Jag IRS stuff

[BlownMGB-V8]

That's it. Thanks John. I'll get the length for the adjuster screws, just maybe not before it gets a bit warmer. And go a few more rounds with the pattern.

The MG is in the shop until the snow goes away but not on the lift, and I'm not ready to tear it down until after I've replaced the rear airbags in my truck. That will take me up to my date for gall bladder surgery and then we're getting perilously close to spring. Which means I'm in danger of falling behind. But I'm holding to the sequence. I want to test the new gears and fuel pump before switching engines.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Here is the McMasterCarr order I'll be placing today and I think it is complete except for the rotor to hub bolts which I bought from Speedway. It's about $83 in parts, could probably get all this for less elsewhere. I will have fasteners left over.


Delivers tomorrow 1-3 pm
1
Catalog page for Zinc Yellow-Chromate Plated Hex Head Screw Grade 8 Steel, 3/8"-24 Thread, 2-1/2" Long, Partially Threaded
Zinc Yellow-Chromate Plated Hex Head Screw
Grade 8 Steel, 3/8"-24 Thread, 2-1/2" Long, Partially Threaded
Part number
Quantity
Pack of 10 each
$10.62
Pack
$10.62
2
Catalog page for High-Strength Steel Distorted-Thread Flange Nut Zinc Yellow-Chromate Plated, 3/8"-24 Thread Size
High-Strength Steel Distorted-Thread Flange Nut
Zinc Yellow-Chromate Plated, 3/8"-24 Thread Size
Part number
Quantity
Pack of 25 each
$16.38
Pack
$16.38
3
Catalog page for 18-8 Stainless Steel Hex Head Screw Made Outside The U.S. 5/16"-18 Thread Size, 3-3/4" Long, Fully Threaded
18-8 Stainless Steel Hex Head Screw Made Outside The U.S.
5/16"-18 Thread Size, 3-3/4" Long, Fully Threaded
Part number
Quantity
Pack of 10 each
$7.41
Pack
$7.41
4
Catalog page for Metal Sealing Washer Copper, for 5/16" Screw Size, 0.344" ID, 0.625" OD
Metal Sealing Washer
Copper, for 5/16" Screw Size, 0.344" ID, 0.625" OD
Part number
Quantity
Pack of 10 each
$14.29
Pack
$14.29
5
Catalog page for Metal Sealing Washer Copper, for 1/4" Screw Size, 0.260" ID, 0.500" OD
Metal Sealing Washer
Copper, for 1/4" Screw Size, 0.260" ID, 0.500" OD
Part number
Quantity
Pack of 10 each
$12.38
Pack
$12.38
6
Catalog page for 18-8 Stainless Steel Hex Head Screw Made Outside The U.S. 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 4" Long, Partially Threaded
18-8 Stainless Steel Hex Head Screw Made Outside The U.S.
1/4"-20 Thread Size, 4" Long, Partially Threaded
Part number
Quantity
Pack of 10 each
$5.62
Pack
$5.62


The 1/4" copper washers are for the oil pump bolts on my 300, recommended for all BOPR engines. The 5/16" ones can be a double stack under the head of the adjuster bolt to get the right height for the cotter. They will conform to the shape of the recess in the arm and under the head.

The long 5/16" bolt will have the head cut down to match the head of the adjuster screw with a slot cut across it for adjusting and for the cotter. More likely a hairpin.

The 1/4" bolts will get the heads cut down to match the pad retainer pins, a hole drilled for a hairpin spring clip and cut to length.

And of course the 3/8" grade 8 bolts and nuts are for the caliper halves.

I compared the drawing above to the old rotors, no hope of using those unless the rotors are bolted to the back side of the hub. Since the half shaft must be removed to swap the rotor That wouldn't be an immediate issue though so I will look again and see how that option looks. Presumably it would just mean removing the thickness of the rotor tabs from the inside or back side of the disc. I think there is bolt clearance. The additional holes are no problem since these rotors do not have any access holes in them already. Seems to me that might work. I'll look into it.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I had another look at the old and new rotors yesterday and I thought I could use the old rotor as the blank to make the hub for the new one. I had one chucked up in the lathe ready to turn it down to the 6" diameter and cut a step in it and worked on that enough today to see that it just wasn't going to work out. So I cut a pair of square blanks from some 3/8" aluminum and will start on those instead. Probably holesaw a center hole and chuck it up there after I've bandsaw cut the rough OD. Should go pretty quick and easy I think. I plan to increase the OD from 6" to 6-1/4 to give a little more meat outboard of the rotor bolt holes and probably chamfer the edge for smoother airflow into the fins.

I ran the furnace and the wood stove out there today and it wasn't really getting much warmer, at least not enough to lure me back out there. I'll see what tomorrow brings and try to get some photos for you guys.

Incidentally if you ever wondered why the rear Jag rotors have that odd shaped edge on the OD it's because they have about a 5/16" diameter wire hoop shrunk on it, fitting in a radiused groove. I think the wire is possibly made of a pretty good alloy as it was a bit tough to cut. Insurance against broken rotors I suppose.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I heard back from Moser, they want $170 to set up the gears plus any parts like shims or whatever plus shipping. They are 2-1/2 hours due north of me so I'm asking if they can do a same day turn-around. I think it's a reasonable charge and they do enough volume that it should be done right. So more on that later, odds are good I'll spring for it.

Cold again, good day to stay inside.

Jim

[88v8]

Incidentally if you ever wondered why the rear Jag rotors have that odd shaped edge on the OD it's because they have about a 5/16" diameter wire hoop shrunk on it, fitting in a radiused groove. I think the wire is possibly made of a pretty good alloy as it was a bit tough to cut. Insurance against broken rotors I suppose.

I think, iirc, that it was there to prevent brake squeal.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Yesterday I got some work done on the hubs. First I scribed a line for the OD and then cut out the center using a holesaw. Then I used the bandsaw to cut on the scribed line.



Then chucking it up by the center hole I turned the OD and the step to match the drawing, then reversed the jaws and held it on the step to bore the center hole to size. Chamfered the edges and such.



I don't know exactly how these pieces go together so I'm trusting the drawing to work right. Next step is to drill the holes.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Here is a shot of the new rotor and how it is assembled to the ... assembly? I will check those dimensions using my own parts to make sure it is right but it should be.



I used the new rotor as a drill guide and also the cut down old rotor shown here with a plug I turned to get the center. The big holes I laid out with a scale and cut with a holesaw since they are just for clearance. I'm not so sure about those big holes, if they are used to access the stub axle to housing bolts some of the metal would need to be cut away from the stub axle flange and maybe the yoke on the end of the stub axle also. Might be worth the effort, I'm just not sure. Not a big deal in any case.



Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Speedway got me on the rotor bolts, other than the metal-lock nuts they are nothing special and are too long. Simple black oxide socket heads, these are prone to rust and in one of the most corrosion likely spots on the car don't strike me as a good choice. No shank either.

So I ordered some stainless flatheads and will countersink the hub for them and use anti-seize on the threads. That will be a little cleaner and also easier to disassemble if the need arises. Should have those in another day or so.

In other news I'm on the calendar for Tuesday morning at Moser, and looking forward to seeing their operation. Mike and I plan to meet for brunch in Ft Wayne. Wonder how far Phil is from there?

Jim

[kstevusa]

Jim, Moser is a impressive operation and Mike was my contact back in 2008 when I had the 8.8 ford dif narrowed.  As I entered their shop area, I saw Rockwell axles and others  being prepped for repairs. Good Luck.

[BlownMGB-V8]

I am prepping for the trip. I want to do one more test fit and reduce the backlash again and check the pattern then leave it like that when I take it up there. That way it should be fairly close. I'll let them finish it up, install the new bearings, seal and yoke and give it their blessing.

Mike, Phil and I will do brunch in Decatur while I wait.

Several factors led me to do it this way. I certainly could do it myself and get decent results but the pattern hasn't been coming out perfect and I lack the experience to know just how to shade the results to maximize gear life. They do and have a reputation for being good at it. Secondly they are within a reasonable distance away from me and will do a 1/2 day turn around. Travel time 1 way is about 2-1/2 hours. Third, the cost is reasonable at $170 plus any parts required such as shims, bearings, etc. I have all the bearings (new) and most of the shims, and I'll ask them to return my setup parts.

Also I'm not taking the cover or the stub shafts, and it's pretty easy to do a quick check of the backlash by feel as well as the pinion preload and carrier preload. Not accurate by any means but an easy go/no-go check. It seems likely that they will leave the compound on the gears, in which case I'll be able to look at that too before I put on the cover and see what they consider a proper pattern. That could be useful to me in the future.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Tomorrow is the trip to Moser. In the meantime I've begun the shop cleanup in a small way and need to complete that before the car goes on the lift. Part of that is finishing up the brake prep work. Here you can see the finished rotors ready to install with the countersunk screws. I forgot the anti-sieze but with cad plated nuts on stainless it shouldn't matter. As long as I don't forget to check the pads I should never have to change them again. Torqued to 15 ft/lbs with metal-lock nuts.



Using a spare caliper, I've been learning a few things. First I didn't need to order those fancy nuts because the caliper halves are threaded for the through bolts. The size and length of the new ones is correct.



Next, there really is no need to do anything but shorten the pad retainer bolts and drill a hole for the hairpin, the heads aren't in the way of anything and having a head will just make them easier to remove for pad changes.



Next, there's no need to get fancy with the spacers or the lines. The halves easily spread enough to make room for the spacer and a piece of 1/4 x 1" cold rolled strap with two holes in the right places and a corner knocked off one for line clearance is all that's needed. Sure you could get fancy and grind them to match the caliper halves but nobody is ever going to look at them anyway so why bother?



Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

A full five stars for Moser    Those guys are great, and they treat you right. On a credit card they asked me to pay for the job up front, but then when it was done they flat refused to consider any upcharge. I drove the MG up there and they just went nuts over the car. They have a drag racer and a Z28 sitting in their waiting room. I went from there up to brunch with Mike and Phil and came back to a second round of showing off the MG and around 3 they had the job done. My impression was that they were very particular about making sure it was exactly right, no matter how much time it took. I felt the cost was reasonable and was prepared to pay more for the extra time. Overall I'd have to give them my highest recommendation, which is that any future work of that sort that I have will go to them, even if I think I might get by with doing it myself. That's the highest complement I can give.

I've made a bit more progress on the brakes using the spare caliper. After drilling I went ahead and scribed the spacers then went to the bandsaw and trimmed the corners off and smoothed them up on the disc sander. Even though it's definitely not necessary I felt a little extra time spent making it look better wouldn't hurt a thing and why not?



As part of the shop cleanup I felt I should finish a few things so I made up the pad pins.



For the adjuster bolt for the e-brake caliper I modded the 5/16 bolts and then smushed (Technical term) the copper washers to the right shape for spacers so the hairpins will engage the head slot.



Cleaning up the shop has become a priority though, it's starting to resemble brother Andy's barn and we can't have that. Anyway all the parts are now made for the brake upgrade. Time to tidy up a bit.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Spent a good bit of the day in the shop today cleaning up and another 2 days or so like today and I'll not be ashamed to have friends over. I think it is the first time I've swept the floor since I put the Bay car in the cargo bay of the bus so as you can imagine, it needed it. But I've been on the hop. It's been a year of momentous changes and I've been inclined to get all the different jobs done as quickly as possible and that tends to generate a lot of chaff. So far I've found a couple pairs of glasses and a mini flashlight I've been missing. So that's a good result.

I'll probably be back downstairs again tomorrow but hopefully I'll get a chance or two to try starting the forklift again. I kinda feel like it's close, so maybe tomorrow and then I can get the new hogshead out of the trunk of the MG and get the car on the lift.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

We dropped the rear suspension and the gas tank out of the car today, I had help from Matthew and Mike Pagano, a local guy with a 302 MGB roadster. I had prepped the car and they steadied it while I pulled a couple bolts and we lowered it down to a cart. It's really quite easy to remove. The driveshaft, a sensor plug and 6 bolts then after lowering it a foot, the brake line and ebrake cable.

Now the work commences since I have to disassemble the unit almost completely to swap the hog's head. The vented rotors will go on at the same time and I will give consideration to modding the pivot rods. But, one thing at a time. Since everything is ready that part shouldn't take me more than a week or so to get done. Maybe about the same for getting the new tank installed, and it will soon be time to do the engine replacement. I may want to organize a party for that part, should be reasonably pleasant weather by then.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Nothing worthy of photos yet but I got the disassembly work done, drilled holes to center the tank and welded up the old holes. Ordered new e-brake pads. (Now I know why my e-brake wasn't so hot.) Found one small stress crack in the top of the upper mount, but nothing bothersome. Perhaps it wasn't quite as over-built as I had thought though. The four top attachment bolts were very tight and solid so that was good. One of the limiter strap hangers on the body needed reinforcement, also not a big deal. Everything else looks just fine. The pivot rods were easy enough to spin out to the front that I don't see any need to change the design other than to use a thinner tie-bar in the back made of stainless instead of aluminum. I'm not sure why Max and Co had trouble with the one on the Roadmaster but maybe the clearances were tighter on that one.

Next is to put the new tank in place, measure and mark the trunk floor cutout for fuel pump access. I hope to get that done today. Then I'll have something worth taking pictures of. The trunk floor will remain flat with no new bulges and the fittings are on the side of the tank as usual.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Got photos. The gas tank is in but I still need to hook up various stuff. The fuel punp is easily accessible from above.



Nice fit on the trunk floor access panel which also has the spare tire mount.



It does hang down a little in the rear but that's where you get the extra capacity from. Dead give away for who has the big tank.



Return line should be an easy fit, supply line will need to be shortened a little. My sender is the early unit without the pick-up. Two terminals for power and ground.



Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Began reassembly of the rear suspension yesterday which basically consists of wiping the grime off and putting back together. The supposed wiper seals for the heim joints did essentially nothing and then fell apart so now they are just small spacer washers and no loss. The heims are holding up well. I've decided to assemble it first with the existing rear tie-bar and see how it fits with the new gas tank. If it's a problem I can make something thinner but I think it may fit.

My goal for today is to complete the assembly so it's ready to lift into place.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I got the rotors mounted and the drive unit assembled.



It went pretty smoothly once I remembered where all the parts went. The new vented rotors fit well and bolted up nice. As per the instructions on the Jag lovers site I did have to trim the lower control arms to clear the rotors. This was done with an angle grinder and zip wheel and took a bit of time but not excessive. I basically removed 1/4" from the corner so it would clear the added width while I had the arms hanging down and the entire unit suspended from the engine hoist.



I didn't bother too much with the clean-up and paint, the bottom of the car had been undercoated before I owned it and it's pointless to try to remove that so the bottom of the car will not likely be clean in my lifetime. Not many besides myself will ever look at that anyway.



You may notice in the top shot that there is a swaybar attached to the diagonal arms and this is so that I could set the handling to neutral. You'll probably notice that the attachment points are adjustable, allowing for fine tuning and I found that to work very well indeed. The local 2 lane traffic circle has been most helpful.

Jim

[MGBV8]

I'm not sure why Max and Co had trouble with the one on the Roadmaster but maybe the clearances were tighter on that one.

I think we had difficulty because something was tweaked.

[BlownMGB-V8]

The rear is finished up other than the fuel filler and the driveshaft, which will go in after the engine is replaced



I suspended the assembly from the limit strap brackets and used the lift to get the transmission jack under it, strapped it down and then raised it into position.



Six bolts and it was done. Turns out I did have to dimple the tank slightly in two spots but it's not even noticeable unless you know what to look for.

Mike P came over and helped me get started with the engine R&R. Two bolts and the bumper slides out, two bolts and the hood assembly comes off, and so on. It's built to be easily disassembled and reassembled. The hardest part was getting the radiator out and I think I might have gone just a smidgin too big on that so I'm going to see if Summit has something slightly smaller. Maybe the one we used in the Roadmaster. It was a better fit but I used this one because it has a transmission cooler and at the time I was installing that Aisin 8 speed. So far as I know there is still no good standalone controller for that. Anyway I do like the Tremec 5 speed so for now that stays. Provided I find a radiator that fits better I can stick this one up on the pallet rack with the transmission kit. So here are a couple of disassembly photos.



All the parts that need to go back on are here. I think we made pretty good progress for a couple hours work. Also I measured from the scoop mounting surface to the rocker cover on both this and the new engine and even with the blower the scoop will be about 1/4" lower with the new engine. Goal achieved. Even with a riser to clear the fuel rails it'll be below my sight lines, and I plan to eventually make a new scoop for it to nestle down between the rails.



I took Mike for a drive in the '23 Giulia Estrema and we were both pretty favorably impressed with the car. I think I will keep this one. It is actually the first time I've gone out and bought the car of my choice other than when I picked up my second MGB which is the one above. It's really not that much bigger than the MGB though it is nearly a thousand pounds heavier. We took it around the skid pad (2 lane traffic circle) and I got it pretty sideways but it felt quite well balanced and controllable. I was hoping for a little higher terminal velocity but the weather was cold and it's running summer tires so I can't complain. Warmed up it might do remarkably better. The ride was very controlled and comfortable and surprisingly fast. I don't really see the adaptive suspension as being worth $10K as an option which probably accounts for the dramatic depreciation. But it seems a significant number of buyers didn't mine as they sold literally dozens of them.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

It's probably time to start a new thread since the rear end is finished, although I do have a couple more details to do, provided I remember what they are. Weld the edge of a washer to one side of one hanger strap mount and something else I thought of but promptly forgot. Hmmm.

After pulling the 300 I separated the engine and tranny and pulled the clutch and pressure plate, no surprises there. I washed down the engine compartment with the Hudson garden sprayer and gasoline. Not an especially safe practice but it's a very good solvent and a cheap one. If it just wasn't so flammable but that's what makes it a good solvent, that and the detergents they put in it. I soaked up the drippage in oil dry, scooped it up and spread it on the gravel outside in the sun. Probably not an ideal way to clean the shop floor but it worked. Anyway now I have a clean engine bay to work in.



Here's a shot of the 300, don't be misled by the stickers on the valve covers. This is a known good engine with less than 60k miles on it and great oil pressure. 35 at idle, 65 at cruise, using 0W20 Mobil 1 oil. It will be for sale, the only decision being whether I'll sell it as is or make further improvements. I have a set of fresh aluminum 300 heads for it, and if I tear it down that far I might put a roller cam in it. Obviously if I do those things the price will go up accordingly. I have both the 2bbl and the 4bbl intake with injector ports for it, but the fuel rails are going back on the 340. I might swap the valve covers too in which case they will be cleaner. My personal assurance, aside from tidying up some oil leakage issues which you'd have to do anyway this is the best 300 candidate you are likely to find. I will be adding the copper sealing washers to the oil pump cover bolts, and that may be all it needs.



I'm also going to post a shot of the engine that is going in the car. I measured from the scoop flange to the valve cover on both engines, the 300 at that point still had the swan's neck riser bolted on the intake so it could use the Enderlie style bug catcher which includes the throttle body and the air filter, without the blower. The new engine at this flange is actually about 1/4" lower than the 300 so a short riser to clear the fuel rails will not put the scoop up high enough to be in my sight lines. Win/win.



This new engine is a 300 based stroker of 346 cubic inch displacement at a .030" overbore. It uses a 350 Buick crank, Carillo 6.2" rods, 10.5 Wiseco pistons, TAPerformance Rover heads, 1.9/1.6" Ti valves, beehive springs, LS style stud mount roller rockers, modded Chevy solid roller lifters and a TA roller cam with the LT "Hot" grind. The intake is fully custom with vertical runners and centered vertical dump injectors from a top plenum fed from an inverted M112 blower and will use the same Enderlie style bug catcher as the last two engines, at least until I see fit to make a new one. The block is deburred and coated inside and out with Cerrakote silver ceramic as are the outside surfaces of the other engine parts.

So to some extent it is a stealth engine as in appearance it will strongly resemble the 215 and Rovers. It'll take me much longer to install the 346 than it took to pull the 300 but I hope to have it adequately tuned for the British V8 meet.

That should be it for this thread. Unless I remember that other detail and decide it should be posted.
 
Jim