Mine was the second of only two bids.
Also got nothing more than the manifold.
Of course I found it purely by accident, with nine minutes remaining, on a Saturday, with no money in the bank.
I was actually only looking for a flywheel, HONEST!
You know I never would have found one of these if I were actually looking for it.

Carbs alone are now $2K - $3K+, which is insane to me.
There are new productiuon improved versions available too, $4K!

So it's most likely this is going to get converted to F.I. even if have to make my own throttle bodies.
Hoping to avoid that so looking at some MC pieces to adapt.
Suspect that a plenem for the MAF to work properly may be fun to make.
Perhaps use some spare Rover parts I have here which would sort of keep it in the BOP/R family.

[ghornbostel]

Richard,  that's about what just the manifold would have been worth had I been able to buy just that part.  The carbs with basically 9ll jetting and 26mm chokes worked well on the bone stock 231.  I have taken the chokes out to 36mm and changed the idle jets somewhat and the engine runs real well except with a hot start (over 95*) problem.  I found out that the screens on the velo stacks aren't for catching bugs but are flame arrestors.  One backfire inside the air cleaners without the screens tells that tale.  I do believe that EFI would solve the hot start problem but the required electronics and the learning curve is a little more than I really want to go through.  Attached photo is engine compartment with air cleaners and vacuum brake assist.  I have yet to install a coolant pump to circulate water from the engine through the radiator after shutdown tied in with the coolant fan.  That will happen sometime this winter.  The best of luck with your project.

Greg

[BlownMGB-V8]

Some street bikes might have usable injected throttle bodies.

Jim

[Orange Alpine]

Greg, I have MegaSquirt in my Alpine and I must say that starting a heat soaked engine and getting it to run decently is a tough nut to crack.  I have not been able to solve the problem.   It starts okay, runs (barely) for a minute or so.  An issue is that you can only  sort things out while it is heat soaked and you are parked in a shopping center lot.

The EFI learning curve is steep, but doable, especially if you are computer literate.  I am not, so I lean heavily on my son for computer issues.  Without him, I would be dead in the water, not even able to load the firmware.   But the actual tuning process not that bad.  That is good, because he knows NOTHING about tuning.  Together, we do okay.

Bill

[ghornbostel]

Bill,  Thanks for the insight.  You are right in the fact that it only wants to do really bad things when you are in the Walmart lot and a lot of people standing around.  I'm confused.  Does the megasquirt still not help the hot start?  After I found the gas line running close to the exhaust I thought that I had solved the problem so I removed the heat soak plate between the carbs and manifold.  Everything was fine until the air temp went above 90*.  The plate went back in and now am considering non-conducting bushings for the mounting bolts.  My fuel pump is in the engine compartment also and am going to move it to the rear of the car.  Keeping the fuel cool seems to be the mission here so will probably insulate the gas lines that are subjected to heat in the engine compartment also.  The problem now is that the hot weather is over and it will be next summer to find out if any improvements were made.  I was watching some You Tube vids with vintage race cars and weber carbs and noticed that on start up they all put out a rich exhaust cloud so some of it might just be putting up with the system.  I have always been able to get the engine started , its just when it is hot it takes a little longer and of course the blue cloud.  There is the one time when the back fire started the float bowls on fire but it was really hot (105*).   I have since put the screens back on and although it has backfired, I haven't had a fire but I still flinch when it backfires.  There is a definite start-up procedure to the beast, hot or cold.

Greg

[Trick6]

Very cool indeed Greg.