Hi everyone,
I've read on here a number of times where this motor has been mentioned but never much past that.
I know a few people have started but nothing finished.
I found a 76 TR6 that was all a part and the body was in bad shape. As always, it was worse than it first appeared and it appeared bad! But the price was low and the frame is good.
So far ive gotten a 2018 Impala LXF and a 6 speed AY6 manual out of a 2015 Camaro. I'm using an Infiniti differential with 3.50 gears.
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all of these shots are of test fits to see if i was wasting my time,
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That looks like a nice fit. Have you tried the headers?
The TR6 engine weighs 430lb, the LFX... 360lb... so no big problem there.
As you say, a bit different.
It's good that you won't need to eat into the firewall air plenum.
Also good that you're checking with the cast H bracket in place, without that the body loses significant support.
The engine makes, what, 250 lb ft? So if you want to simplify things by keeping the stock rear end, a Nissan R200 diff from Richard Good and a pair of CV drive shafts, would handle the torque. That diff is good for 400 lb ft, as I recall.
I do think that simpler builds are more likely to actually be completed......
Look forward to seeing it finished next year.... :}
Ivor
Thanks Ivor
I already have the rear diff installed using Richards kit but still need the axles.
Its surprising how well the engine and trans line up. I did have to modify the fire wall on both sides where it hits.
I havent gotten the down pipes yet to see, but it looks like they should be no problem.
I'm working on the body right now, the battery tray area was pretty much rust.
Ken
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Well that looks good.
Might need some heat resist under the bonnet/hood.
So if you do the minimum to get it on the road, leave the cosmetics for a retirement project, you really might be driving it next year. Epic.
As a matter of curiosity, did you actually have a chance to drive the car before you pulled it apart, or another TR6?
Ivor
This car i picked up in pieces out of North Carolina. I hadn't driven a TR6 before starting this project but have since driven a couple, one being a fresh total rebuild.
I had a TR7 back in the day and also an MGB which i swapped a GM 2.8 into back in the early 80's.
I have wanted to build something for years now and picked the Triumph after a few friends started theirs.
I realize this car probably won't be popular with many and i may end up wasting away a lot of money on it BUT I'm enjoying the build.
I'm only posting because i searched and search for just this kind of information when i was planning this. I'm hoping it helps anyone else out that might be compilating anything similar.
Ken
Well it's good that you've at least driven one.
I knew a chap who had a TR4, then he bought a basket case TR6 and restored it to the standard where you'd arrive at an event and start polishing the suspension with a toothbrush... in conversation, he said that he'd never driven the car before he began the resto, he didn't like it, wished he'd never started, and planned to sell it.
So you've covered that base :}
I'd get the headers before you go too far with the footwells.
Ivor
Ivor you might be right about the exhaust, this engine only has a single down pipe on each side but I went back and looked at Keisler Automotive site and his downpipes would hit the firewall. I'll have to make them come straight down.
I can relate to the guy with the TR4 and TR6, the first car i drove i didn't like, the second was much better. But I'm determined to make some changes to hopefully rectify some of those concerns.
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Yes, one simple thing with the driving... the factory seats have thin backs.
Now, I'm only 6'/32" leg but when I put Miata seats in mine (low backs) firstly I had to be careful with the runner positioning to get the maximum travel between hitting the trans tunnel and colliding with the rear arch, and secondly I had to use very low runners otherwise I couldn't see under the screen.
That done, it was fine.
If the driving position is not right, one will never he happy with the car.
The other thing that is worthwhile is a mesh wind blocker to go behind the seats and prevent the wind coming at you from behind. Really makes a big difference to comfort... which can be especially useful if one needs the Other Half to enjoy riding in the car and thus being content with the time and money it absorbs :}
I believe Moss have one.
Ahh yes, here we are https://mossmotors.com/wind-blocker-2
Sorry, nothing to do with engines...
Ivor
Ken, Please consider starting a project journal. A project of this magnitude should be well documented and available to the masses. Looks like a good start.
I started a project thread as you suggested, But i think i may keep both threads going because i would like some feedback from others who have obviously more knowledge than I do with these cars.
It might appear that my pictures show pretty much the same as before but actually a lot has changed since then, for one ive changed out the oil pan for a rear wheel drive pan from a Camaro, nobody seems to mention this is mandatory to match a rwd transmission bolt pattern, it also fixed the problem of motor mount locations and allows the motor to sit lower and more forward than before.
I've ordered the exhaust down pipes elbows from Keisler Automation, so far i believe ive got that part figured out but am well aware that like always it might create more problem.
Most of the body mods and repairs are done that im aware of.
I believe my next big problem will be the alternator location, right now i hope to locate in on the passenger side in its original location just tucked closer to the motor, very little room for it.
If you haven't done it already, be sure to reinforce your differential mounting points as that's a weak area even with the TR4 engine. So make them very strong. Also anything you can do to reduce frame twist is going to be an advantage. Large tubular cross braces are helpful in resisting longitudinal twist if you can find room for them, Maybe one in each of the spaces forward of the swing arm mounts and perhaps something behind the diff. One each side behind the engine may also help and you possibly could even find room for one forward of the steering rack. For longitudinal bracing you could plate the recessed fame rail edges and that should help quite a bit.
Jim
Thanks Jim, those are items i still need to get to. i keep looking at what everyone else has done and plan to take this frame apart hopefully this winter.
I've looked for a good place just behind the engine but it would end up too low in the frame.
I know from reading that the differential mounts are a problem. i plan on not only boxing them in but wrapping around the frame.
Kenny
If you look at modern ladder frames you will almost always find a tube of 2-3" diameter welded across the side rails joining them together, this keeps them from twisting lengthwise. The tube is often out at the ends of the frame. Since your frame has the center rails and the outrunners you can also place these in the outside space. Should stiffen it up quite a bit.
Jim
Finally got the exhaust down pipes. Looks like easy work to get the exhaust like i want. I just need to buy the rest of the pipes and start cutting
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Engine Bay getting closer
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Another test fit with shifter, I'm glad i did but im disappointed that all that nice trimming i was so proud off...turned into crap lol
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I see that you have done some strengthening of the mid/front chassis.
Have you considered further strengthening at the rear to minimise the flex and twist that occurs at the cruciform?
Also the differential mount points may need to be beefed up a bit.
Jim
Thanks, both of those areas are what I'm working on next, right now I'm taking all the suspension off.
I'm trying to decide on the best way with the least amount of weight added. The twisting is something I'm most concerned about
Any suggestions besides the kits already offered?
One idea I've been kicking around is a support inside the cabin tying the frame outriggers too the pedestal
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I know I might not be able to because of the seats or getting it to sit flat against the floor, but this is something i want to explore
Kenny, IMHO...you will have problems with the rear chassis unless substantial strengthening is done....extra weight is unavoidable.
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The flex and twist occurs at the weak sections where indicated.
I have completed various strengthening measures on my project car.
One being,,,,welded in 8mm x 65mm plates 900mm long to the insides of the middle chassis rails, centred at the cruciform area.
Your idea of welding in braces that encroaches into the cockpit is valid.
I achieved a similar outcome with chassis modifications.
Malcom you mention "various strengthening measures", was this something you did all at once or an evolution of modifications?
Do you have any pictures available?
I did reinforce the upper t shirt area at the back where it forms an "arch" by adding a strap inside.
I've got to replace the lower T shirt which is when i will add a wider strap under and tie it together. I just dont believe that is enough.
As for the weight i just meant i wanted to look for the best idea with the least penalty, Strength being the 1st priority but not go crazy.
I'm open to all suggestions.
Kenny
I'd avoid encroaching on the cockpit, it will add complications, although if you do opt for a roll structure of any kind it becomes more reasonable.
Crossways round tube members of large diameter are often used to brace long frame members against twisting force. Perhaps that principle can be put to use.
Plating suspension attachment points is a sensible reinforcement method in the TR frame, at any and all relevant locations.
Jim
My 4A factory chassis has an extra bridge forward of the main diff cross member.
My main intention was to fabricate a steel structure from the front of larger custom made cruciform plates to the rear diff support, linking the tops of all three bridges together.
I also welded in a pair of flat plates so as to both bolt a roll cage directly to the chassis through the body and to provide a platform for mounts for telescopic shock conversions.
Welding in plates to the insides of the centre chassis rails is the primary strengthening.
I am having problems attaching pics, as my files are probably too large.
Giving some updates. Finally finished the frame mods, I plan on using a roll bar to beef up the frame.
Painted the frame and now putting it all back together.
I did add to the T shirt area to stiffen it up some. some of it might just be token support but it can't hurt.
One last mod to the body, at least I
hope it's the last.
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The places where we saw failures were the attachment points for the front control arms, and at the rear the differential attachment points. I've also seen the rear control arm attachment points rust away. You might want to beef those up a bit.
Jim
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I added the usual brackets, is there something besides this? I made pieces to box the whole thing in but didn't add them.
Looks pretty good to me but I'm no expert. The front control arm brackets were especially flimsy where they are bolted through the frame rails.
Jim
Some new updated pics
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Glad to see you're making progress Kenny. Thanks for sharing with us. The 3.6 LFX looks like an excellent choice for swapping in a TR6. I have a TR 250 I'm thinking about doing the same swap. I was wondering if you have considered what type of ECU you will use.
Keep up the great work! Dan
Thank You!
I would recommend a E39 (stock ECM) from Kiesler Automation, quick turn around and lots of parts. Thats also where i got the Exhaust down pipes from. DO NOT order anything from Swap Specialties, I'll leave it at that.
Tracy Lewis Performance is the guy i plan on getting the car tuned by.
If you do decide to go this route let me know and I'll pass along all my mistakes so far. no reason for you to repeat them.
Thank you Kenny. Appreciate your passing that on.
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Getting ready for the driveshaft and then exhaust
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Kenny, here's something else for you to check while it's exposed. Dan used solid mounts for his steering rack in his TR4A and recently had a problem with a catch in the steering. After replacing the joints in the column and a bunch of testing and swapping we finally traced it down to the tightening procedure for the rack. It seems he had taken a little extra trouble to remove any slack between the mounts and the rack body so it couldn't shift from side to side and the result somehow put the rack in a light bind and caused it to get tight at one spot. When we loosened the mounts up it went away. Then we found a tightening sequence that didn't make it tighten up. I think it was caused by prying the solid mounts against the rack flanges but that's something that should be easier to check now than later. We did the final tightening without any sideways prying and that worked fine. I think the clamps are enough to keep the rack from shifting sideways, which of course the OEM rubber mounts allowed to some degree.
Jim
Thanks Jim, i know there is a little plastic button that as i understand is something to be careful with. I'll have to put the steering together enough to see.
I'm using a quick rack with solid mounts on my TR6. It's very sensitive in regards to it's positioning. I use washers to space it and take it easy on torqueing, otherwise it will bind.
The rack itself us to be set up properly too.
It's a pain.
Hey Ken, I spent most of the time just trying to get it centered and even side to side but you're saying the rack itself needs a certain set up?
Finally made a little more progress, I got my driveshaft adapter made and test fitted. It took a couple tries but I like the results, now if only the stock driveshaft and U joints will hold up. Adapter is .50 thick 7075-T6
Also tried out a 3d printed spacer on the brake Booster, it still needs some work.
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Muffler mock up
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Let me just say anyone thinking about doing this type conversion you need to sort out the exhaust FIRST, what a pain!!
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I followed Calvin Grannis idea of putting a X pipe inside the T shirt...It doesn't fit very well, very tight and I'm sure its going to get hot.
if you plan on this you need to fit it first and then decide where you're going to run your brake lines.
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That certainly simplifies the exhaust plumbing. Can't say it would do much for extraction so it would seem the performance potential would be limited. Still, how much is enough?
Jim
Its the stock set up with an X pipe. The hot ticket from what I've read is they swap out the LFX heads for the older style LLT heads ported for the larger valves with traditional headers. I can't imagine trying to make headers fit in this tight space.
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Kenny, if you enter a space between your photos they display better. Just a helpful tip.
Jim
Got it, Thanks.
The T shirt area has been the worst to get everything to fit. But finally, I think I've got progress.
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Finally done with the exhaust routing, it took several tries till i had something that didn't look like it would rattle or be too close to something. Still closer in areas than i would like but I'm sticking with this. I just hope it sounds right.
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Another round of test fits. I decided since the exhaust was now done i might as well see how it fit.
I'm glad i did, it taught me that the Downpipes (headers) need to be on when the motor goes in,
also, that unless you just like fighting nuts and bolts that the diff end of the drive shaft needs to be installed.
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I also learned that my body work will need to be much larger if i have to mount an alternator on the driver's side.
A few more updates
I ordered a CTS coolant pipe after tons of research and like most things in this swap it will need to be modified, I'm still looking at options to get this to work.
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Also finished up my sway bar mod.
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It probably seems like a weird point in my build to be thinking about the console but I'm at a bit of a lull waiting to sort out my radiator and a few other things.
So, i started looking at my options.
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Might as well try the dash just for the fun of it.
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A few more pieces added
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I made a stand to put on a trailer, I'll be praying to whole way to Dillard. Still need a few more braces.
Also worked on making some wing vents
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1st time back out in sunlight in a very long time.
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Hi Kenny, this info is very helpful, I just picked up a Camaro LFX for my 61 Morris Traveller, I see you used the factory T56 6 speed manual, is the transmission the LS/LT opt MV5? I was also wondering if you could tell me what shifter unit you used, from what I have seen the stock shifter is extended way back.
Appreciate the help,
Louis
Hey Louis, yes, i used the MV5 and the shifter came off Ebay for the Camaro SS, I actually got it by accident. I did cut the shifter rod down but can't recall exactly how much.
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2010-2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS Genuine GM Manual Short Throw Shifter 24260334
Update
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pedal from a 2015 Cadillac CTS
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radiator from 2012 Malibu 3.6
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I had to add an Idler Pulley to route the belt away from the wiring,
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I also found out that by using this radiator i couldn't use the Factory Bumper brackets that come off the frame. I came up with these brackets but know they're not as good as the Originals.
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started working up how to seal off in front of the radiator
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My Dash was already delaminating so i scrapped off the surface and want to try my hand at Laminating it. I'm not too sure this will work but it's cheap enough to try and if it doesn't work, I'll buy a new one.
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time to start the radiator hoses and coolant lines. I just need to figure out where to tie in the reservoir.
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I found a spot for the remote filter mount right under the steering shaft
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Thanks for the update Kenny. I'm following your progress in hopes of doing similar swap in my TR250. Looked at the Kiesler ECU and wiring which looks like the way to go. Anxious to see how it goes with your swap. Great work your doing.
Agreed, great work!
It takes a lot of skill to make that much "stuff" fit like it's supposed to be there.
Hey, Thanks for the support. It's a work in progress and Electrical is way over my head.
Fred, if you only knew how many times all of that stuff has been in and out of that body.
Daniel, Please post pics once you get started, I love to see new ideas
A few updates, finally settled on Wing Vents
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It's exciting to be assembling stuff! But those last photos raise a question. Would it be feasible to change brackets and shift that fuel tank way lower?
I'm not sure. It's a tight fit as it is. What do you see that concerns you? I'm willing to look at other options. this is what I've got so far.
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mocking up an air box after trying different locations
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I'm thinking of pulling air from below and behind the box, cooler air from under the car
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Latest Update. No real progress on the wiring harness but I'm digging into it.
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I was asked to show how i mounted the radiator. pretty simple really. I don't know if its common on any other radiators, but this one is from a v6 malibu. It has a channel on bottom and top that i used.
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