14 cux FI on a buick 215

[pizza914]

Hello I will start with what I have. I don't have a british car sorry to say. I have been told you all are the authority when it comes to the 215 motor. I have a 1970 Porsche 914 with the buick 215 v8 in it. It is currently carbed but I came across a deal on Fuel Injection. This is the complete system less the o2 sensors. I have read a few good articles on your site on this FI system. I believe it is off a 3.9 & is the 14cux system. Does anyone have a source on o2 sensors. I'm looking for alternatives & what you may have used. Also just in general any tips on the conversion. I appreciate any help & advice you can give. Here is a picture of me & my car at my first autoX.

[Moderator]

Whoa... 215 in a 914. That's bold! Very cool. Welcome to the BritishV8 forum.

PLEASE post photos of the engine installation!  

(As for fuel injection tips, and sources for injectors, I'll wait for more experience folks to answer...)

[pizza914]

 -- moved topic --

[NixVegaGT]

I've heard of a couple guys swapping the 215 to the 914. Is it transversely mounted? Just wondering. Your system should pretty much be plug and play provided all the sensors are working properly. Sorry I don't have a good source for new o2 sensors off the top of my head. I'll look around for something though.

I'm looking forward to more pix of your ride! Thanks for joining us.

[castlesid]

Jamie,

Always nice to see something different, and would love to see how the engine was installed so yes more pictures please.

There are som good articles on how to service troubleshoot and install Hotwire EFI on this forum so have a search and you should find your answers.

Kevin.

[roverman]

Jamie, Don't be sorry about your non-British ride. This motor  makes a very rounded/balanced combo, in a 914, for the street. If you don't mind spending around $60. for Des Hammil's book on the Rover V8, It covers the various, electronic  injection systems in depth, just don't expect to get much else ,awe inspiring. I'm assuming your probably using a "Kennedy Engineering" kit, with a 901 t-axel?  You may want to PM. me on stuff that doesn't fit here. I have (3) 914's and lots of swap, up-grade, Rover pcs. Good Luck, Art. e-mail: agertz1@irf.com

[pizza914]

Here are some pics. It is a midengine with the tranny still in back of the motor. So other than sitting in the middle of the car. It is mounted pretty normal. The downside in my 914 is I bought it allready installed. They did a pretty good job but they cut out my firewall to fit it. My plan is to shift everything back & get my firewall back in. The water pump sticks out way to far. I would like to move to a remote electric pump to save that space up front. Once that is done the pulley & alternator can move back a little. Anyone that has made any changes there with their water pump. I'd love to hear & see what you have done.

[pizza914]

It does use a Kennedy adapter plate & the stock 901 tranny. Well pretty stock anyway I did upgrade to a later sideshift setup with 911 flanges. I did a 5-lug conversion on it using 911 axles. I will be moving the tranny back 1 1/2" with Renegade Hybrids transmision adapters. Then I am getting longer axles for my CV's from swayaway. The 911 axle is shorter then the 914 by a little over an inch. So I am putting a little more stress on the cv's right now. Luckily I'm not driving it much. I've got some oil leaks I need to find the source of. I plan to drop my motor for the FI anyway so I'll be doing quite alot when I do. Thanks for the encouraging responses. -Jamie

[roverman]

Jamie, Probable cleanest set-up  for water pump would be like, "Meziere", inline(Jeg's) etc. Pumping into center core plugs, on both sides block ,has been done and gives better distribution. The rad will cool better with reduced "back pressure" behind core. Think about air exits with less resistance. I would like to see a transverse installation, say with a MR-2 , turbo t-axle, but waay too many projects for now. You have a good car for "sweat equity". Enjoy, Art.

[Moderator]

It might not be enough to help you, but <a href="http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm">here's one approach to shortening the Buick water pump about one inch.</a>
 

[NixVegaGT]

I'm using a remote electric pump. I modified the waterpump housing instead of using a plate. I just lopped off the shaft all the way back at the housing and I'm welding a plug for it. Then I'm just running a belt for the alternator. I'll post a couple pix of the modified waterpump housing.

In the meantime, here's a link to the remote waterpump. Pretty inexpensive alternative and it doesn't need to be mounted to the engine:

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=747,587_3529&action=product

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electric_Water_Pumps-list.aspx

The prices are in AU dollars.

[Edd Weninger]

The O2 sensors can be bought from Bosch or Rover (expensive) but that can be a back-up position.  

After I got mine (expensive) I learned that the same parts can found cheaper.  Sorry, didn't keep a reference, but just wanted to let you know they are out there to be found.

Cool ride.  Best of luck,

Edd Weninger

[pizza914]

Hey Art I don't suppose you have some pics of the center core plugs? I am just learning my way around my motor & wrenching in general. Is there allready plugs there? Or is this something that needs machined in? Cooling is always an issue. I redid my whole cooling system as the original did not work well at all. It cools pretty good now but anything that will help the flow is a good thing. One problem with a radiator in a 914. My inlet & oulet hoses ar close to 10ft long each. Lot of water to move & is a trick to get all the air out of the system.

When things do get warm (190-195) I get some cutout. My engine seems to be starving for fuel. This still has the mechanical fuel pump in place. Where it sits at the front of the motor is also close to the hottest spot. Seems like I am getting some vapor lock or somthing along those lines. Is there an electric pump you guys use? Where do you typically mount it? Close to the gas tank or closer to the motor. My gas tank is in the front trunk. That seems to be the most common spot for the Fuel pump in v8 conversions in the 914. With the fuel pump also keep in mind I am adding my Fuel Injection. Not sure if that will change the need of my fuel pump or not.

[NixVegaGT]

You will need to get a higher pressure electric pump for the fuel injection. Fuel Lab makes a really awesome pump that you can adjust for pressure between using carb and injection but it's very expensive. Otherwise Holley makes pretty cheap pumps relatively speaking.

The pump will be located at the fuel tank in the front of the car so that the pump sits a little lower than the bottom of the tank. You can decide where the fuel lines get run then. That may help a lot. Another thing to consider is using a "Bypass" system. That way the fuel is constantly getting circulated. That helps keep the fuel much cooler. I'm using a bypass regulator on my setup. Should vastly reduce the possibility of vapor lock.

[74ls1tr6]

Hi Jamie,

You may want to check out this site for cooling options. This fellow has developed cooling for the 914 and 911 in the rear of the car.

Nice ride! Always wanted aV8 914, had a 2.0 turbo 914 but liked the V8 better.

http://www.toy-jet.com/

[mabie1978]

Sounds interesting Jamie.  I have a '70 914 also but it has the stock engine in it.  I have seen some with the Chevy 350 and the LS1 put in, they also had to cut into the firewall in order to fit the beasts.  I don't think I have ever seen the 215 in one of those, but it sounds like it would be a bit faster.  I told my husband once had the v8 in my MG then we would think about upping the 914, but most likely we would use the subaru engine.  I will be watching for your posts.

[roverman]

Transverse anyone? There's lots of crossways OEM. t-axels out there. Let's have a consensus. It's tough to get better space utilization and handling on a non-boxer motor in a mid application. Wheres the rad. in the Toyojet 914?  roverman.

[pizza914]

Hey Michelle I hope you are a member of www.914world.com . I know there are a few 914 guys in your neck of the woods. Should be a 914 get together coming soon. There are quite a few engine conversions done on 914's. Most of the guys post their builds on there. The Suby swap is a great way to go. Great power & mileage too! Tough to beat that combo. If I was going to do an engine conversion. I would seriously consider doing a TDI diesel. Great power, Torque & 50+ mpg would be sweet.

[74ls1tr6]

Art,

To answer your question, where is the radiator in the toy-jet 914? I was questioning that myself "where", so I emailed toy-jet an asked. His reply was in front just like Jamie's setup. I guess the 911 is in the back lid. He sent me this photo below.

Jamie,

Does this look like a larger radiator in this 914 and slanted in there more than what you have?

[roverman]

My first choice would be over the engine, rad. on a pivot? Remove sheet metal from behind rear window and use aftermarket grille from 914 specialist.Blow upward thru grille. I think a SBC.,conventional mount, electric pump mounted under shallow part of oil pan, pumping into central freezeplug ports-in block might have potential.  "Toyo-Jet", please don't try to "patent" this as now it's, "public domain". Right Mr Blackwood?  Be Cool, roverman.

[pizza914]

Yes that is larger than what I have. Originally that is probably pretty close to what was in my car. Did not cool well enough for me. It was an older I think 4 core radiator. Something like 20x20. REnegade hybrids has a custom radiator setup specifically made for 914's. It is $995 for the complete setup. Probably seems a little spendy. No doubt someone more capable in fabing things themselves could do it for less. I would highly recommend the setup to anyone with a 914. It is easy to install & includes everything needed but your hoses. I guaranteee my radiator setup will cool a higher horsepower motor much better than that setup. My radiator size is 14" x 28" I think. It's a little hard to see in my picture but my radiator sits flush with the headlight buckets accross the front. I actually do have space in my front trunk for a space saver spare. With the angle of the toy-jet your front trunk is toast. Still not alot with mine but there is usable space.

[92rrrandall]

Jaime

First of all let me say that I can answer most any technical question about the 14CUX system. I can also provide you with an ECU chip that will cause your engine to run better all the time. Contact me at plastictooling@gmail.com

The EFI setup will reduce the height of the engine a little. It will also make it much easier to fab a cold air intake, which will help keep the engine temp down.

Here are some other things which you can do to prevent the engine from over heating. Use a lower temp thermostat. This engine uses the same one that is in the small block Chevy and Ford. Get the kind that allows for some coolant to circulate all the time. Use the least amount of antifreeze that you can get away with in your climate. Use Water Wetter instead.

Use a synthetic oil like Royal Purple and it will reduce the temp a little. You may be able to plumb in an oil cooler.

There companies that will coat your exhaust pipes to keep heat in.

Check the ignition timing. The best timing usually keeps the engine cooler.

Randall

[NixVegaGT]

One other thing to consider is to try to get as much of the engine's heat into the coolant as you can. I had a friend who was building a 215 for an aircraft application. Space was limited, as well as weight. Something he did was he plumbed a 1/2" copper tube into the oil pan and ran the coolant through the tube before going to the radiator. He was able to run a much smaller radiator because more of the engine's heat was transfered to the coolant from the oil.

Just something to consider.

[MGBV8]

"Here are some other things which you can do to prevent the engine from over heating. Use a lower temp thermostat."

I don't think so. A thermostat can't prevent an engine from overheating. Might need to adjust the timing, enrichen the mixture, or add more radiator/cooling.

[pizza914]

I actually am not running a thermostat at all right now. Other than the fuel cut out I am not getting that hot. My cooling is working well in my opinion.

Randal I will send you an email on the chip. Thanks