Hello all,
New member here. I have a 1966 Sunbeam Minx with an ailing 1725. I've been searching for a suitable swap to modern EFI and have come to the conclusion that the S2000 F20C and 6-speed are the perfect match for this car (small, light, and powerful). I've seen the article on Joe Curry's 1963 Spitfire and was hoping to get in touch with him or someone else with experience with these engines. Specifically I'd like to know what ECU reprogramming was done and what software was used to do so. Same question on the wiring harness; what mods were required? Fuel pump used? Also, and this is a big one, I've read that Honda engines spin the opposite direction versus "conventional." Is this the case for the F20C and if so what rear was used? Perhaps a "conventional" rear could be flipped?
Obviously there are quite a few details to sort through, but I enjoy this kind of challenge. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Here are a couple pics of the car for your viewing pleasure:
DSC04424-1.jpg
DSC04426-1.jpg
Not familiar with the Minx so let's start w/some basics... like engine length, width, & height -- e.g., will it fit w/o a lot of cutting/welding etc.
Transmission tunnel -- width of the tunnel support the 6 speed you're looking at?
Rear end -- will it hold up to the torque of the S2000 (no idea what the torque is but something to consider)
Fuel pump... I'm guessing that car's tank doesn't have a return line so you'll need to plan for that... and depending on the fuel requirement of the S2000 motor, you may need a larger fuel supply line.
Just some thoughts to get the ball rolling.
Wow. Saucy Minx!
I don't know much about Honda engines - hopefully experts will chime in shortly - but I know a cool looking car when I see one. I bet there's room in that engine compartment for lots of different engines. More photos would be fun to see, if you've got time.
I take it that his engine bay is very similar in size and type to the Alpine? The front looks very similar.
Do you have any dimensions of the S2000 engine? Where does the shifter sit compared to the very front of the engine balancer/pulley? Are you going to run into shifter issues inside the car?
-BMC.
rficalora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not familiar with the Minx so let's start w/some
> basics... like engine length, width, & height --
> e.g., will it fit w/o a lot of cutting/welding
> etc.
>
> Transmission tunnel -- width of the tunnel support
> the 6 speed you're looking at?
>
> Rear end -- will it hold up to the torque of the
> S2000 (no idea what the torque is but something to
> consider)
>
> Fuel pump... I'm guessing that car's tank doesn't
> have a return line so you'll need to plan for
> that... and depending on the fuel requirement of
> the S2000 motor, you may need a larger fuel supply
> line.
>
> Just some thoughts to get the ball rolling.
It's not really a matter of will it fit. Take this V8 Husky for example (basically same as a Minx from the doors forward). http://www.whatsahillman.com/v8hillman.html
It's a matter of how little can I cut. That will be answered as it goes in. Fabrication is not a problem. The engine/tranny are on the way so I'll find out one way or another...
The rear end I figure I'll run the stocker until it either dies or I decide it needs to go. Then I'll probably go with a Dana from an old mail Jeep or a Tiger rear. I'll figure out what ratio I need based on how it feels with the stocker. IRS would be cool, but I want to keep it simple.
Fuel pump and lines are a good question. One I hope I can get answered by someone who's done an S2000 swap.
Thanks for the response.
Moderator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. Saucy Minx!
>
> I don't know much about Honda engines - hopefully
> experts will chime in shortly - but I know a cool
> looking car when I see one. I bet there's room in
> that engine compartment for lots of different
> engines. More photos would be fun to see, if
>you've got time.
Thanks. I'll definitely post more pics as I go.
BMC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I take it that his engine bay is very similar in
> size and type to the Alpine? The front looks very
> similar.
>
> Do you have any dimensions of the S2000 engine?
> Where does the shifter sit compared to the very
> front of the engine balancer/pulley? Are you going
> to run into shifter issues inside the car?
>
> -BMC.
I don't know how similar it is to an alpine. The shifter location I have looked into and though I don't have the exact dimensions, I do believe with a little fabrication I can move the shifter forward on the tranny if needed. Here's a pic of an S2000 engine/tranny:
F20C.JPG
Back for an update. I've made a some progress. All the pics I have uploaded so far can be viewed here: http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/e78999/Minx/F20C%20Install/?start=all
and here's a teaser shot:
P1010083Large.JPG
This is a really cool project!
Some really well-taken photos too... this one is worth a couple thousand words.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/e78999/Minx/F20C%20Install/P1010052Large.jpg)
Hey, did you see that since you posted here last we've added a "project journal" section? In my opinion, it has a couple big advantages over Photobucket - especially from a visitor's perspective. No thumbnails, and thus no mouse-clicks. (While the visitor is looking at one large image, other images are loading.) Also, you can intersperse captions and comments easily.
Thanks. I'm still looking for the best place to post a project thread. To be honest I prefer to have the ability for members to leave feedback. Many times there are good questions and/or suggestions.
Well, the project has come a long way since I last posted here. Thought I'd drop by any share my progress. Project update here: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010/03/08/guest-blog-anthony-crivelli-build-threads-com-gt-gt-sunbeam-minx-f20c.aspx
Looks great Mike. I really like the way you incorporated the S2000 shock towers into the Sunbeam chassis, very nice workmanship.
Hmm,
I have the same plan, only mine is to stuff a 240SX motor (cheaper) into a MkIV Vogue. Front end is the standard 'Super' design though. The most fun seems to occur with that steering linkage and clearance of the exhaust. Hence pick a motor that has the same intake/exhaust orientation as the rootes.
I'll be watching this with interest!
Couple of questions: Why all the Sunbeam scripts on a Hillman Minx? Was it called a Sunbeam in the US or something? In the UK the Sunbeam version of this body style was the Rapier. Also are you sure about that old engine being a 1725? Looks in the picks more like a 1500 with an iron head. What happened to that old lump? Parts for them are getting hard to find now.
Excellent work, looks great!
Rootes stopped using the Hillman name in the US in the early 60s. They were afraid of the bad reputation the Easydrive transmission got in the Hillman Minx. So we have Sunbeam Minxes, Sunbeam Imps, Sunbeam Arrows (Hillman Hunter) and even a Sunbeam Funwagon (a Commer caravan)
The engine would be a 1725, but in base spec with just 1 carb and a cast iron head. My Arrow estate had a similar engine, but I've made quite a few mods, including an alloy head, Alpine cam, and a custom EFI system.
hi i am new here and glad to join this forum community .. i am not more familiar with car engines but i know the powerful engines is like S2000 engines .. I like it ..
Have you been to his website lately? its looking awesome now
Hey guys. Well we're coming up on three years on this project ...still progressing! Not sure if I ever posted the link the my build thread. Here is is: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=332026 Over 41 pages of mayhem there. Not far now!
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/e78999/Minx/DSCN8807Large.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/e78999/Minx/DSCN8820Large.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/e78999/Minx/DSCN8815Large.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/e78999/Minx/F20C%20Install/Suspension/DSCN8795Large.jpg)
Wow, it's come a long way! Looks like plumbing your intake and painting the engine bay... What else do you have left?
Brake lines, fuel lines, wiring, exhaust, bodywork and paint engine bay, trunk, dash, trans tunnel, Raptor-liner wheel wells/underside, powder coat suspension pieces, dynamat interior, and 1001 misc items... But I'm pressing on!
Just cheked out your build site, that's some fab fab (fabulous fabrication)! Personally, I'm not digging the wheel choice. With that sedate body and those blingy wheels, it's kind of like outfitting your grandma with a thong from Victoria Secret. Maybe some big steelies would help with the sleeper look and would pay for themselves after you suckered some tuner cars into a few street races. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
"...it's kind of like outfitting your grandma with a thong from Victoria Secret. "
Cracked me up! Neville, that has to be the best comment I seen on this site in a long time. Should be an award of some kind for it.
Oh yeah, went through all 41 pages of the Minx build. Just don't seem to be enough superlatives to adequately describe the skills, ingenuity, and daring. Fearless!
My grandma looks amazing in a V.S. thong ;) The wheel choice was made in pure hotrodding tradition; use whatcha got! I had them left over from another project and they happened to fit the S2000 lug pattern. The front tires could use a little more side-wall IMO and that contributes to the blingification effect. I dig the wheels on this car though (hated them on the previous ride). Trust me, it takes more than a set of wheels for the ricers to tuck tail. If anything a touch of bling is a provocation.
However, I am planning to do a 2nd set in 16-17" steelies with the factory dog-dish caps.
Glad you guys enjoyed the build so far.
-Mike
Mike,
An amazing build. Your fabrication, and photography skills leave me in awe.
Can wait to see a video of it on the road!
Martin
'80 TR7v8
If it's too much of a sleeper, no one will ever test you.
I think that you have just enough of a teaser for them to test you.
Merv
Thanks Martin. Me too.
Merv, Just enough to make it interesting...
The only person I know on this site, would be Joe Curry, who has used an S2000 6spd in his 1963 Spitfire!
http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/JoeCurry.htm
Saw that one. Beautiful! Dual exhaust is not really helpful on these mills, but it sure looks cool on that Spitfire!
That is awesome,awesome work
update:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6wir3TjD8w&sns=em
Oh yeah, that has got to be a blast to drive!
I'm just finding out. Pushing it a little more every time I drive it. It has already exceeded my expectations!
Mike I checked out all of your work on that truck forum and I am gobsmacked by your work. I am sure with all the careful work you put into the suspension has paid off, I bet that little car handles quite well!!
Keep up the good work!!
Cheers
Byron
Thanks Byron, I couldn't be happier just getting to drive it. As I push it more little-by-little I can't believe the performance; unreal. Three years was worth it! Can't wait to take it on some real twisties! And to a British meet.
You've got to be under 10 pounds per hp with that. Looks awesome.
Mike, that is an amazing build. Great work. I have a '59 Husky with a quad 4. It has an 8.8 on stock leaf springs so I'm very interested in the Art Morrison 4-link you used. Any thoughts on that aspect of your build? Were there any tweaks to the kit or did you use the links in their supplied length? From your pics the chassis rails and rear seat pans of your Minx look almost identical to my Husky. It doesn't seem like too bad of a job. I'm happy with my ride height where it's at, and I don't think it's quite as low as yours. I might get away without messing with my inner fenders?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/mgbreis/photo-29.jpg)
Robbie,
Thanks. I estimate it's about 8.6lb/hp @ 2150lb/250hp :) Feels like it too!
Ryan,
Sweet Husky! Almost wish I started with a Husky or Estate (love wagons and hatches). The Art Morrison Tri-4-Bar worked out beautifully. Performance so far is better than I could have imagined. I used the link lengths as supplied. Worked out with luck that the fwd leaf hanger was in the correct position for the front/lower bar. The uppers had to be mounted above the seat pan in order to maintain the prescribed angles. All the angles, etc. are called out very clearly in the install instructions provided with the kit. Top notch customer service too. Let me know if you have any more questions.
-Mike
Thanks for the response Mike, I'll really have to think about this. I was already thinking about a 3 or 4 link, and when I saw your pics it really got me excited as our cars original chassis are so similar. Have fun sorting out the Minx, it is amazing. I've only been driving my Husky for about a month. It pales in comparison to how far your car is evolved, but trust me - you won't go anywhere without drawing a crowd that wants to talk about it.
You'll have to do something for coil spring upper mounts. My setup seems to have worked out really well. Ride is very sporty (not a caddy ride, but more comfortable than a mini copper sport).
It drew a crowd at a tuning shop when we stopped by the other day. Cameras were out and people were laying on the ground to see the suspension :)
It won't be making another appearance until spring. Started the tear-down for paint!
-Mike
I just saw your first video on Youtube. It makes me want to get back at it again! Looks like serious fun!
Curious to see what the painted car will look like!
Kristof.
Kristof,
I got on it a LOT more after taking that video (that was the literal first drive and didn't even break into VTEC). I can tell you the F20C/6sp combo does not disappoint! Especially in a small/light car!!
That was a full mock-up run (nothing painted and not everything powdercoated). Highly recommended for working bugs out (I found a few), and more importantly for reinvigorating your motivation! Can't wait to drive it in spring :D
-Mike
i saw on the forum you were thinking about a rotisserie. This guy made a simple but ingenious rollover frame to restore his Maserati Ghibli. Im about to help my friend build one for his Z.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=1139816&mid=212649&i=200&nmt=1969+Maserati+Ghibli+-+The+Resurection&mid=212649
That is a cool way to do it. Simple, easy access to all sides, and takes up less space than a rotisserie.
That's an awesome idea. I'm still leaning toward a conventional one for the hydraulic lift aspect.
rolloverframe.JPG
My friend almost has his rollover frame finished.He made the 45 sections a little longer so he can either put the car at a 45 or 90 degree angle. He basically made kickstands to hold it at 45. He said 2 people can just flip it, with 3 people its easy.