Still zero oil pressure when I spin the pump through the distributor shaft. I have replaced the front cover and oil pump. What are the most likely causes? (I may have not gotten all the air out when I forced petroleum jelly into the pump.)
Also: I added the steel shim to bottom of pump to eliminate the wear problem. In doing so i made is impossible to change the oil filter without loosening a motor mount and lifting the engine a bit. ( i'm using the shortest filter that fits.) The pre'94 Rover V8 has a pump cover which faces directly forward. Yet I have never seen a 215 Buick using this. Any ideas? ( D and D doesn't list the swivel mounts on their website any longer.)
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
How did you force the petroleum jelly into the pump? Did you take it apart & pack it?
It was done two years ago. I believe the new pump was installed in the new front cover after it was on the engine. I recall the difficulty
with the petroleum jelly because I was on my back in my garage.
Are you driving the distributor shaft/pump in the CW direction when priming?
Had a similar problem on a fresh rebuild once. Turned out the gasket on the pickup tube shifted and was covering the hole in the tube. Only one bolt went there the holes in the gasket. Pull the cover and repack the pump before you try anything else. Another trick is to over fill the sump with oil. The higher the oil level, the easier it is to lift the oil with the pump. Get it high enough and it will fill the pump on its own. Fill the filter with oil before you try and prime the pump.
Check that your oil pressure relief valve is assembled correctly. Mine wasn't.
Don't go by what is listed or not listed on D&D's website. Call them.
Few years ago replaced the gears in my pump, then same as you, couldn't get any pressure.
Turned out the paper cover gasket was too thick.
I got a replacement from ahhh, JE Engineering I think it was, that fixed it. Oil pressure in a couple of seconds with the drill.
As said, fill the filter first.
The petroleum jelly does dry out, needs to be packed well in.
Ivor
Yes, the gasket sets the clearance between the gears & the housing.
Thanks for the multiple suggestions.
I have a hunch the gasket where the filler tube attaches leaks air. I will try that first. I hate to pull the cover again but may need to do it to check the pump to face clearance and to get fresh petroleum oil fully packed.
Yes I have been spinning the shaft clockwise. Got something right!
Here's what I have tried, without success.
I removed the filter and pump cover. With the gears down I packed the chamber with petroleum jelly. I loaded the shaft with jelly and the driven gear. Also stuffed the other gear with jelly. When I pushed them up into the chamber I wiped off the considerable excess petroleum jelly.
Using a "metric" pump cover from Silver-seal I screwed the cover and filter up tight.
Spinning the pump shaft drive clockwise I could feel the strain as the pump spun the jelly. I had high hopes that it was sucking through the pump then pushing the oil into the block. STILL NO PRESSURE!
I pulled the pan to check the gasket where the oil tube connects to the block. Not a problem.
I have ordered a new oil pan gasket.
Now what?
I recently primed my engine. I have never used jelly, simply ran a drill as long as it primes. This time it took quite long, maybe a minute or two. But primed anyway. I don´t know for how long you have tried but it may take some time.
I made an engine pre-luber out of an old brake pressure bleeder tank. Basically I put motor oil in it instead of brake fluid and then made an adapter fitting to connect where the oil pressure gauge sender (or pipe) attaches to the pump. Works well and pre-lubes the entire engine as well as priming the pump.
You could also use a speed-sprayer for that. I haven't, but it wouldn't be hard to do.
Jim
Please enlighten me. What is a speed sprayer?
Sorry, Speedy-Sprayer. Huh, couldn't find it. Maybe that was just a colloquialism. Here ya go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG2NNt2ZeDQ
Jim
Might be a specific store brand or manufacturer and picture was worth a thousand words. I have several different iterations in my shop. Thanks for the info and should be simple to adapt
I had to replace my front cover and now my engine only has about 25psi cold, previously I had about 70. I ran the pump with a drill until it sprayed oil out of the remote oil filter port. Could I be suffering from a priming issue? I did not know about packing the pump with jelly
New cover, or used?
I think you have to look at the pressure relief valve, and the clearances in the pump. Including, as I mentioned, the thickness of the cover gasket.
http://www.v8wizard.com/oil-pump-no-gasket.php
Unfortunately, he doesn't say what the thickness should be, but I do know that too thick destroys the pressure.
They prime easier with jelly, but once it's primed then it's down to clearances.
Ivor
I did some reading and believe you are correct. It is a used cover with remote oil filter adapter plate.
This for Buick 225 V6, but should be the same or very close for the Buick/Olds/Rover aluminum V8s.
QuoteThe Specs for End Play clearance are .0023-.0058. Obviously tighter is better and I like to see them at .002-.004 max. T.A. Performance sells a gasket shim kit # TA-1704 that helps to attain those close specs. If the gear bore side walls are grooved or if worn to the point whereby the clearance between the gears and wall exceeds .006-.007 thousands it may be time to think about getting another timing cover.........Spec for side clearance is .003-.005.
http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/blueprint-225.118867/page-5
Presume it had a remote filter previously?
They do somewhat drop the pressure.
Although not that much.
Seems that the brand of filter can also influence oil pressure, if you changed that at the same time?
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/oil-filter-causes-change-in-oil-pressure.448506/
Or perhaps this is folklore.
Ivor
Previously I had the filter right off the timing cover, I had to undo a motor mount and tip the engine to remover filter, so while I was changing the timing cover I went to a remote filter
I removed the fittings, pressure relief and filter bypass, from the remote filter adapter. The bypass did not have a spring like the stock oil filter adapter but the pressure relief appeared to be the same as stock. I stretched the spring and now I have zero oil pressure. I think I am going to have to remove the adapter and give it a better look. Engine is not making any noise like you would expect from zero oil pressure.
Ok, so earlier today I started the car so my dad could hear it, I had 30psi. I took both fittings out of the filter adapter and stretched the spring for pressure bypass, 0psi after that. I took the adapter off and saw that I had two gaskets between the timing cover/pump housing and filter adapter. Removed one, which looked quite a bit thinner then the one I left but it was ripped, still 0psi. Last thing I tried was to replace the stretched spring with another I had, still 0psi. Any ideas? Btw when I first ran it, even though the oil pressure was low for cold it only dropped 10psi after it had been at temp. And another thing I noticed is the lines to the remote filter did not have much oil in them, I figured if it was pumping oil the lines would be full even if I had low pressure.
Hmm. So you made two change at the same time. The cover, and the filter.
If you really had 0psi then lifters would be rattling, and by now, the rod ends.
The filter, if tilted downwards, needs to be of a type with an anti-drainback valve.
Given your filter access problem, can understand you making the change to a remote.
Otoh, how often does one change the filter?
Think I'd take the easy way out and put it back as it was. Then if you still have a problem, it's the cover.
Long and short filters are available, if that helps.
Ivor
I pulled the adapter off and the gears out. Packed it with grease and reinstalled everything. Primed it with a drill and now have about 35psi. I think I need to play with the clearance now to get the pressure back up to where it was.
Anyone know why TA says to pack pump with jelly and not grease? I already used grease
I am going to Order the TA booster plate and shim kit unless someone advises otherwise.
RPI say Vaseline or grease. I think it's generally easier to fill up a hole with Vaseline
Anyway, if it's primed, either was OK.
So what hot oil pressure do you have now? Around 25-35 at 2500rpm on 20/50 oil, would be ball park.
Ivor
Young olds Vaseline has been commonly used for ages to prime oil pumps. It just breaks down and incorporates into the oil and will harm nothing in the engine. As for grease it will do the same but has a much weaker bond/stiction for priming. Vaseline is thicker and tackier.
I am out of town for work. When I get back I will check over what my oil pressures are now. I do not have 20/50 in it but will put some in.
Lucas make a 20/50 with good zddp level.
https://lucasoil.com/products/hot-rod-high-performance/hot-rod-classic-car-20w-50-motor-oil
The thing about the RV8, it's a volume system rather than a high-pressure system.
Never seen that 70psi you mention. Wonder if your old prv wasn't working.
Ivor
Last time I ran it I had fresh 20/50 in it and cold start was 65/70 psi and hot was 30, but then I got water in the oil and it was down for almost a year until now. I put some cheap 15/40( with one quart of 30) to "clean" out the oil passages. When I get home I will drain and fill with good 20/50. Wear plate and shim kit are on there way as well.
Good oil pressure begins with tight bearing clearances. Properly set up this engine will easily produce upwards of 10psi/1000rpm running 10w30 oil. If you cannot do that, the first suspect is the bearing clearances. However, many owners run anywhere between 20w50 and straight 50 wt oil as a band-aid and that does work. I've even heard of 60 wt being used, though infrequently.
Read everything you can find on oiling. Search terms such as oil set-up, oiling mods, etc. When you have done that you will have a better idea of the proper way to go about this. And for god's sake, if you are building an engine keep your bearing clearances tight.
Jim
Buick oil pump mods. Some of these mods only apply to the bigger Buick engines.
"I'm rusty on the 215, but the oil pump configuration is somewhat different than the other Buicks. I think you should call TA and discuss it with them, hopefully it is something simple in the oil pump area. For instance, the oil pressure sender port is on the pump cover (not in the block) for the 215, plus I think the regulator passage is different and I think there are two of them??? I also know that you have to drill additional holes in the booster/wear plate if you added that. "
http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/OilingMods.htm
These are for the Buick V6 turbo. so should also be applicable to the Buick/Olds/Rover V8s.
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/Oilpump.htm
https://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html
I was able to obtain an acceptable hot oil pressure of 28psi at an 850rpm idle, 180 degree temp.
Acceptable??!
Better than new, I'd have said.
Yep, better than mine.
Using a power drive to spin the oil pump I can see that oil is getting to the rocker shafts on both heads. However no oil pressure registers and I can see through the translucent oil tube that no oil is coming through the sending unit which is on the right side of the engine. (I am using the metric pump cover to avoid conflict with the Healey frame.)
Nice to know that the rockers are getting oil but what about the cam etc.
The engine starts and runs but I shut it off out of fear of damaging the cam and bearings.
What now? I am using the Healey oil gage.
Did you find oil in the pump after spinning it? if so, maybe the relief valve is leaking, if not there is a leak on the suction side.
I unscrewed the relief valve nut. I replaced the washer with a fiber one and compressed the spring and tightened the nut. The engine has not cranked very quickly. Timing light showed only weak spark. The battery date says 09/2016 so I am replacing it today.
I have continued to chase the "no oil pressure demon" without success. I have just pulled the new cover I bought from Silver Seal and measured the depth of the pump chamber. My rough measurement is 0.890. I also measured the chamber depth in the old (1961-63) cover which reads 0.875!
I have never heard of any of these Buick v8 or v6 engines having an altered depth in the pump chamber. This explains why the pump gear is slightly below chamber level whereas originally the gears extended slightly,
This also explains why I have never gotten ANY oil pressure despite checking out all the possibilities you guys have suggested.
Am I the only forum member who has encountered this problem? If you had this problem how did you rectify it? Any thoughts, suggestions are appreciated.
BuickV8 board mentioned this issue. Gears should stick out slightly. Sand down .015 maybe.
Jerry,
Please go back to page one of this thread and read what Roger went through. There is a spec for how much the gears should be proud of the cavity. You needed to measure this long ago to pick the thickness of gasket prior to assembly. Sorry you are finding this out the hard way, many different gasket thickness are in the market and material. Thin ones out of a paper like material don't crush much but thicker ones most certainly do making it hard to pick the correct casket. Easiest to assemble it to make sure gears don't bind in the cover, but not loose to give lower or no pressure. Check out the Buick links listed by Carl etc for further help. They give details on the pump and also porting the cover and pump to help flow/ pressure loss.
<quote>
"I have just pulled the new cover I bought from Silver Seal and measured the depth of the pump chamber. My rough measurement is 0.890. I also measured the chamber depth in the old (1961-63) cover which reads 0.875!
I have never heard of any of these Buick v8 or v6 engines having an altered depth in the pump chamber."
</quote>
Is your new Silver Seal timing cover a Buick 215 cover or a V6 cover? Did you buy the one that comes with new gears?
Great page with Buick Oiling Mods.
http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/buickoilingimprovements.htm
Double check that you didn't receive a timing cover for hi volume & are using standard pump gears in it.
Hi Jerry,
what happened to the oil pressure problem? I am struggling with similar symptoms and cannot find a solution. Mybe i can learn from you
I'm looking forward to an answer,
Michael
What indeed... too often on forums one sees the problems but the OP forgets to post the solution. Been there done that.
Is the pump priming OK? Flow but low pressure?
One thing I never mentioned, if the pump won't prime then all the time it's being rotated with the drill the steel gears are rubbing dry against the alloy cover, and they can wear a nice circular gouge in it.
So a pre-oiler as mentioned by Todd on page 1 is well worth setting up to avoid this.
Ivor
Either take the cover to the shop and have them cut .020" off the mating flange or some very careful work with a belt sander, a micrometer, and a large new fine cut file. Then use the TA shim pack to set end clearance to about .0005" and pack with vasoline before startup. A little porting and polishing helps.
Jim