TA Rover Heads

[Airwreckc]

Good to know, Carl, thanks.  Do you recall which heads Mike is using?--I assume the 300 heads, but wasn't able to find a specific reference.  Yes, I'm thinking that while those TA heads would be awesome, if I'm going to use the standard intake and less than optimal headers, it's probably money better spent elsewhere (like on EFI that will make it more reliable).

[MGBV8]

Yes, he uses the 300 heads that came on his 1964 Buick 300.

A few years ago, he had Terry Senneker build him a set of RV8 style headers more suited for his engine.  I would love to see what it does on a dyno with those.

[Airwreckc]

Good to know, I'll keep Senneker in mind for mine. Thanks.

[minorv8]

Eric, I am running a pair of throttle body manifolds for Wildcat heads. I fabricated a plenum on top of the manifolds and have a single 75 mm throttle body. These manifolds are a bit weird since the throttle body bolt pattern does not match typical patterns. I was planning to fabricate my own and actually did but ran out of time and bought Wildcat ones. Note that these have nothing to do with the Australian manifolds. They are manufactured by ACR in UK, the same company that also sells Wildcat heads.

Now, my previous engines had several intakes. The first one 3,5 ran a factory twin SU manifold and gave a whopping 190 hp. Not bad but also disappointing. That was soon fixed with a Performer intake (#2198 ?) and a Holley 390. Numbers were now around 225 hp mark. Holley was later replaced with a Edelbrock 500. Bottom end was then replaced with a 4,6 short block and this was maybe the best swap ever. A lot more torque and 50 hp more. All this with Rover heads. I then had the bright idea of buying Merlin aftermarket heads, then sold by Real Steel, nowadays sold by RPi. Both in UK. The heads are a huge improvement over stock heads but compared to my home ported bigger valve 4,6 heads only gave 15 hp extra, around 285 hp at flywheel. Again this with Edelbrock 500 and Performer intake. So, what next ? Single plane manifold naturally ! Difficult to find so I ordered one from Australia. Several months later it arrived and it was soon fitted. A textbook swap, lost bottom end torque and gained up top.

Everything (sort of) tested so it was time to get serious or humiliated so naturally one had to advance to EFi ! I had a Rover EFi manifold package that naturally needed porting, larger trumpets etc etc. I also ditched the factory MAF and used a front mounted throttle body. After a several weeks of frustration I got the engine running and gained 10 hp. And learned a lot abot what to do and what NOT to do.

The saga continues... now there is a stroked 4.6, new heads, new cam and intake, new gearbox and new ECU. Does it make any sense ? Maybe not... Did I learn anything ? No, especially from that part that says what NOT to do ...

I will post some pics tomorrow.

[MGBV8]

Thanks for the rundown on your journey, Jukka.  Are those flywheel numbers or rwhp?

[roverman]

Good info Jukka !  If I don't run out of time....   I want a good single plane, with a telescoping plenum divider,( pulls up from floor).
  Controlled by linkage or vacume.             Onward,  Art.

[minorv8]

My numbers are all @flywheel measured on chassis dyno.

Here´s some photos. First photo shows the unported manifolds as received from UK. The ports at flanges surfaces were machined but elsewhere the was quite a lot of material to cut.



Now, here is a ported manifold that I dropped to the floor. Nice quality of casting... Luckily it was good material to weld so no issues afterwards.



Here is the early stages of the plenum. There are stacks inside the plenum to lengthen the intake port. No math involved, just what fitted and felt right :-)



There was a lot of finessing later on, getting the coolant crossover fabricated and make room for it, making room for heater lines etc etc but eventually got it all working.

[minorv8]

Here is a photo of the final product. Not the cleanest of installations but maybe I will try to redo some details.

[Airwreckc]

Jukka,

Thanks for the insight, especially the progression of numbers with different configurations.  Your EFI system looks awesome, nice work.  I'll be interested to see what you get out of stroking your engine, too--as that's what I'm planning.  Lot's of similarities between what you have done and are planning to my plans--except I'll go with a more off the shelf EFI TBI.

Eric

[BlownMGB-V8]

Last night at Happy Hour I got to look at flow numbers for the exhaust ports of Carl's 300 and Rover heads. For whatever reason apparently Max didn't flow the intakes. :-(  We also compared photos of the runners, ports and chambers of the late Rover head, 300, and TA. Of note, between the 300 and 4.0 Rover, the intake valves in the 300 are larger but the exhaust is smaller. Port area increases from the 4.0 to the 300 to the TA and iron heads would be somewhere between the last two. Exhaust flow is noticeably better in the 4.0 head by a factor at .5 lift of about 100 to 120. At least partially due to the valve size difference. There may be some port geometry contributing. It's unfortunate we didn't have the intakes to compare.

I expect the 300 head flows better on the intake side and worse on the exhaust side, and this characteristic is consistent with pretty much all OEM Buick heads around that era and going back at least to the Nailheads and perhaps beyond. This supports the theory that the 4.0 heads are nearly as good as the 300 heads but until we have actual numbers a theory is all we have.

Jim

[Airwreckc]

Jim,

I'm leaning towards the late Rover heads with porting and slightly larger valves.  I found a company in the UK that offers CNC porting on Rover heads for a reasonable price, so I've asked them for flow numbers,  Perhaps we will have some more insight soon.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Sounds good. I think that's the way I'd go provided the flow numbers are as expected.

Jim

[Greg55_99]

Are the TA heads available again?

[Airwreckc]

Greg,

I was told by TA that they are on backorder, but that they do plan on getting them in.  My guess is they are waiting until they get enough people "on the list" before they make more.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I think TRS probably still has some and depending on the exchange rate they may not be too dear. My guess would be that TA will order another casting run when TRS re-orders or possibly before if there is enough demand.

Jim

[Airwreckc]

Jim,

The TRS heads are showing as $5,900 AUD, which works out to about $4,000 USD (assuming I'm comparing apples to apples):  https://triumphroverspares.com.au/product/new-rover-v8-cylinder-heads/  The TA heads are quoted as $2,900 (USD) assembled.  Both are the unported prices, without shipping.  So, I *think* the TA heads are the better deal, at least if you're in the USA.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I think you are right Eric. No doubt there will be some who can justify the extra cost. May not be MG owners...

Jim