Fast cars front suspension

[Rog]

I was wondering if anyone can help me out.  I am wondering what ball joints Ted used on his front suspensions.  He told me once, and I forgot!  I need to replace the boots on mine.  I contacted Senneker by email and asked them, but they never got back to me.  I also need some slightly heavier springs for my QA1 shocks as mine are screwed in quite far to achieve ride height.
2.5 inches of thread showing.  Can anyone help with these questions?

Roger Haber
Hartell, Alberta
Canada

[kstevusa]

Roger, sent you an email with info on measuring the joints and getting Poly Boots.  This showed up on our Jaguar Forums.   Google __ball joint poly boots for xk8-- and click the link with Jaguar Forums.  It will give several threads about getting boots from A/M sources.    Hope this helps.

[rficalora]

I need to do the same on mine; one side is torn.  

Roger, I've not researched the ball joints, but the hubs (at least the bearings) are Pontiac Fierro.  Maybe the ball joints are from the same application?

[kstevusa]

The article I referenced were from a XK8owner who purchased his Poly boots off E-Bay from a vendor in Bulgaria.  Took awhile but he was pleased.  Also listed info how how to order along with measuring the 3 dimensions needed to order correctly.  Jaguar Forums is not to be confused with Jaguar Forum, they are different.

[MG four six eight]

Roger,

I believe that the uppers are Chevy Chevette, not sure about the lower ball joints though.

Bill

[MGBV8]

My understanding is that Fast Cars, Inc. is but a small division of Senneker Performance.  They are primarily in the racing business & may be operating with a skeleton crew due to Coronavirus.

https://www.sennekerperformance.com/

[Rog]

Thanks Guys for all your responses.  I can't believe it's this hard to get simple information.  I emailed
Senneker a couple of times, and no answer.  When I emailed Ted Judy answered immediately in spite of her situation.
Well hopefully someone will have the answer.  Thanks again everyone, hope to see you in Auburn.
Roger

[mowog1]

I've found that repeated attempts through phone calls and e-mails is best.

When that fails...contact one of us here via a Private Message.

Magic can happen.

[rficalora]

Speaking of magic, I reached out to Terry.  He advised that the ball joints are:

     Upper is k5292  ,. Lower is k 6273 (moog numbers)

And, in case your local auto parts place only knows how to find parts with year, make, & model, I looked on RockAuto and those correlate to the uppper & lower ball joints for a 1982 Chevy Chevette, 1.6L I4.

Putting it all together, here are the notes I have on serviceable parts on the IFS.  Hope this helps.

Hub bearings - '84-88 Pontiac Fiero front hubs for bearings
     -- Inner bearings - Timken L44649 (bearing) L446410 (race/cup)
     -- Outer bearings - Timken LM1179 (bearing) LM11710 (race/cup)
     -- Grease seal - National 1174; SKF 692447
     Tighten spindle nut to 50 ft/lbs while turning hub; back nut off one full turn; tighten again while turning
     hub to 10 ft/lbs; back nut 1/6 to 1/4 turn to align cotter pin.
Ball Joints - Chevy Chevette (e.g. 1982)
     -- Upper:  K5292 (Moog)
     -- Lower:  K6273 (Moog)
ALIGNMENT SPECS:
     -- Camber:  zero to 1/4 degree negative
     -- Caster: 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 degrees positive (per FastCars; others recommend 4-1/2 degrees positive)
     -- Toe:  Toe In 1/32" to 1/16"

[MGBV8]

Thanks, Rob!

[MG four six eight]

X2 thanks Rob!

BTW, is there a consensus for going with more positive Caster vs Fastcars recommendation?
Both of my washers are set for max positive caster which if memory serves me correctly is about 3 1/2 degrees.
Sometimes the steering feels a little light at highway speeds to me and I've thought about modifying the upper A-arm mount so I can add another washer to gain a little more positive caster.

Bill

[TR6-6SPD]

Bill,
I fabricated new upper control arms moving the ball joint 7/16" rearward, giving me 6 degrees caster.
I don't have the car on the road yet but that's what I run on my TR6 and I like it

New UCA placed on top of old. 7/16" rearward:

[MG four six eight]

Thanks Ken, that looks good! Did you use chrome-moly, also did you have to fabricate a jig?

Bill

[IaTR6]

Ken,
I understand the movement of the upper ball joint rearward to increase caster, however I wonder about the lower.
The trunnion and lower control arms are connected by a straight pin, and the assembly lends itself to movement
in only rotation, but not side to side. It would seem attempting to move the upper pivot (ball joint) to the rear,
a bind would be introduced into the trunnion. I don't have any idea how to include a ball joint to the bottom of
the upright, but that would allow easy caster changes. Maybe there is enough flexibility in the trunnion connection
I don't see?
Thanks,
Dennis

[74ls1tr6]

Dennis,

I believe talking with Ken awhile back, he made some tapered washers by the trunnion on both sides to accept the degree difference on the pin.

[IaTR6]

Calvin, Thanks, that explains it to me! I like reading about changes made by other owners,
even if i don't implement them myself. But, you can never tell!
Dennis

[TR6-6SPD]

Bill Jacobson,
Sorry for the delay in replying.
No chrome-moly, just DOM.
As for a fabrication jig, yes, of sorts. I have a flat plate that I often build from. That, and some spacers kept things aligned.





Dennis Costello was asking about modifying the TR6 trunnion, which deserves a separate thread. I'll contact him via PM.

[MG four six eight]

Thanks for the reply and pics Ken!

What I ended up doing was removing 3/32" from front of the tube where the upper A arm attaches. Then added a 3/32" thick washer to the caster adjustment washer stack. This moved the A arm back by 3/32" which yielded about a 3/4 degree change in caster.
My caster reading are right at 4 1/2 degrees now and I do like how the car drives.

One other mod that I made years ago shortly after I installed the front end, was to add a steering dampener from a Pontiac Fiero. I ran the dampener with the stock front end also and it does a good job of dampening road shock due to the wider wheels and tires that I run.
Edit: to see the other pics, you may have to click on the blue text above and below the pic.
 
Bill

[roverman]

" Torque spindle nut to 50 ft/lbs"- really ? Is it "possible' someone meant 50 in/lbs. ?  Art.

[rficalora]

Art, you have to read the whole thing...

"Tighten spindle nut to 50 ft/lbs while turning hub; back nut off one full turn; tighten again while turning hub to 10 ft/lbs; back nut 1/6 to 1/4 turn to align cotter pin."

So the 50 ft lbs initial torque just seats the bearings.  Less than 10 ft lbs when done.  Not unlike MG where you tighten till the hub stops turning, then back off a 1/4 turn (at least that's how I recall going the stock MG).

[BlownMGB-V8]

Timken type tapered bearings are engineered to be run with a certain amount of preload. It keeps the rollers from skipping and developing flat spots, and done correctly does not increase friction or cause heat buildup. American spindle installation practice is designed to approximate the ideal bearing preload without expensive and complicated measuring apparatus. It is an approved method for most tapered bearing maintenance.

The practice of setting MGB wheel bearings with freeplay was a holdover from the old ball bearings used in earlier MG designs. Ball bearings set with preload are prone to failure, so they had to have some freeplay. Timken bearings do not and should not. Fortunately our spindle bearings are oversized for the application and generally survive the abuse of a freeplay installation.

jim