Gents, I recently had a high speed altercation with a Maserati. Pulled him by 2 car lengths up to 120MPH, at which point I decided I was too old to be doing something so stupid. As I coasted down, one of my oil filter hose clamps failed and the motor proceeded to empty the crankcase of oil. I averted disaster by immediately shutting down the motor but no longer trust my remote filter hoses that are held in place by standard hose clamps. So I have 2 questions:
1. Is there a premium hose clamp suitable for a high pressure line such as an oil line?
2. Would something like this be suitable http://www.ebay.com/itm/271526671100?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ?
A hydraulic hose will always be the most secure method, but suggest you go to AN- type or similar fittings if you have to use external lines.
Jim
Crimped hydraulic fittings and wire-reinforced hoses are typically rated at 3000 psi. Your oil pressure should never go over about 80 psi. Rubber-lined AN hoses and fittings add bling but are rated at substantially lower pressure. Only the teflon-lined AN hose is rated as high as hydraulic lines. Normal worm-drive hose clamps and rubber hose is not your best choice.
My remote filter is 1/2 NPT fittings. Since its NPT, is the line that I show in my 1st post suitable?
That type of hose is as good as it gets, they will never burst under normal circumstances. Make sure they do not chafe, once the rubber cover is cut moisture soon corrodes the wire reinforcement and they will fail quite quickly as they become an unreinforced rubber hose.
You can make your own quite easily by using the type of fitting in the following Ebay photo.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-Parker-Reusable-Hydraulic-Hose-Fitting-JIC-Straight-3-4-16-4411-8S-20620-8-8-/121637716621?hash=item1c522c428d:g:z2IAAOSw3xJVcwdf
You can buy these fittings in a multitude of combinations of thread size, angles and male/female thread. To make them up, you screw the elongated nut onto the end of the hose (left hand thread) and then lubricate the threaded tube and screw it into the elongated nut which has just been fitted onto the hose. As you srew it in the taper of the tube expands the hose securely onto the nut.
They are used extensively in agriculture and only fail due to neglect.
Philip
The NPT ends do create a problem when you go to hook it up. Visualize this: How are you going to screw in the second end of the second hose once everything else is connected? Bit of a problem, hmmm? Plan accordingly. This is why even hydraulic valves with NPT threads are usually fitted with NPT-to-AN adapters. Also avoid like the plague putting 90° fittings on both ends of a hose.
Your local NAPA and many other stores make custom hoses.
Jim
Jim, that's exactly what I figured out. There would be no way to hook up the 2nd hose to the remote filter adapter. Pondering continues.
Keith, we carefully measured and had them fabricated from SS high pressure hyd. hose (Overkill) and they added AN fittings to at all 4 ends. Due to tight space and mounting the filter at rear in an easily accessible position during draining process, the 4 AN ends were invaluable. Note: used Crowfoot wrenches to connect to adapters and ported the oil filter adapter that attached to the block.
Porting and attention to pump end clearances are invaluable in terms of oil pressure. On my 340 Buick I have 60+ psi oil pressure, 15 psi at slow idle.
Jim
I have no idea what AN fittings are, in the UK the most common are BSP (British Standard Pipe thread) , the female ends are almost exclusively of a loose nut type which you can clearly see in the photo from ebay. The beauty of them is that they are interchangable ie all 1/2 males will connect to all 1/2 females.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSP-Female-Straight-Re-usable-Hydraulic-Hose-Tail-Fitting-Insert-Mild-Steel-/131414489037?var=&hash=item1e98e9f7cd:m:mIa7ADoZultUeMkWDNsuSCA
If AN fittings are a US equivalent they are ideal and a loose nut fitting on one end whether a crimped or reusable fitting makes for easy fitting.
Philip
Phil, the AN fittings are a US standard (the An is Army-Navy). These are standardized so all branches of armed forces use same tools. The are 37 degrees flare and almost bullet proof, our std flare is 45 degrees. . Probably have to source thru US company that has racing supplies. Summitt. Jegs, Speedway Motors to name a few. Also available on E-Bay US.
Basically the same as JIC fittings.
There is also a very good equivalent that uses a face seal and o-ring but those tend to be a little harder to find and more expensive. The advantage is that clamping pressure is not much of a concern.
Jim
Jim. is the JIC type a "Just In Case " it leaks? :-) BTW, thanks for confirming I did not waste my time porting the remote and block adapters for my 5.0L Ford/MGB conversion. The casting was sorta rough and the smooth transitions obviously make a smoother flow of lubricant.
Oil hoses are inelegant. There must be a way to get rid of them altogether.
If this Ford Racing adapter won't clear the steering rack, isn't there some way to modify it?
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/XR9UTE/Rangie/DSC04817.jpg)
The Fords have a real problem with frame clearance in that area. Early conversions cut the frame for clearance, later a hose adapter was found that was thin enough to clear the frame by just enough to make it work without cutting but I doubt there is any sort of an available filter adapter that would fit. It would probably take something custom that positioned the filter longitudinally projecting forwards right on top of the frame. A one-off shouldn't be all that hard to fabricate, given the right equipment.
Jim
Ok, It seems I need 36 inch 10AN hose and straight 10AN fittings along with a 10AN to 1/2 NPT adapter fitting. I found the fittings but does anyone know of a domestic provider for a complete 36 inch hose with 10AN fittings? I find a lot from China but would prefer a US maker.
Any NAPA store can make those up on the spot. I use a local Parker store because they are close. There is bound to be a hydraulics shop not far away.
Jim
Thanks Jim! Another winter project for my list! :)
I wonder if the remote hoses from a gmc typhoon would work for you? It puts the filter up on the driver side wheelwell, up high. Just a thought.
I am about to tackle the same remote filter project for my Rover 3.5 and was wondering if there is any reason that the hoses Keith posted about couldn't be used with 1/2 inch NPSM swivel fittings to connect them to the filter base? I came across this http://mdmetric.com/4300/Pipe%20Swivels.pdf. Which seems to say on page 3 that NPSM swivel adaptors can be used to connect NPT fittings, and at $5 each they seem like they could be a pretty reasonable solution.
I was thinking of using a Derale 25752 filter base with 1/2 " NPT ports
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derale-25752-Standard-Series-Remote-Filter-Mount-Only-/400860820394
image.jpg
And then using something like this
http://www.grainger.com/product/EATON-AEROQUIP-Male-NPT-to-Female-NPSM-Swivel-WP57987/_/N-c70Z1z0mm8p?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/2F397_AS01?$smthumb$
image.jpg
To connect the preassembled hoses
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271526671100?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
image.jpg
image.jpg
Is there a reason why that wouldn't work and I should just go with the AN hose and fittings $$$ ?
Might work. No guarantee though, as it relies on the edge of the pipe nipple for sealing. But you could try it. And then if it doesn't work you could buy the parts that are going to work reliably if you want. Or you could look for another way to get it to work. If it doesn't seal properly all it's going to do is leak engine oil. Probably.
After as much custom work as I've done, I try to stay as far as I can away from things that "might work". The more of those you have, the more things you have that don't work. Simple numbers. But maybe I've become jaded.
Jim
I must be jaded as well Jim.
I got real tired of fixing "fixed stuff" years ago.
These days if you aren't going to take my advice you don't get a second chance to ask.
Cheers
Fred
"That should work", by someone that has never tried it.
Matt, what chassis are you putting your Rover engine into? Can you make an angled Buick V6 filter base work? No hoses or fittings to leak. Inexpensive. (One source.) (http://www.silver-seal.com/category/shop.engine_parts.timing_covers.1for_buick/)
With very modest hammering to form a shallow clearance pocket in the MGB frame, filters are now easy to change.
V6-filter-base.jpg
Here's another shot of what Curtis is alluding to:
Oldsoilpump1.jpg
I think what Graham posted is D&D's swivel mount. That's another option, but it's NOT what I used. I simply bought a later model Buick V6 oil pump from a Buick dealership's parts counter. (Mine doesn't swivel.). I included a link above....
Apologies for the misrepresentation, Curtis - the good news is that it now gives Keith a couple more alternatives.
The problem you see, is that for the difference in cost between doing it in a proven way that gives the best possible chance of complete reliability and serviceability, and a way that is more difficult to do, more difficult to service, and doesn't have the proven reliability is... maybe $40 max? (Possibly less than half that.) And you cut those corners on a vital system. If it fails it can take the engine with it. Well, that's your choice. But something I'd avoid. The better choice is definitely the AN/JIC adapters, with a good thread sealant (loctite) when they go in the pipe threads.
Now those NPT pipe swivels do work. I have used them. But To get them to seal the nut may have to be cranked down to where the flange it pulls against fails. Or the threads fail. (Tapered threads against straight threads in the nut.) Then a little vibration and it can start leaking. Given the choice I would go with the standard JIC fittings. They are reliable.
Jim
Thanks for the input guys. I picked up a stalled 78 MGB with a Rover 3.5 that I'm trying to finish up while my 4.6 project languishes in the planning stage. I was trying to avoid the remote filter if at all possible but D&D said they aren't making the swivel adaptor any more and I was advised by one of the MGB conversion experts that the Buick metric base that I have wont work and neither will the front facing Rover filter base.
When I realized I might have to use a remote filter I looked at many of the kits from Transdapt and others and realized that they all seem to use fittings that you install yourself like the one that failed in the original post. Thats what made me think that a solution using professionally manufactured components would be more reliable (and yes less expensive) than the solution that requires you to cut and install the hose end fittings yourself. My intention is not to cheap out on a critical engine component but in the 25 years I have worked on MG's I have never worked with AN fittings and very few NPT/hydraulic fittings so I welcome any input about which method would be more secure. I have never heard of JIC fittings before so it looks like I still have some more reading to do.
AN and JIC are basically the same.
Jim
Hey Matt,
Summit sells the 90' adapter that Curtis used. It should be able to clear most obstacles for you.
If not, the AN fittings and hoses are nothing to be afraid of.
They are actually pretty easy to use and are essentially goof proof.
Youtube is full of how to's on assembly.
The best piece of advice that I can give you is to lube the fitting generously before you assemble it to the hose.
It makes the assembly a breeze.
And make sure to flush the newly made hose before you use it. Even if you bought it ready made.
Sealing washers are available to seal fitting to fitting. But I've never had to use them. Every failure that I've seen was due to debris on the sealing surfaces.
Route your hoses carefully. Especially if they are steel braided. The braiding will damage just about anything that it touches and if two hoses rub each other they will destroy themselves remarkably fast.
Lastly give your hoses room to move. If restricted too tightly (hydraulic hoses in particular because they are so stiff) the lack of flex will cause fracturing and failure of your fittings.
Once you get the hang of AN style stuff you're going to want to use it a lot.
And why not! It looks nice, works good and lasts long.
And as my little grand daughter says " I did it all by myself"
Live like you mean it.
Fred