Sunbeam Ghost from 35 years ago. I need my head examined

[nakedhacienda]

Thanks for the swift reply, I was thinking today about it all and wondering if I am not going about it all wrong, it HAS a Mustang rearend (5 Lug) that is a bit wider than the original and the Front end, it also has a bit of a scary steering gear arangement, cut bent and welded to get around the 289, sooooo what do you guys think of me Keeping the existing rear end and replacing the frankenstein front end with say a Mustang II front end, I either have to fix BOTH or the Front end, I started thinking maybe I make the Front Track match or exceed the existing rear end. Would save a lot of time.    Your thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance...

JohnS

[mgb260]

John, The Mustang rear and 5 lugs are fine but, the idea of the flares are to get wider tires with stock length axle. You would have to narrow the Mustang rear. The Sunbeam stock axle is about 50" wide and the Mustang is about 56". Are you sure it is an 8" (no rear cover) or a 7.5 or 8.8 newer Mustang rear(bolt on rear cover)? You can use MGB steering arms and rack and pinion on the Alpine crossmember similar to what the Tiger did. Here is another thread with a picture and Ford Ranger 5 lug hub/rotor.

http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?14,41178

[nakedhacienda]

I will crawl under and see, but it was put in in the Mid 70s and reportedly (from the previous owner) is from the Mustang that the 289 came from along with the Auto Transmission.   It has 5 Lugs and the wheels are put up Dished in to get them in the wheel well.    I put a tape measure on it and believe it to be a 56" Track width (center of tire).    I'm thinking why shorten it?    I couldn't widen the front end to sometjhing equal or maybe 1" wider?    opposed to replacing the rearend that is in it?    Not trying to be obtuse but would you illuminate the drawbacks?   Thanks for all the INFO!  

JohnS

[mgb260]

John, You can use adapters in front that widen the track like the rear. 2" thick, two piece that go from 4x4.25(108) to 5x4.5. Then you would need positive 41mm offset wheels(FWD)like these to bring the tires back in. Wouldn't look too bad, painted silver with knockoff center caps. 205-50-15 tires. Still would have to trim the fender lip and bottom of front valance. You would still need to go to rack and pinion steering. Read all those other threads for more ideas.

http://prowheeladapters.com/wheel-adapters-wheel-spacers/4-lug-to-5-lug-wheel-adapters/4x108-to-5x114-3-2-wheel-adapter.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-X6-Pacer-Black-FWD-MOD-83B-Black-5x4-25-5x4-5-41-ET-83B-5614-Single-Rim-/310853855917?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item4860556aad&vxp=mtr

[nakedhacienda]

Thank you for all the info!  Here are some Pics, perhaps the Restoration/Rebuilt will not be so bad, maybe something I can actually get done!  I spoke with a guy at a Transmission Place, He said 1 K for a T5 Manual rebuilt and he could install it for that..Doesn't sound too bad, he suggested I sell the 289 and opt for a 302 with the 4Brl Holley I have, reasoning is the 289 is desirable for the restoration market and I'm not restoring this to factory so the 302 maybe a better buy for me.  Sounds reasonable.   What do you guys think?    Here are some Pics as well.  Thanks in advance for the opinions and/or direction..  Any Help in Identifying the Rear End and what perhaps my options are would be greatly appreciatted!




johnS

[nakedhacienda]

Here is the Front End.. and the Only End I got to see for over 35 Years..

[mgb260]

John, Definitely an 8" rear. Those rear wheels look kind of scary. On the front of the differential there may be a tag saying the ratio and if limited slip. 2.7something was common with the automatics. the Tiger had 2.88 rear. You may be lucky and have the 3.0,3.25 or 3.50. Show us some more pictures. I'd like to see the engine compartment. Body looks pretty straight. Factory hardtop too. Not much difference between the 289 and 302 value wise. There are millions of each out there. When they started calling it a 5.0 in the late 80's they lightened the block up considerably. Even so, they still take 700 HP before the block splits in the valley. I personally like the older  motors.

[nakedhacienda]

The rear wheels are really scary!   The front end is too!  The original Alpine steering gear is there, and someone cut and bent the offside steering arm and welded it back.  It is due for an upgrade, so I guess I am headed toward thinking of a donor Mustand 2 and cutting it down, the engine well is pretty unchanged, the Transmission tunnel is FRANKENSTEIN.    I will be cutting that out and replacing it with something a little more appropriate, with the engine, I didn't think of the Transmission as being that much larger.. I know I can get a T5 for 1000.     I'll send some more pics.

Thanks for the info

[mgb260]

Mustang II won't fit, You just need to pull the crossmember and adapt the MGB steering arms and rack. Chuck on the SAOAC forum has went to the Mustang II spindles on his cars with the stock crossmember. There are two aftermarket solutions, though expensive. I have a few ideas on a custom front suspension but plan on modifying the stock one first to use as a template for dimensions. Dale's Restoration has one. Here is a picture showing stock compared to Toysjunkie  front suspension.



Tiger with RHD Miata Power rack





Article on MGB steering arms and Midget rack, MGB RB would be better for rack,not as twitchy or hard to steer. The longer arms eliminate the bend in  tie rods also.

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickAckerman/pt-PaulickAckerman1.asp



A better idea for transmission tunnel on the Grassroots Challenge car and stock Tiger tunnel grafted on

[mgb260]

John to give an idea on what the steel wheels can look like. David Townsend at Plan B can reproduce the Dunlop decals.



http://planbillustration.com/

[nakedhacienda]

I like those Wheels!   I can't afford the expensive aftermarket front end.  Perhaps I will go the MGB route, I have a guy that has a 67 MGB as a possible source for the rear end and I could pull the front end for parts, maybe that is how I should go.   Thanks again for the direction and the posts.   I am a bit overwhelmed.lol


JohnS

[nakedhacienda]

I have found a 60s MGB no engine and body rusted, the owner is willing to part it out, so I am planning on buying the rearend, steering gear and anything else I might use,   maybe the pedal assembly and master cylinder would be good, any ideas?   The only down side is, it is set up with wire wheels, I guess even if it wasn't I would need to replace the hub to match the sunbeam.     I will look around the forums, someone else must have already been down this road....

   Thanks for all the info folks


JohnS

[mgb260]

John, It has to be the 67 and newer rear with rear cover. The earlier banjo  type where the diff pulls out the front like the 8"Ford won't be strong enough. The wire wheel axle is the one you want. Right width and the hubs can be machined and redrilled to Alpine pattern. For the steering all you need is the rack and both steering arms(they unbolt). Usually when putting a V8 in a Alpine they bolt up the brake master where the clutch master was. For the clutch they cut out the section where the brake master was and move it over for the clutch. Check out my threads on the 2000 Contour SVT rotor. The 7/8" 280Z master would be about right for disks in front and drum rear. 78 Dodge Challenger master for 4 wheel discs. Nissan V6 twin piston front calipers. PM me for more info.

[nakedhacienda]

Thanks again for all the info.. I will make sure it is a 67 or later, and get the R&P steering gear.  I think since I will be redoing the hub I may as well go for the 4 wheel disk brakes.

[nakedhacienda]

Hey I really like the look of that Dunlop Steel Knock off, and the MG rear end I am looking at putting in my Sunbeam is set up for WireWheels, I was wondering if I shouldn't keep the Splines and convert the Front to MG Splines and just buy MG Wheels.    Thanks in advance for your collective thoughts and opinions.

[mgb260]

John, Real Dunlop wheels are rare and special. I was just showing you what you could do with steel wheels. Kind of retro look. The  Alpine stock wire wheel is same as MG Midget splined wire wheel hub. It would be easy to convert the front to MGB as the inside bearing is the same as MGB. Outer bearing needs a sleeve for smaller Alpine race. Knock off solid wheels are usually 8 spoke Minilite style and very expensive. I would convert the rear hubs to Alpine bolt pattern and just get the solid wheels and fake knockoffs. Have you seen the 15 x 7 Mustang Turbine wheels in the other thread? They are Alpine bolt pattern. The steel wheels I showed earlier are FWD positive offset for wider Mustang rear width and adapter to widen front. You have lots of options to chose from, but you have to chose one.


+

[nakedhacienda]

Thanks.. Trying to figure out my route before I commit to a rearend and start pulling the the little thumper apart!   I did some looking around, you are right of course, the true Steel wheel Knock Offs are expensive but the stamped steel wheels are fairly cheap(hate the thought of a fake knock off, but oh well).  I'll go get the MG rear end and plan on converting to the Sunbeam hub. That should prove easy enough and solve several of my problems.  The problem is there is so much to be done to the car, I could really go in ANY direction.  Thanks for the help.  JohnS

[mgb260]

John, just cut the splined part off after the taper. Use a 2000 Ford Contour SVT rear rotor. May have to turn the hub down a little for rotor to slip on. Use a 7/16" transfer punch to mark the new lug holes between the existing hub holes. Drill with 3/8"  then 1/2". Contour studs are the same front and back, so get 16 for all four wheels. Pull them in with a lug nut and stack of washers.They are modern 12mm studs.  Use whatever lug nuts your wheels need. Contour SVT front rotors are vented 10.95 slip on for front. Nissan V6 twin piston calipers for the late 80's and 90's Nissan  V6 Pickup/Pathfinder 10.9 rotor are perfect for front calipers. You will have to make caliper mounting  brackets from templates,posterboard then plywood then steel(if under 3/8") or T6 aluminum(if over 7/16"). I use adapter fittings 10mm to Speedway Motors 3AN SS braided flexline then to 3/8" IF. You need 1 for each caliper and 1 for above the rear axle. 7/8" master from 78-82 Dodge Challenger 4 wheel disk brake with VW remote reservoir and blue hoses.

[mgb260]

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[nakedhacienda]

I found a 1986 Mustang with what I believe to be a Summit Racing 4.10 Pos I was told it was a 9 inch but maybe an 8.8, looks like I can shorten it fairly easy.  Also has 4 pretty nice wheels (4 Lug) which solves some more of my problems.  Rear end is Coil Over and Drums.  Question if you guys have time, is there a draw back to the 8.8?  

This car has a 302W with 44,000 miles on it, set up for FI but I figure I will get a GT40 Manifold and put my 4 BRL Holley. I can get the whole enchilada for less than I will scrap the remainder of the car for, less my mileage and effort.

[mgb260]

John, If it has 4.10, it is way low for the T5. Probably 2.9 to 3.2 if stock ring and pinion.

[flyinlow]

That is an 8.8 not a 9"  
Ford 9" differentials are drop out type without a rear cover.
I would pull the cover and check out what you have including gear ratio. If you have one hub held can you turn the other one?

[nakedhacienda]

I am not sure if it is, the owner says so, just not sure he knows, it had a T5 and a 302W.. Curious, I will check tommorow though.. I guess I could always put some other gearing in it, if it isn't appropriate, I still think this is a pretty good deal at $600 bucks.  Thanks for all the input!   I need it.  At least I am headed in one direction now.

[nakedhacienda]

Looks like Jim Nichols is right.

 T5/T45 (manual transmission)3.55/ 2000 RPM's  3.73/2250 RPM's or 4.10/2350 RPM's for 65MPH..

[mgb260]

John, That's with .68 fifth gear. multiply first 3.35 x rear ratio. Ideally should be 11 to 12.  I looked up the 86 8.8 and stock ratio's were 3.08,3.27 and 3.55 with the T5. If the guy said it was a 9", I highly doubt he put a 4.10 in. That rear has the Alpine pattern already. You could use a spacer in front and the FWD offset steel  wheels without narrowing. Maybe roll the fender lip or use flares. Ford Focus had 14" and 15" steel wheels with the Alpine 4 x 4.25 pattern.