MGB Cargo Bay Car

[MGBV8]

Darn!

[BlownMGB-V8]

Well look what followed me home!





Naturally the first thing I had to do was weigh it on my grain scale



Pretty light for an engine at 152-1/2 lbs



Combined with the transmission weight of 175lbs (and yes, the tranny weighs more than the engine!)
we end up at 325 and change, or the weight of just the engine in a 215 swap.

And this for a displacement only about 200cc less than the B series, in an engine that is fuel injected and will probably kick its butt.

Considering a T5 weighs about 75, the flywheel a good 20 and the clutch and pressure plate close to the same that puts me better than a hundred lbs ahead of the game. Include a radiator, antifreeze, and fan and I'm approaching 150. Might need a fan though. Probably. To compare to the stock B subtract another 30lbs or so. And more to come. I think it'll account well for itself once everything is done.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

Naturally I had to do a test fit.



Looks like plenty of room but bear in mind the car needs to get 10" narrower.



But at this point it looks pretty darned good.



Bear in mind this same engine was built with up to 110 cubic inches which is the same as the B series. With S&S wheels and jugs you can go at least to 120 CI which is nearly 2 liters.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

The EFI appears to use mostly GM components which should simplify things



The alternator has the 3 wire connector which I assume means it's 3 phase.



The rest of the connectors don't seem to be anything very special.



Except maybe the one for the ignition trigger.



The output shaft has a 1-1/4" x 24 tooth spline I'd like to find a split tapered bushing (like Browning or Morse) with a 1.25 x 24 internal spline. I know it probably exIsts as I've seen a 1-3/8 with an internal spline.

Jim

[MGBV8]

Hmm, wonder if my tranny would bolt to it.  

Put the engine out front like the Morgan.  

[BlownMGB-V8]

Something to be said for that approach, but the Morgan is entirely too much of a dinosaur to even be considered. It's not amenable to an automatic either. I have never been comfortable with their sliding post suspension, and even it would have to be cut down to fit. It is a surprising 20" too wide, 10" too tall, and 30" too long, arguably a worse starting point than the B.

I checked the runout on the output shaft of the HD, it came out to .005" so I think I'm good. Reports are that up to .030" is acceptable.

Jim

[MGBV8]

I didn't say use the Morgan.  Too  expensive for what you want, anyway.

Just mount the engine out front, like the Morgan.  Engine get more air & no more engine bay space issues.  

[BlownMGB-V8]

That'd be pretty ugly wouldn't it? Not like the MGB tub is a pretty thing.

Jim

[MGBV8]

Actually, I thought it looked a bit odd on the Morgan.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Got started with the slicing and dicing yesterday, here's what 100 lbs of bodywork looks like:



Here's how much shorter the tub is without them"



Front view:



Rear view. I'd forgotten about welding up those speaker holes, I wonder where we came up with the pieces to weld in? They look like they were original but clearly could not be:



More slicing today I expect. Needs to be shortened at least 14".

Jim

[MGBV8]

"I'd forgotten about welding up those speaker holes, I wonder where we came up with the pieces to weld in? "

Inner part of the doors that we removed, I think.  You did a great job patching the holes.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Thanks. Somehow my welder was behaving that day I guess. I've fitted it with .030" wire and it does fine with that on 1/8" steel so I'll try it on the sheet metal trying to weld spots before it melts through. If that doesn't work I'll try some flux core with and without shield gas, .21" wire on 110 because it might be the welder I used to patch the rear bulkhead and if it was it needs a shot. Otherwise I'll stick .030 wire in it and leave it that way. Borrow a couple mig welders and see if they can do any better.

Got some more metal removed, well actually I sliced off the front end and will now cut away something between 14 and 15" before sticking it back together again.

Jim

[MGBV8]

I keep .023 in my MIG.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Taking a break after getting the parts separated and building the vanity cabinet for the bathroom sink in the bus. Still have to make the drawers and finish the bathroom trim, I found some nice teak for the shower threshold.

But I've been looking at front suspensions and I think this one looks pretty good:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134773304648?_skw=go+kart+brakes+kit&itmmeta=01K06VKFG6S3NNDCD0VAEWCEMQ&hash=item1f611d6d48:g:q60AAOSwNqJkiEBO&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dFtKcK3AvHbMe6XhiIl4qOD7F6ABWXw8HP1Ma4uPSS0RYLT55qvtR--qgFpQ8su1aus8lfavyJ2YPRakhBoEyGRSvat%2FUwj7jc7d51IP5lDN03fOfrJ3z0GBMuHqS7wsV642t%2FotPbwyjtUYH%2BwMd4Z2UKBFohaRe3pPP%2FTOLtA%2BqckYgP3SAPCE9dM7%2FBpU9g8cKbK6usA5wsc6T8KP5QOKd29VssSPtvVmwhFhInWRoUvnMqwnSDEsOZPMcQIPk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9r4zduBZg

The shocks are rated for 400lbs so the parts should be good enough considering I won't be racing it. Brakes might be a little marginal for the power level but again, not racing it. I expect fade would be the concern. Anyway that should let me drop a bit of weight if I went that route and not saying I will, but it points me in the right direction if I start modding the MGB setup. I think I would like to retain the Armstrong shocks and spring setup so I can use the airbags.

Looks like I can buy just the pieces I want so skip the control arms (use MG) and basically just get the brakes, hubs and spindles plus the steering rack. There may be other options but these would be compact, light, and not overly expensive. Plus matched to the rack which is a bonus. Something to consider while putting the body together.

For a lighter rear axle I could maybe go with Spitfire parts. I'll look into that. The Salisbury axle would undoubtedly be plenty strong but also plenty heavy and would have to be cut down. But it costs nothing and that's a plus. Eliminating the springs will get rid of a good bit of weight. Maybe tubular shocks and airbags there. Maybe a panhard rod.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I bought a compensator that was removed from a post '07 103 (twinky) and it does show a little wear but I'm going to try swapping in one of the '07 belleview washers for the smallest one in the later spring pack and see if that will work. If the ID is close enough it should be OK. I've got the rotor chucked up in the lathe to cut off the outer cup for the earlier spring pack and that should let it go together and then I'll look at the stack up. I think it takes a strange mind to come up with this mechanism as a driveline shock absorber. Possibly a French influence? I dunno. It's an odd one. More likely agricultural. Here is a photo of it assembled on the engine, the washer swap idea didn't work, at least not on the first try. The small spring is compressed almost flat but I don't know if it is available individually. If it is, it would be possible to stack two of them. This might limit maximum rotation in the compensator or it might not, but it definitely would stiffen it up. As far as I can tell the complaint with these was that they became noisy at idle, making a "whirring" noise. Since the 103 makes more torque at idle it may be fine on the 96 or it may be worn enough to be noisy. If it is I'll try stacking the small washers.





I will need an adapter between the sprocket and the flexplate, which is being delivered today. That adapter needs to be 2" thick to avoid interference between the compensator bolt and the converter pilot. A centered hole for the pilot would also be a plus. I can use an aluminum ring of 6-1/4" diameter to make that, either a slice of round bar or possibly hollowbar but to get the pilot hole the solid bar would be better if more costly. Depending on tooth count which I hope is an even number, perhaps 6ea 3/8" bolts matching the sprocket circle can thread into a backing plate of perhaps 3/8" steel and provide a secure attachment to the sprocket. If the tooth count is not divisible by 4 or more I may have to revise this plan.

The next part would be a flanged aluminum adapter sleeve to mate the Lexus bellhousing to the engine which thankfully has a round concentric pattern for the primary inner cover. Those bolts will be on the inside, and a plate of perhaps 1/2" aluminum or maybe 5/8" will bolt to the bellhousing. Simple, yes? Even the machining is not complicated. Both flanges can be cut from the same piece of plate for a bit of a cost savings but I'll need to find a source for the plate at a surplus price.

Meanwhile work continues on the RV bathroom with the cabinetry only needing hardware and the shower sill and broom closet door ready for install. I'll get to a good stopping point on that, hopefully with the plumbing complete, and then get back on the bodywork of the cargo car. First order of business is to cut away any bits in the way of telescoping the front section back into the tub and then clean up the matching edges. At that point I will start mig testing which needs to be done before the 30th so I will know whether or not to drag a trailer to Milton in order to borrow the brothers' mig units.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

34 teeth. This presents a different challenge. Bolts can be 180* opposite so balance is not interfered with, but the pairs will have to be unequally spaced as 17 is a prime number I think. So using 3 pairs and 18 divisible by 3 we have 6, 5, and 6 teeth between pairs. Will mount in 2 positions only. The backing plate needs to leave room for the big spring to flatten out and it can't be very thick so studs welded in is the likely answer, possibly with countersunk heads and just enough tig work to prevent movement. Lock nuts on the outside. Yep, I think that works and the backing plate can be as thin as about 1/8" if it needs to. It really only needs to resist the bolt torque, the engine load will be taken on the adapter ring and the sprocket teeth. Proper centering will be crucial as well as minimizing runout. I expect the tolerance on the Aisin input bearing is pretty tight but I'll need to check it. This part is coming together well but it's a little longer than I'd like.

Looking at the possibility of using a Spitfire rear suspension which should be lighter, and after reviewing the ATV/golf cart suspension packages for sale it looks to me like modding the Brit parts might be the way to go. Need to get a good look at the Spit suspension, maybe someone will have one at Townsend.

Jim

[MGBV8]

I do not recall a Spitfire ever being at the Fall Gathering & I have not seen one at Jim Watson's.

[BlownMGB-V8]

Yeah. I'm leaning towards a bugeye axle, it should be a better width. I've posted a question on the AH forum about axle width, hopefully I'll get some good info. I've gathered that the bugeye axle is narrower than the Midget and that the ww axle is narrower than the disc axle. Even an inch here could make a difference. Also asked about the weight.

Looks like the front end parts are similar to the B except for one armed shocks. Might as well use the B parts and do what I can to create lightness. Probably not much, though the tires might net me around 10lbs each.

Jim

[Dan B]

Spits use a swing axle setup

[BlownMGB-V8]

Presently looking at Midget axles, one of those looks like it should be just narrow enough to work. It would be lighter as well, Finding one might be a little easier and mounting it definitely would be.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

A buddy has offered me a free MGB Banjo axle so I'm going to go that route and narrow it. Might get down around 125 lbs that way and do a 4 link with air bags and the stock Armstrongs. Stay with the stock front end but narrowed. I can set the width to suit that way.

The last day or so I've telescoped the front sections of the tub and they match up reasonably well. It'll be no problem getting 14-1/2" there and with the donut tires I can move the axle forward a couple inches. I have room to spare. Here's a couple photos.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

More shots, maybe you can see the difference.









Pretty happy with the results, may even be close to as symmetrical as the factory was though that isn't a real high bar.
Anyway, the main parts are joined back together if a bit incompletely. I'll get the bellhousing this week and then start on the longitudinal cuts. But I think I'll keep the center of the cowling with its fresh air vent. The absolute minimum it would have to be narrowed is 6" which doesn't sound too bad but I think 8" or more will be more practical considering its intended purpose.

Interestingly enough, I loaded  a spool of .030" wire in the Azzuno mig welder and it likes it. Has transformed itself into a well behaved machine and is making good welds. Is it possible that all this time I've been shooting myself in the foot by trying to use .023" wire? Certainly seems like it.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I've decided to dig out the old rotisserie for the narrowing operation. It has full width small channel iron rotating beams that I can use to keep the sides aligned as I move them in and I will need to rotate the tub to do all the welding and fitting up the suspensions. Kind of a space hog though. Plus I need a section of floor that is level enough. That sounds like today's job. Maybe I can cut down the size of that rig a little though, it is entirely bigger than it needs to be. The feet are kinda long too. Originally we built it as a pair of infeed/outfeed stands for a rotary plastic film processing machine we built decades ago, then we re-purposed it on the first Roadmaster body shell. Since then it's been sitting on the outside pad collecting rust. But it should be perfect for this job, even has a hand crank for rotation. Probably should use a stringer and weld the two ends together this time though. If I do that I should be able to cut off the feet and make the whole thing more compact. Maybe make the stringer(s) a bolt-on piece. Time to get to work.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I drug the old rotisserie out of outside storage yesterday (aka junk pile)



It was old, rusty, way oversize and not particularly well suited for purpose so my first job was to do a little redesign.



It had all of the necessary parts other than a connecting beam. The rotating spindles are MGB, there's a t-case chain for a brake and a set of winch gears for rotation. After reducing it to its component parts we have the following shot.



And finally, here it is all reassembled and ready for service in supporting the next phase of the CarGo bay car. Attachment will have to wait until next week though as I will be in W.Va. for a few days.



I have 4 chunks of square tube that I'll weld to the body. Those can then slide on the rotisserie's cross beams and be clamped down with c-clamps or welded if need be.

Jim

[BlownMGB-V8]

I did get the chance yesterday to do more.





The tub is up. rotates fine, and I've moved it out of the lift bay.

I think what I'll do is slice and reweld one side and then the other. Maybe rig a stabilizer across the middle but I'm pretty sure the end stubs will handle any tendency to twist.

Off to visit with Dan in the hills of *West* by God Virginia.

Jim