Well, a little frame notching improved the engine fit.
Got it back another inch, the front of the damper on the crank is now dead even with the front of the forward cross member.
Cannot go any lower without having to do surgery on the suspension towers.
Keep in mind that this engine is virtually identical to the BOPR V8 except for being two cylinders shorter.
I may have to notch the frame some more to clear a starter, guess it's time to buy a mini-starter to confirm.
Got the engine dead level in the frame, thinking I want to lower the trans end just a bit more which will also lower the intake a fraction but also requires more notches.
Looks like just a little firewall trim.

Transmission it a little higher than I would like, wish it were a bit smaller.
Time to buy the mount.
Going to end up with a stubby gear lever in any case, hope it shifts easily.
Will end up with a pretty tall tunnel around the trans, might see about turning that into some chassis reinforcement.

The 225 lower pulley is 2.10" long, the 231 pulley is 3.20" long with one more sheave.
Using the 225 pulley it looks like I can get away with only moving the steering rack forward 1/2".
Just enough to be able to change a belt.
Looking for some feed-back on doing custom steering arms to help with the geometry.

Fresh pics.

I put some chalk on the mounting tabs so they show better.


Right side notch to clear the starter mount.


Left side notch.


An overall trans view.
Knowing that T56's are even larger I would really like to see how one of those has been done!

While searching the 'net one-handed due to a wasp sting I found this thread http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/1228-jangos-rear-end-kit/?hl=%20sierra%20%20diff

Seems the nearly ideal answer to Spitfire/GT6 suspension has been done, and it used the Sierra/Merkur diff.
But nothing new on it for several years.

I've attempted to contact the developer, maybe he will respond?

Well, finally some progress worth mentioning.

The old body is off of the unmolested chassis.
No rust in the frame and it appears perfectly strait.
It also provides me with a partial stock rear suspension for comparison and measurement purposes.
Once I pull a diff and leaf spring from the Spitfire I will have a complete "Stock" rear to look at.

Thinking of running some additional frame members along the outside to add some strength and maybe a hint of rigidity.

Also now know how thin the original body mounts are, I will need the engine even lower than I had realized.

I will be cutting the spare body apart, a shame some one cut the roof off as it's about as rust-free as can be found.
I need the lower rear license plate area and think I should keep the rear fenders as spares.
Scuttle and sills go up for grabs if anyone needs them.

Never heard back from "Jango" about his Merkur/GT6 conversion, I will email him again.

Found out that the KB manifold is an inch taller than the old manifold which is already port-matched to my heads.

Need to find a source for a "Mini-Starter" to fit my engine.
Summit Racing had no listing.
I did get a new clutch arm and throw-out bearing.
Need that to see how much room I need to clear it.

Nothing major to report but I have made a deal to buy a nice engine test stand on the cheap.

Tired of finding a leak AFTER the engine is in.
This stand has mount plates and headers for several engines, I hope one of them takes Buick.

Looks like I also found a mini-starter source.

Time to go make some $$$, it seems all the cheap research and dismantling is done.

Some actual progress of the "I bought another part" sort.

Got a Merkur complete manual  trans rear today.
If P&P were not selling at half price I would have left it there and bought the locally available Supra rear instead.
P&P jacked the price up by ignoring their published "Car rear end, drum to drum" price and charged me piece-meal for each component rather then the assembly.
So my $75.00 rear was nearly $200.00.
I did try to verify price in advance but they refused to quote pricing over the phone, sending me to their website instead.

Open diff, not posi as the web info postings call for.
Aluminum carrier and a little smaller than T-Bird unit.
Some web threads suggest that a GM 7.5" posi can be made to fit.
Ratio appears to be 3.65 which I believe is what the web claimed and should work well with the T5 OD.
Anxious to do some measuring  and to look at a thread on the Sideways Technology forum which gives some clues for how to fit it.

I know I will have to fabricate uprights and "A" arms, the current trailing arms plus axles, are HEAVY and 10" too wide.

I will try to get decent pics from the start once I get it cleaned up.

Okay, a little cleaned up.
Details on dimensions and weights once I get them.
Stock seems to be about 60" from one wheel mounting surface to the other.
With custom arms and shorter axles I should be able to make it the same as stock GT6.
Since a guy in England has already done these I know it "CAN" be made to fit.
I'm hoping to make mine more of a true bolt-in than he did.

Looks like a English or German Ford Scorpio or Sierra diff. Mine is 3.64

Merkur XR4TI,  Sierra in Europe, had a 2.3 Turbo in front of it originally.
I finally got it all stripped down, broke several Torx bits getting the axles off.
Had to cut the heads off a couple then grab the shank with vise-grips after the CV was out of the way.

Not much progress on the car itself of late but I have got my used engine test stand in the shop and mostly cleaned up.
Still have some gauge wiring to do and may have to make a buick V6 mounting plate.
From now on my engines get run in and adjusted BEFORE they go into the car!
I also bought some older Allen engine analyzers and smog testers I will hook up for precise adjustments.
Still a little work to do on those too but it's coming along well.
My hearing is not so great anymore so I'm having to rely more on electronics for tuning.

Nothing truly new on the car itself beyond sorting some spare parts.

But I have sold my Marcos so have fewer projects which should mean this one will move a bit faster once the weather warms up.

Bought another Allen S.E.A. oscilloscope that actually works so instrumentation for the test stand will be excellent.
Still working on a functional gas bench but I will only need that to fine tune the carbs.

Minor progress of a sort.
Mocked the rear diff up.
I clearly will have to cut away at least the center of the rear upper horizontal member.
Thinking I may be able to utilize at least the side mounting plates from the original diff mount.
Wondering just how much noise and vibration I would suffer if the diff were hard mounted?

Also took a fresh look at my engine/trans mockup.
Would like to get both of them lower and maybe a couple inches further back.
Problem is that the very narrow frame rails can only be notched so much before it all becomes two halves or very weak.
Considering adding to the outside of the frame, but then the floorpans profile becomes a likely issue.

The Buick V6 is essentially the same engine as the BOPR V8, but around 3" inches shorter.
So it should be an EASIER fit.
Front mounted oil pump keeps being a pain.
Would really like some clear pics of how BOPR's have been done into Spit/GT6's by others.
My T5 is less bulky than a T56 but still seems pretty large.

Want to avoid an additional hood scoop if possible, and I know it should be as I've seen the pics.

Richard,  this may or may not help.  When I put the weber carbs on my Buick V6/TR3, the hood wouldn't close by about 2 inches.  I dropped everything down in the chassis and then found that the filter wouldn't go on because it interfered with the frame and steering.  My solution to the problem is in the bypass and if you zoom in on that area of the engine you will see that I used a piece of cast iron and made the disk that threads onto the bypass.  I installed a gasket and located the area that I could use several cast iron pipe fittings that are brazed to the cast iron disk.  It interfers with the frame when you try to screw it on or off so it has to be installed before the engine goes into the car.  Sorry but I don't have a photo of it in the engine compartment
Regards
Greg Hornbostel

Appears very similar to the commercial unit I have.

Steering rack placement is being an issue.
Pulleys clearance too.

Have had to set this project aside for a while.
Concentrating on the Alfa Romeo Spider and El Camino for now.
Need more space and completing one of those is the best way to get it.

Wish I had your intake, would be worth a scoop in the bonnet.
But even if a manifold were availablde the carbs are now crazy priced.

It is similar but the pipe fittings are angled toward the center of the crank.  At the time I bought that manifold I was looking at a 166 ci stage 2 Buick midget engine with mag dry sump, individual port fuel injection and all the pipes and drives for a little more than what I payed for the manifold and carbs. It had 12:1 cr and a magneto and I thought that it would be a beast as its a little hard to find over 100 octane gas around here. The 231 has 10:1 cr and runs fine on 92 octane.  I talked to Jim Inglese after I bought the manifold to find out if he had records of jetting for the setup.  He said that he didn't and that there were less than 25 manifolds manufactured.  I see a set of 3c IDAs bring more than I payed for the whole setup which was manifold, carbs, fuel lines and linkage.  The sound that motor makes is different from a normal carburated Buick and boy does it perform and it gets 24 mpg to boot.  We are coming out of this cold spell and 60 degree days are forcast for next week.  Don't have to tell you where I'll be.

Greg

What happened to the manifold patterns?

Could maybe replace the 3V Webers with F.I. bodies.
I have CNC machines, could even make them if I had to.

You will have to ask Jim Inglese about the patterns and core boxes.  It is a pretty narrow market to say the least.  PMO also sells a direct port injection for the 911 based off the 3c IDA.  I have CNC equipment too and a aluminum foundry to go along with it but its a pretty high price to pay for one manifold.
Greg

I played with some of the manifolds I have, not enough area on top for three IDF's or IDA's.
Might be simpler if I had a manifold without an integral thermostat housing to start with.

Fabricated manifold might do it but are a LOT of work.
Twin DCOE's cross-ram might be a little simpler but still not IR so would it really gain over a standard Holley beyond tuneability?

Two IDF/IDA can certainly be done but not sure how well they would work with the V6 port arrangement.
Would basically be just an expensive 4V with vastly improved tuning ability.

I have a hazy memory of a three barrel holley, might just look that up for study but it's probably crazy rare and expensive too.

I love the summer weather but not what it does to income.

Changing my product lineup to get more free time.

For now I will be doing some measurements on the Trick-6 diff parts in an effort to make drawings for the rear suspension.

To update this thread.
Tired of doing nothing but WORK, so took an hour to get some measurements.

I have a complete Merkur rear end.
Also found some pics of a very nice Merkur to GT-6 conversion on another site, but no measurements.
I think I may be able to incorporate the original diff mount center section into my design.
Would save some fabrication time.

These measurement should be close but were done with a ruler and square.
I found the Merkur diff to be just under 12.0" wide one axle flange to the other.
Need to learn how to measure the pivot point for CV axles so that I will be able to model suspension.
Center-line to drivers side is 6.80" and passenger side 5.13"
Original axles are different lengths, not sure if that's really an issue as I do not want to off-set the diff mounting.
Aluminum case and fairly light.
About 10.75" from input flange to output centerline.
I do intend to use the Merk hubs as they are a simple bolt-on design and the correct PCD for my wheels.

The GT-6 track is 49.0"
Enkie wheels I have are 6" X 14" with 4.00 back space.

Had hoped to be able to get some preliminary numbers for the rear suspension from this but could not figure out how to change the track width in VSusp.

Did find GT-6+ chassis drawings in my workshop manual.

This is not expected to be a simple conversion.
I already know I have to cut away part of the original frame but it's just a body mount that has to be modified to let the diff sit far enough back.

I've seen mention of several suspension software programs on the web, I now have a PC I can load them on.
Have decided that I need to figure out the rear suspension before moving on to anything else.
The rest of the car should be comparatively simple.

Daze has a nice IRS forum:

http://irsforum.boardhost.com/viewforum.php?id=1

Had not planned to do so but put a few hours into fitting the engine and trans today.

Finally have them sitting just about as perfectly as possible.
Cannot get any lower even if I had a dry sump system, bottom of the pan is even with the bottom of the frame.
Engine is dead level with the frame, I may want to raise the front just a fraction.
Front of the crank damper is just about flush with the forward edge of the front cross-member.
If I cannot get the bonnet to fit without cutting now, it cannot be done using a Buick V6 engine without a full custom frame.
It's clear now that the "Easy" conversion would be a Capri V6 and T9 box.

Aghast at how much of the frame channel I've had to remove for this big fat T5 and the V6 starter.
Going to have to get very creative to restore the frame strength.
Looking like I will take a page from the old Shelby Mustang, putting a removable brace between the shock towers.
Find this advisable since I've had to remove some of the original gusseting to clear the oil pump.
Also cutting clearance for the front pulley in the forward cross member.

Reversing an aluminum single sheave SBC crank pulley will give me enough room to move the steering rack back 1.00" which seems to be all that should be needed.
Doing that and shortening the rack to fix the backward Ackerman and bump steer.

No room to mount the alternator in a conventional manner so current thinking is to reverse mount it.
Would like to see clearly what was done for BOP conversions.
The water pump drive may become even more bizarre, perhaps utilizing a jack-shaft from the alternator if I cannot make an electric pump fit.
Hoping to use the Rover 4.0 front cover after I get it machined to use a distributor.

Just about ready to actually put the front engine mounts in.
Will be nice to weld parts ON after so much cutting them off.

Still not certain about the front suspension.
I recall reading that some folk have adapted European Ford spindles and arms.
Since I need a 4x108 pcd anyway I will look into that as well.

Once the engine and trans are finalized I can also finalize the mounting of my rear diff.
From there rear suspension mocking up should be much more accurate.

Anyone used a CV joint driveshaft?
Would like for it to remain reasonably light.

Seems my final How in the H*** task will be the exhaust!

Think I figured out how to reinforce the frame.

Going to have some rectangular section steel bent to match the chassis shape where it's been cut away.
This will need to be as close to the inside width as possible and half the depth.
That will be welded inside the original chassis, which is even thinner than I had expected despite having no rust.
This restores the frame to a shallower box section.

Then I want to add another bent box section to the inside outside edge, about a third of the original width but flush to the top of the original rails.
That gives me a doubled up box section that will probably be stronger than the original when welded full lenght.
But it still leaves the extra inside width and depth I need.

Now to find a fabricator who can do the bends!

Hope my description makes sense, I have no idea how to attach a drawing even if I had one.

Also looked some more at the alternator mounting issue.
Even reversed getting a belt to clear the water pump is going to be interesting.
I may be back to using a cog belt and a tensioner to push it away from the water pump bolts.
Hoping I can rig an electric water pump.

Found a company that says they can do the bends so I've traced the frame profile.
Not sure you will be able to see it, but I plan to use two pieces of rectangular box section as sketched in the upper left.
Lower piece is 2.0" wide x 1.5" tall.
Upper is 1.0" wide x 1.5" tall.
Hoping those are readily available sizes.
Should be stonger than the original frame when complete.

The piece of junk diamond plate is leftover from the prior hack job.
I left it in for now as it may help a little to keep the frame from twisting with so much cut away at the top.



Here is the rough cut frame, this lets the T5 sit low and the engine as far back as reasonable.


Also took new pics of the front tower mods.
To replace lost strength I plan to add a removeable bar from the top of one tower to the other.

Near side.


Off side.

Digging into th 'Web I've found a few useful things and a LOT of conflicting opinions.
Hoping my build will help to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

After sifting through it all I've decided to shorten the steering rack.
I have a spare so if it's a mistake I can put a stocker back in.
Rather than cutting the rack and welding it back together I will just cut a piece off the passenger side and rethread the end.
Cut the tube center a matching amount and reweld over a mandrel.
Reassemble and mount the assembly at center.
May have to cut away the lower portion of the drivers turret again to clear the steering shaft.

Got my 3' tall steel sawhorses finished!
Incredibly more pleasant to work on the chassis at a reasonable height.

Got the steering rack measured verse the A arm inside pivot points.
Looks like I should take out 3".
Also looks like I will have to cut away the inside of the other Tower to clear the steering shaft after the rack is remounted.

Yanked the front suspension, had to cut one seized A arm bolt.
Once all the mods are figured out on the towers I will take them off for easier welding.

Got my mini-starter so I can see how well that clears the frame.
Now have to decide which engine I am putting in and buy a flywheel, one of the more significant expenses.
Starter seems to have two mounting positions for different diameter flywheels.
It is nice that I am able to rotate the solenoid to place it closer to the block and away from the likely header heat.

Have to decide, put the 225 back together as I know it runs strong or go with the rebuilt but unknown spec 231?
Different flywheel for each.
Whichever I go with it's getting test run on my stand before it goes into the car.

Oh - Oh, went looking for a deal on a flywheel and ended up buy one of the rare Inglese Weber intakes!
Probably not my smartest move as it just made the build a LOT more expensive or complex.
Now I either have to find a set of overpriced 3V Weber carbs or make my own F.I. bodies.

I will probably just go with the old 4V setup initially and put this together later on the other engine.
Not even sure which it is intended to fit, even fire or odd.

Now more motivated than before to see about converting Rover V8 heads to fit the V6.
I know TA Performance sell alloy heads but the price is just too high for me.