5-lug Front Hubs?

[DC Townsend]

The 5-lug MGA post got me to thinking. I've seen at least one guy - Jim Nichols - who has changed his MGB front hubs out for 5-lug versions. 64-66 Mustang hubs I believe. Any one know of any other possible interchanges? Early Pinto or Granada hubs for example. They're plentiful, inexpensive and there are a number of lightweight/performance substitutes available (they're used in several classes of racing). Might be a nice addition to the knowledge base if we can get a list together. And, yes, I'm familiar with the Fast Cars and Classic Conversion offerings. Just interested in something less expensive that might be done with off-the-shelf- components.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Both early Mustang and Camaro/Monte Carlo hubs have been done, with machining required in both cases since the bearing races are set further apart and need to be moved in to fit the MGB spindle. It's a fairly simple operation but does require precision in the set up and machining. However, parts suppliers no longer offer the 2 piece hub and rotor for the Mustang, meaning that a rotor change requires a new machining operation. Brake pads last a very long time however.

The Camaro upgrade has been used for decades on the Arntz-Butler Cobra clone which used the MGB front suspension.

JB

[DC Townsend]

Jim,

Any particular year on the Camaro/Monte hubs? I did a search for the early two-piece Mustang hubs and see that Rock Auto still offers them (or at least their web site claims they're in stock). Wonder if there are any parts suppliers for the Arntz-Butler cars. Not still in manufacture are they? Thanks for the response.

DT

[MGBV8]

Many years ago Werner Van Clapdurp used 5 lug Porsche 944 vented rotors w/Wilwood calipers & custom brackets.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Late '60, early '70s would work, not sure how long they used the same pattern. Used them with Dodge Dart calipers of the same era, just needed to elongate the bolt holes a bit, and the pads hung over the edge of the rotor a little I think. Splash shields were left off I believe.

It may still be the least expensive option, but a bit heavy.

JB

[rficalora]

David, you know Bill Guzman has 5-lug hubs, right?  Bill is a member here & you can reach him @ www.classicconversionseng.com

[bplus]

68-72 chevelle rotors and early 70's dodge dart 4 piston calipers are over the counter option.
Outer face of brake rotor requires minor machine surfacing for retaining nut and cotter key to
fit properly on mg spindle.  Brand new brake rotor requires approx 1/16" taken off both sides
for the dart 4 piston caliper to fit. Suggest you become good friends with a machinist to use this
route, machine work in Jacksonville, Fl isn't cheap. No dust shield. Forward tang on mg spindle
must be cut off and then rewelded to bolt on the dart caliper.  That's the route we took on my
brother's mgb.  Heard rumor of toyota pickup truck rotors 78-83 I think it was (chevrolet bolt pattern)
being a slide on fit using stock mg calipers, still researching that one for another car we're building.  
Also read somewhere here on this forum that ford ranger 5 lug brake rotors fit, haven't verified that
yet either.  Good luck, hope this helps!

Tracy

[mgb260]

Toyota truck rotors are Ford pattern.68-72 Chevelle,Monte Carlo and 68-69 Camaro are the same. It would be easier to use a drum brake hub and S-10 4X4 slip on rotor. Then make brackets for the S-10 caliper.Here is a picture of the same years GM drum brake hub with  large Corvette rotor.And drum brake hub(taller) compared to disk hub.Last picture early Mustang V8 hub.

[DC Townsend]

Jim, good information (again). Could you fill in some detail for me? In the first picture, is the hub on the left the Toyota or the Monte? Rotor on the right in the same picture? I'm a bit confused as there seem to be a number of combinations. Maybe good to do something like: 78-83 Toyota truck hub + etc.

Thanks for your help. Had my sis look up your location in Sequim (benefits of a small town) in the hopes of maybe hooking up with you the next time I'm up that way.

[mgb260]

David, Both hubs are 68-72 GM/Chevy. Left is disk brake,right is drum.The one by the rotor is a drum brake hub upside down.The drum hub would move the rotor out away from the tie rods.The rotor is 63-80 12"Corvette slip on. S-10 4X4 also is 10 1/2" vented slip on. I guess you could redrill hubs  and rotors to Ford pattern.You might have to find the Chevy hubs in the junkyard also,most disk brake versions new are like the 67-69 Ford all one piece.I think those are what Jim Blackwood used.Toyota hubs won't work,different races/bearings.The Toyota rotors might work with the stock calipers .They are solid behind the hub rotors  and would be used with the Ford hubs and Toyota studs. I've found usually it is a good idea to use the studs that go with the rotor.I prefer vented rotors if you are going to all the trouble. It would allow for 5 lug wheels though. I work rotating 12 hour shifts at the paper mill in Port Angeles, Most of my days off too lately. Let me know plenty in advance if you are coming  all the way up here.

[mgb260]

David, Some excellent pictures of  the Chevy/Dodge Dart setup on the Roadmaster thread/page 5, MGB page this site.Note the one piece hub/rotor and close to tie rod end.The 83-92 Ford Ranger hub/rotor I tried looked about the same.B Hive, I think, sells smaller tie rod ends.

[mgb260]

Here is a different idea. This guy cut down the GM rotor/hub to 5.73 diameter to use a 4th gen Camaro/Firebird slip on rotor.For the MGB you should  bore the inner race hole 3/16" deeper and trim 3/16" off. Also bore to MGB seal size.There is enough material you could drill Ford pattern between the Chevy pattern on hub and rotor.

[BlownMGB-V8]

OK, that is interesting but that last photo looks like a rear suspension. What are we looking at there? Also, what did he do for the caliper?

JB

[mgb260]

Jim, Very observant.That is a rear suspension on a Chevelle. The guy used the same 11.92" rotors and matching calipers from a 4th gen Camaro/Firebird(98-02 LS1) front and rear. That is the only picture he had of the rotor.For the caliper adapter he used a flat plate front and rear. MGB would be different, but I like the idea of cutting the original rotor off and using the slip on rotor.

[mgb260]

Here is a pic of the caliper adapter for the Chevelle to F body conversion in above thread.MGB would be similar ,different thickness and bolt spacing. Also a pic of LS1 front rotors and calipers. Jim, the F body brake conversion on front would make a good match to your  Jag rear.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Not bad. He cut the rotor off the hub? Then machined the back of the hub? Not a whole lot more work to cut a hub from billet I suppose. Something to think about anyway. The rotors look promising. It'd be nice to find an alloy caliper that is a close fit to the MG spindles.

JB

[mgb260]

Jim, Those calipers are aluminum. The same as C5 corvette except bolt spacing and fins just on top of caliper.He calls them LS1 calipers but actually all 98-02 Camaro/Firebird even V6 have the same front rotors and calipers. I did a search and found it is a pretty popular swap for early Camaro's and Chevelle's. Some had to grind the fins on top of caliper to clear some 15" wheels. About twice the piston size of previous single piston calipers and much larger pads. Plus rotors are 1 1/4" thick.Also some aftermarket rotors varied, one guy had to go down to 5.6" to slip rotor on.Why would you machine the back side?Oh, yeah. I forgot, the mod for MGB bearing spacing.I have seen 68-72 Chevelle rotor/hubs for as little as $35 on Rockauto.com.Junkyard hub/rotors much less. If I didn't already do the Ford/Toyota setup I would think this would be a better option.

[mgb260]

O.K. How about the rear hubs. You could modify replacement Jeep AMC 20 hubs to Chevy or Ford bolt pattern.Same splines as MGB.Trim the diameter down ,copy MGB taper on both sides. Or you could buy flanged one piece axles from Moser(quoted $380 pair last year). You would have to send an axle with hub and bearing for them to copy.I'm still researching my idea of a Dana 30 4X4 type locker conversion and a source for new 3.31 ring and pinion gears. Here are some pics of the Jeep AMC 20 hubs and Jeep one piece axles(much stronger).

[BlownMGB-V8]

Jim, that sounds like a very good option, and one I may consider over the winter since I need to migrate from my Mustang brakes and bolt pattern. I used stock wire wheel hubs (forged), removed the flanges and pressed on new flanges made from cold rolled steel, welded them in place and then machined them and drilled the new pattern. I could re-drill the hubs for the Chevy pattern easily enough. Then I'd need to work out the backspacing for the caliper mount. Any info on the price of the Chevelle calipers and rotors?

JB

[mgb260]

Jim, rockauto.com usually has the best prices. Remember 68-72(put in 70) Chevelle rotor(rotor/hub). Then you need 98-2002(put in 2000) Camaro calipers and rotors. You could get the hub/rotors off a Chevelle in the junkyard,you would cut the rotor off anyway. You might luck out and find an original hub with separate rotor and just turn down to fit the Camaro rotor over it.If you are going to redrill your existing hubs you just need the 98-2002 Camaro rotors and calipers,might have to turn down diameter same as inside rotor for easy slip fit.

[roverman]

I'm seein a lot of "heft" in these photos. Mazda mid 80's+, RX-7 an maybe Miata , nice/strong alum. hub, 5 on 4.5" 1.3/8" inner bear id. Nice alum. 4 pot caliper(same). US. Brake 11" x .810" vented rotor,uses a hat, $40 up. Got more  $'s ? Willwood ?  Good Luck, roverman.

[mgb260]

Art, The GM hubs are probably lighter than stock MGB and use the same bearings. I don't know about the RX7 hubs. I will have to look at them. I do like the calipers; they have been used on 300ZX rotors and are similar to the later 350Z calipers. Will only work with .88 or so thick rotors.The bolt pattern is good but I don't know about bearing spacing or size.You might be able to bore the race holes or use different races for the right bearings. I do know you are partial to aluminum. The Camaro/Firebird/Corvette calipers are aluminum. You wouldn't use the stock  iron brackets, slider bolts like aftermarket Metric or S-10 caliper mounts.Plus, the 12", 1.25" thicker rotor would be heavier but less likely to warp.

[DC Townsend]

This thread just keeps getting better. When it comes down to actually putting this stuff together, looks like there will be some choices to make. It's good to have options.

[roverman]

Probably adequate for most sports cars, lighter than RX-7's. Oops, RX-7 is 1.499" and .787" on bearing id's. Like I said STRONG. Alum. bush the hubs down to preferred bearing ? roverman.

[MGBV8]

"...an maybe Miata"

I believe only the latest generation Miata sports 5 lugs/wheel.  The 1989-2005 were 4 X 100.