New member but not new to the site, i been researching the olds, buick, rover motors for years now and seem to always end up on this site so i figured id just join so I can ask questions and gain more info. I dont own a british car but i have an opel manta with a 215 and t50 im working on.
I've had 215's in a few olds f85's and I've always been interested in them but never modified one. I stumbled upon this engine and just had to have it, with the engine I got a chevy bellhousing adapter with flywheel, a dry sump pan and a nib crower stroker crank.
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Then I needed a car, ended up with the Manta. Then the fun began, most of the fun was building headers( picture is of an unfinished one) but luckily was able to pull that off.
Very Cool! Welcome aboard!
Looks like fun!!
Nice flares on the Opel.
I like it. Also those injector stacks are way cool. What can you tell us about them and the front cover?
Jim
I really like the RV8 style tri-y headers!
The injection is hilborn, the ports are larger than the ports in 215 heads so I'm assuming they match 300 heads or the gm race heads I've heard about. The only thing I know about the front cover is it says Micky Thompson and it's set up for a cam driven fuel pump.
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Thanks for the comment on the headers, This is my first time building headers and I've been working really hard on them. Excuse the ugly welds I only have a mig. Once I get them to fit how I want I'll smooth the welds and get them ceramic coated.
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Drivers side had to have the steering shaft pass through. Both sides are a tight fit and it whooped my butt making these.
Are there mini starters readily available? Mine has one on it that has a McLeod sticker but I never heard of them making starters, and this engine bay is so tight I can't fit a starter and larger then what I have. Would also like to know more about the gm race heads if anyone can enlighten me.
Realized I didn't tell you about the engine in the car. It's an olds block, buick heads( 10:1 comp and rocker supports), Erson tq20 cam, performer intake and quadrajet carb, and an aluminum flywheel. https://youtu.be/LnjXuLJF7NI video is with partial exhaust, from headers through x pipe ending under back seat area. Still not sure what I'm doing for mufflers.
Mini-starter. This is what I used on my Buick 215:
McLeod 810163 Mini Starter 1.4kw 215 Alm V8 Buick/Olds 156 Gear
DynoMax have very good flowing mufflers.
Silencers....I had a Flowmaster DBX on my 3.5 RV8. It sounded like a tin can. Previously a straight-through that was more like a slow-firing machine gun, until it blew its stuffing out.
Now I have a Hooker Aerochamber. Big improvement.
What sounds good for five minutes can become a real earache after an hour, and getting the sound you want without resonance or boom is a bit of a lottery. Demon Tweeks have a good selection of silencers.
Ivor
I already know what style of muffler I want it's just a matter of if I can fit them.
It doesn't seem so but does anyone have anymore info on the mickey Thompson front covers for these motors? I've seen one other one on a motor with hilborn injection like mine but it had a magneto where mine has a Mallory dual points. I've come up empty handed when I tried researching it. Also very interested to learn more about the gm race heads as well as the dual quad intake.
Roger, I don't know for sure but Mickey Thompson was involved with GM, Indy, Drag Racing, Off-Road and Marine. Probably Drag Racing or Marine. They commonly used cam driven water pumps.
An early article about the engine:
https://www.teambuick.com/forums/content.php?370-Excerpt-from-a-1960s-Buick-racing-book-on-the-215-sports-car-and-Indy-racing
That link requires on to log in to view it.
What was the name of the article? Maybe I can reach it via Google.
The article was called "Souping The Special-Hot Rodding Buick"
Spotlite Book 537
The website has free accounts and they are a good resource.
Jim
I see.
It is an excerpt from a Peterson Publishing book - Hot rodding the Buick;: Tuning and souping all Buick engines from Special V6 to 425 "Mystery" V8. Performance secrets of Reventlow's Scarab, ... dragster (Hot Rod magazine technical library) Unknown Binding – 1963
by Bob Russo (Author)
This link should work.
https://www.teambuick.com/forums/showthread.php?24467-Excerpt-from-a-1960s-Buick-racing-book-on-the-215-sports-car-and-Indy-racing
I suspect your Hilborn "butterflys", measure 1.8" dia. ? If so, same as mine. Mine has Hilborn pump and water pump driven, direct by cam. I was at Hilborn, in Laguna Niguel, when they were building the "last" shipment of (50), to Azland. GM,Buick and Olds, did some real odd-ball motors/parts for the Indy efforts. Unless you're a quite skilled corner burner/etc., you may find some challenges with Hilborns, on the street,(loading-up on low speeds). Story I was told, was use a excess fuel return tank, clos as possible to engine bay, (reduce load-up). Looks like a handful and fun. Good Luck, roverman.
Is there a timing belt set up available for these engines( instead of a chain)?
Had the engine running today, plan was to get it warm and full of water so I can set the fan controller. It was going well at first, nice oil pressure, steady idle, etc. then I noticed I was putting more water in then the engine should hold. Checked the oil and there is water in it, hopefully I shut it off before any bearing damage but I'm wondering if I have bad head gasket or something else. The block had a crack on the outside that leaked water, wondering if there is a crack inside.
I picked up a rover 4.2 hoping to only use the shortblock. Will all the parts from my 3.5 bolt on? I know a ton of parts interchange but am unsure about the flywheel. I literally want to only use the bare block and rotating assembly and swap the rest from my 215.
QuoteIs there a timing belt set up available for these engines( instead of a chain)?
Like a Jessel Belt Drive? They are quite pricey. Doubt they are available for the 215.
Yes like Jessel, or any other manufacturer.
I did some searching but I couldn't find the answer. Wondering what the piston dish volume is on the 4.2 motors?
Bit of an update. After about 7 months I was in a position to pull my engine. I had found that water was getting into the engine from the timing cover behind the water pump. I purchased another timing cover and sold the rover in favor of keeping my 3.5 olds. Since the engine has been out I have been able to finish my engine bay, suspension( working on finishing the front brake upgrade) and finishing up on the tranny tunnel. As for the engine I tore it down to inspect after the water in oil incident, ended up going with new bearings but the cam checked fine. Finished my headers and wrapped them as well as a few other things including cosmetics. Hoping to have a drivable car in the next month or two.
go Here for pictures https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/1975-opel-1900-sport-coupe/149921/page2/#post2725817 I believe I will have it driving here in a month or so
Roger,
Mickey Thompson was involved with the Harvey Aluminum Specials that ran Indianapolis in 1962
with Buick 215 engines - ( Dan Gurney's first Indy 500 - broken transaxle after 92 laps.) Your front cover may have come from some of his efforts to make the engine competitive in that arena - He claimed 330 hp on straight alcohol from a 255 cu in version of the Buick 215.
Wondering if anyone can tell me which port is oil out and which one is in in this remote filter adapter?
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I figured it out
Looking to put new springs in my olds 215 I am freshening up to replace the current engine. Appears to have factory beehives, I need something that will handle 7000rpm.
If they really are beehives I very much doubt that they are factory items. They hardly existed in the 60's.
Olds were the first with the beehive springs in the 50s I believe. Pic of stock 215 Olds beehive valve spring:
olds215valveSpring.jpg
Well live and learn !
Yep, standard equipment in the 215. Nobody quite knew what to make of it.
Jim
They also came in 394 Olds, used on 215's for more pressure.
Do 394 springs work with stock retainer?
As I recall- yes. Your results may vary. Com Cams and Pacalloy have MANY different beehives.
I used a set from Comp Cams around 1990 for my Camaro. They called them conical valve springs back then.
Conical valve springs are a little different. Not much, but the beehives pull in more at the top where the conicals have a constant slope. Modern beehives also use an elliptical wire cross section.
The objective is to both increase range to allow more lift, and to decrease the spring pressure requirement by reducing the reciprocating mass at the top of the spring and the retainer. I think the reduction in harmonics was an unexpected side benefit. That happens because of the increasing spring rate as the diameter decreases. Because the harmonic is a wave that moves up and down the spring, the increased rate damps it out. Probably the beehive is a little more resistant to harmonics than the conical design. It is claimed that a beehive spring and keeper reduces reciprocating weight (or perhaps it is the required spring pressure) more than titanium valves but I'm not sure if I buy that. However it seems pretty certain that one, the other, or both can significantly reduce the amount of spring needed for a given lift and RPM, thereby increasing cam lobe life and potentially increasing HP output.
Jim
Anyone run a crowed 50234 cam? Wondering if I can run it with stock pushrods and rockers?
Possibly. You will certainly need deeper valve spring pockets & the guides cut down for clearance.
Cam is too big for a 215. It is one size up from what we used in Chris's 300 stroker( 350 ). I used the 50232 years ago in a 215 and it worked well but didn't seem to wake up until over 2000RPM. I think the 50230 would be perfect for the 215 on the street. There is also a 50231 in-between.
I agree with, Jim. I think even the 50232 is too big for a street 215. I have one, but it is to go into a 3.9 or slightly larger version of a Rover V8.
The cam I have now is bigger then the 230, close to the 232, I do not think it is even remotely to big for the street. I have a couple of bad lifters and figured I might go for a larger cam.
All depends on what you expect from the engine. I have a .560 solid lift cam in my old Camaro. It gets to be a chore to drive after a while.
I had the CC 268H in my first 215 and liked it a lot. Not sure how that compares to the Crower though.
Jim
Do you remember the specs?
No, they discontinued that grind for the BOPR but it was still available for other engines. It was a bit warm though.
Jim
Comp 268H would have been:
218/218 degrees duration @ 0.050"
268/268 degrees advertised duration
0.285"/0.285" lobe lift
0.456"/0.456" valve lift with 1.6:1 rocker ratio
110 degrees LSA
Dan Jones
My current cam is( which I decided to stay with)
Single pattern
214 @ 0.050
292 adv.
.478 lift
On a 112 and 5 advance ground in.
I would think that a dual pattern cam would be helpful for the Buick/ Rover V8 heads.
Work on the opel has been pretty slow, new engine is together and nearly done but waiting for the car to be ready to accept it.
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I do not have any pictures of the engine but I will get some.
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I cut the inner fenders out, made down bars for the upper shock mount as well as to stiffen the front end. I decided to ditch the electric pusher fan in favor of a mechanical fan which meant moving the radiator forward for clearance. I have been loosely copying these, more so the factory opel car then the TE, https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/10805835/eport-te-2800-the-complete-story-opel-motorsports-club
Been a while, figured I would update now that the car is running.
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I had my buddy build me a coolant surge tank that adds 1 gallon to the coolant capacity, I had my stock radiator rebuilt into a 3 core and I am going to a mechanical clutch fan in place of the electric pusher I had before. I have replaced all suspension bushings with new poly, rear diff and pinion extension have been strengthened. I built 15x10/15x8 Oz Vegas wheels. Added a harness bar so I could instal my 5 point harness without a roll bar, probably a few things I am forgetting.
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I am liking it. It's different Should be pretty cool when finished
I forgot a few things, I removed the s30 flares in favor of the stienmentz box flares and have been working on these drla carbs to run on my harcourt downdraft intake.
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About those Hilborns, I suspect butterfies are 1.8" diameter ? Mickey ran 215 Buicks at Indy/etc. Possible Hilborn didn't have a timing cover/drive, at the time. That would never stop Mickey.
Welcome, Art.
You are correct on the hilborn. I was able to get my hands on a ranco magneto a few months ago, took me two years after I passed on the first one I saw.