Since my recent hope for a clean body shell fell through recently, I wanted to check with the members here for suggestions on where to find B bodies/reasonably priced complete cars.
I have been looking on ebay, Hemmings, and occasionally in a pulp circular sold at convenience stores.
As I have said in other posts, I have a Buick 215 in good running condition (automatic, though), and I'm on the lookout for a body to transplant it into.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
May sound like a dumb question, but what's reasonably priced in your world? How much work do you want to do - are you looking to just do a swap with virtually no bodywork, or are you expecting to do some refreshing/restoration? I found my GT on the mg experience forum - trader section. Got it for $150 with an OD and a bunch of spares (dumb luck, but let me recoup some cost). That being said, it needed plenty of work - floors, paint stripping and no interior. For the effort (if not the dollars), I could have probably found a clean $5 or 6k runner and been a few months ahead of where I am now. But I can say that I know the condition of about every inch of it and no guilt for any mods I may do since it was more of a rescue from the crusher. For about 10k plus shipping you can have a brand new bmh shell (still another pile of cash needed for trimming it out).
good question.
I suppose everyone has an idea of what he/she is willing to spend, or is just bad at budgeting. I'm probably one of the latter, but I'm decent ballpark-wise. I suppose I'd like to spend no more than $10k. Being that I have the motor already, I'm hoping that this would be enough to get me into rolling shape, and perhaps I could update over winters with improvements to suspension/brakes/ignition, etc.
I have been looking at this for a couple of years, and am willing to pay the $3k to $5k, but I am reluctant to take a good, complete example and modify it. I suppose this is because I appreciate the purist's concern. A good/great stock vehicle is worth preserving for it's own sake.
For that reason, I was in no particular hurry, and willing to wait for a complete example with motor problems, or one without a motor where a conversion had lost steam.
Recently, I was looking at one of the latter for approximately $500, but that fell through. This was a steal, of course, but it served to stoke the fires of interest, so to speak.
Also, I am looking at potentially having some previously unscheduled time off. The time off from work is with the direct prospect of returning after a few months away, and would be unpaid. Since I have a decent bit of cash squirreled away, I was very interested in the prospect of doing a conversion of this type, that is both reasonable in cost, and a good occupation of my time.
I am not willing to undertake complete replacement of floors/fenders etc. Rust repair is sometimes necessary, but certainly not my passion or interest.
Thanks for the question. I'll look up mg experience.
There is no reason whatsoever not to convert a pristine car. There is no shortage yet and in many cases it could be put back as it was if desired. You are making it a better car in all respects and probably increasing it's value and demand. As for the purists, let them park THEIR car on a pedestal in the garage, these cars are made for driving. (rant off)
Plus, if it has a good driveline that can be sold to a ready market, recovering a good bit of the purchase cost and providing good replacement parts to the purists. So we *do* help them when we do a conversion. Plus, it is absolutely the most cost effective way to get a good finished car. Start with a good car, do quality work, end with a much better car. My $0.02
Jim
You're right. I just didn't want to waste a good car. I will try to do a neat job, but first time around is bound to be a learning experience, and the idea of mucking around with a car with a bearing knock is less of a concern (and probably cheaper too).
Jim, how much would you expect for a selling a running MG engine?
If you happen to get one with overdrive the transmission alone will bring well over a thousand dollars, and while I'm not any sort of an authority on the engine, if it's in good shape and looks good I'd guess anywhere from $500 to $1500. Others may have better numbers. Of course if it has a rod knock it's essentially a boat anchor.
So your driveline could be worth as much as $2500. That really does justify buying a car in good condition. As far as wasting a good car, just what are you planning to do to it that would cause such damage? A Rover engine is a bolt-in swap to a later style car.
Jim
There would be no damage, really. You are entirely correct that those who want to preserve what they don't themselves own are meddlesome wankers (to borrow some British English phraseology).
I suppose I just want to feel at the end I made a net positive difference -- the phrase "there's nowhere to go from here but up" captures it. But like you have said, there is a solid financial argument for parting out a complete example.
What I'd like to do if money were no object is to eventually install the custom rod works IRS and Fast Cars IFS, but some minilite wheel repros and do a chrome bumper conversion.
I think you could find a 3-4k car in solid shape - perhaps a little tired in the paint and mechanicals - minimal rust - but be careful with rockers/sills/dog leg panels. 5-7k should be a good driver. Above that you get cars that have been well cared for or refreshed. You can find deals, but usually they show up when you're not looking for them. Rubber bumper cars tend to be a little cheaper as well as a little easier to convert - esp. if you're doing the bopr conversion.
Tom wrote: "Rubber bumper cars tend to be a little cheaper as well as a little easier to convert..."
That's the conventional wisdom... but if you want to end up with chrome bumpers, then converting from rubber to chrome adds effort and expense, and it becomes a wash.
Finding a rubber bumper GT in North America isn't easy. (They only imported them for half a year or so.)
If I gave the impression that I am after a GT, that was incorrect. I'm after the coupe/roadster model.
There's something appealing about the GT, and if I came across a screaming deal for one, I'd have to think long and hard before turning it down.
In terms of what kind of damage to look for, I appreciate the tips. I've done rust repair before, and it's a pain in the ass. I think it's so much so that I usually do a pretty good job preventing against it.
I've been looking at the car rotisserie designs, and that would be an ideal way to strip/paint/coat the underside.
But I have to find a car first.
I'll let you know how that goes.
Matt, here's my experience based on the project I'm working on....
'76 MGB - "rust free" TX car (no signs of rust, rust repairs, or prior collision repairs), not running, but clean & garaged since last run -- $1450. Story was father-in-law gave it to owner; owner not mechanically inclined; drove it for about a year taking to shop for 2-3 minor repairs. After last repair filled the tank, drove home, wouldn't start the next morning... car sat for next several years.
Condition appeared consistent with that.
I drained the tank & filled with fresh fuel. Disconnected line @ carb & ran a couple of cups through the line to be sure it was clean. Re-connected line & tried to start -- took at most an hour to find the loose wire in the ignition system & the car fired right up. Drove it for fun & to "feel" if there was anything else wrong... basically in good shape; only thing I'd probably have done if it weren't for the project is rebuild the front suspension. Interior also needed updating as seats -- especially drivers were well warn & panels were also worn looking.
That should give you a feel for the condition of the car... Disassembled & sold off a bunch of stuff on eBay... engine, carb (weber downdraft), brake calipers, distributor, alternator, starter, back-up switch, mirrors, speedo angle drive, some gauges, etc., etc... probably 30-40 parts. After eBay & PayPal fees, I'd cleared $1385 (last time I calculated; a bit more since then) -- net essentially a free car in $$ terms, but lots of time -- hours & hours cleaning, photographing, listing, boxing, weighing, etc. I probably have another $1000 in parts I could sell, but for now I've chosen to hold off so I can spend the time on the project since I have most of what I need.
Note, my car is essentially an MG body shell w/just about everything else changed -- including seats, gauges, wiring, hydraulics, etc. so I probably had more to sell than most -- but, somewhere around $1200-1500 in parts if you have a good drivetrain is reasonable. And, $1500-2500 is reasonable for a non-running car with a good body shell IMO. If the interior &/or paint are in good shape, another $1k-2k could be fair. I lucked into mine, but posting "WANTED" ads in the local CraigsLists helped.
Hope that info helps.
If you were doing a 302 or an LS motor I would say don't worry about chrome or rubber bumpers. With the bopr motor the path has been travelled enough that there's a book on how to do it. The bumper conversion looks like a pain - with no good solution for the rear except a sebring valence. Chrome bumper cars take a few mods by the firewall. Of course you could leave the rubber bumpers and just drive it or convert to chrome later.
I did the bumper conversion on my '79 'shell. Sure it's a project but not insurmountable. I did mine with the intent of sticking to the original mounting brackets as much as possible. I've attached a couple of pics of the rear in detail and a link to the car itself. You have to know where to look to see it started life as a RB car.
http://www.britishv8.org/MG/SimonAustin.htm
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Matt: I have a '72 Roadster that was modified with a Camaro V6/5 Speed that I am considering selling. The motor/trans is out and the engine bay has been cleaned and repainted. My buddy and I are rewiring the car completely with the Masters kit, so all of the interior is disassembled. I am sitting on the fence as to whether to sell or rebuild. The car is a roller with all of the suspension/brakes, etc. either rebuilt or new. It has fender flares all around with fat wheels and tires. It comes with a tow bar and a Snugtop hardtop. If you are interested, I'd consider selling the motor/trans separately.
Bob
PM Sent.
Thanks for the offer Bob.
For the general board, I have figured out how to track Hemmings, ebay, AutoTrader and Craigslist via computer.
Hemmings and Craigslist allow you to monitor new ads via RSS reader. I already use Bloglines to follow various feeds.
ebay and AutoTrader will email you matches to saved searches.
Good info Matt. I am looking for another new toy that info could help with. Looking for a baby supercar (69-72 maserati indy, 77-81 merak ss or any year ferrari/dino 308 gt4) if you should happen across one.
Simon, did you fabricate the pods under the tail lights - it's a very nice cb conversion.
Tom, you can get the curved parts that go under the tail lights from MOSS, maybe the others too... or, post a note in classified here &/or MG Experience board -- if anyone is getting ready to send a shell to scrap, they'd probably cut those off & send them to you. That's how I got mine (although my contact was a guy parting out a B on eBay. I used the contact seller feature & just asked if he had the body shell & would be willing to cut those parts off for me).
Good score Rob. Good example of what goes into the CB conversion.
As some of you may know, I am looking for a shell to convert, and have a 1962 Skylark that's prepared to donate its motor.
I have a couple of possibilities to run by you:
1. A body shell, with dashboard only, $1,000 starting bid. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=320305702041
I think this is overpriced, being that it needs everything other than the dash. However, it's not completely undoable, if I were to go with the aftermarket front and rear suspension units from Fast Cars and Custmom Rod Works. Opinions on the cost to complete the car (tires to top) are welcome, and needed.
2. complete and highly-optioned GT. I would anticipate that this is going to sell for the full asking price of $12,000. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1973-MGBGT-SUPERCHARGED-WITH-OVERDRIVE_W0QQitemZ350102149804QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item350102149804&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
I am thinking that this would be a good candidate for resale of various parts, so that's not as bad as it might feel at first.
Between those two extremes;
3. A GT with fewer options and a more reasonable price, currently in the $2k range. I am sure that will go up markedly, but not to $12k. Interestingly, he offers to put you in touch with a buddy who does V8 conversions, and offers up a rover as a potential donor: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___MG-MGB_W0QQitemZ130257769453QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130257769453&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
My thoughts on this is that I like the owner's wordy listing, and the price is certainly more reasonable.
While I would prefer a roadster/convertible, the GTs appeal from the perspective that I can throw some kids in the back. While I don't expect them to be too happy there, it's a consideration.
Also, the roadsters certainly feel more used up or are priced stratosphereically. The rust conditions are certainly eye-opening.
As we've discussed, I can wait for a deal, but I would like to get something put together for the near future, when I believe I should have some time off work.
I wouldn't consider buying a $12,000 used car on eBay unless it was local enough that I could look at and test drive it first... besides, it's a GT and you said twice that you probably prefer a convertible.
Have you driven enough MGB's yet? If you haven't driven several of each style (convertible and GT), I'd strongly recommend that you try to set up some test drives with local sellers... even if they're rusty cars or the "wrong" years or whatever...
Yes, you technically could throw kids in the back of a GT... but I certainly wouldn't! It's neither safe nor comfortable for them back there. (Dogs maybe. My Labrador Retriever absolutely hated riding in my MGB, but my Golden Retriever is okay with it so long as he gets the passenger seat.) When I was a kid, and the world was young, nothing was finer than sitting on the back deck of dad's MGB roadster with my siblings as we drove around the block pretending we were in a parade.
This is a more-comfortable and probably marginally-safer seating arrangement:
DonWatson.JPG
(Don Watson and Family)
You're right, an eyes-on is certainly necessary.
Just to play devil's advocate, using the "sell it off and recoup some/all of the purchase price" model, the highly optioned car should be good for $4,500 with just two parts sold.
A Moss Supercharger is discontinued, but selling on EnglishParts.com for $3,229.95 -- so call it $3,000.
It also has overdrive. So, say $1,500. There are lots of assorted parts that come with the supercharger sale, so there's more aggravation than just unbolting an alternator or carb, but that's not bad for a used part.
Also, your comment about the GTs back seat puzzles me. The seat certainly looks uncomfortable, but I could make it legal with the installation of lap belts. The picture you posted, probably with a touch of humor that I may be missing -- that I can't see being legal under any circumstance.
Maybe you could clarify what I am probably missing. Is the back seat that bad that you wouldn't put someone else's kids back there?
It's been about twenty years since I actually had the back seat installed, but...
On my GT, I've got the two main seats bolted down solid (i.e. without adjusters) and the backs of the two seats are literally touching the bulkhead. I'm six foot two, and I need that much legroom to be comfortable driving. A small child could possibly sit sideways in the back seat area, with their feet up, but I don't see how they could ride with their feet/knees forward. A child that small really should have a purpose-built child safety seat anyway. So, all I'm really getting at is that a B convertible is as practical for hauling a third passenger as a GT is.
Kevin Richards' factory MGB GT V8...
(http://www.britishv8.org/MG/KevinRichards/KR-BattDisconnect.jpg)
Just bear in mind that what it looks like you should be able to get out of surplus used parts and what you do get are often vastly different things. For peace of mind it'd be better to halve the proceeds. That way if you do get more it's a bonus.
Jim
Jim,
That's excellent advice.
Thanks,
Matt
I'm interested in what people think about the shell-only option. How much would it cost to equip a car like that, from tires to top? I am guessing far more than I'd like, and that it would take a LOT of time.
I'm pretty much there - starting with a shell. I was starting a grassroots motorsports challenge car - blew the deadline and really liked the look of the car - so the plan b is a 5k budget (I reserve the right to double it). Started with a $150 shell - by dumb luck ended up with a spare, working 1800 engine and an od transmission. Selling off the engine and tranny paid for new body panels, a running 5.0 core, t5 tranny and an 8.8 rear end. Where the money starts flowing out is engine/trans rebuild, wiring, guages, fuel delivery, suspension wheels/tires (doing my own bodywork, but that will still probably cost $500 and the interior will be another grand)... Little stuff will bite you - lights, holders, trim pieces, controls... will add up to to a couple of thou before you know it if you have to buy it.
mg engine and od tranny were pretty easy to sell. Other parts I can barely give away unless I'm willing to hold on to them long enough for someone who needs them.
Start with the best/most complete donor you can find. Don't count on recouping a ton unless you can afford the time and space.
BlownMGB-V8 Wrote:
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> For peace of mind it'd be better to halve
> the proceeds. That way if you do get more it's a
> bonus.
>
> Jim
That's how my dad taught me... expect the worst. You either get what you expected or you're pleasantly surprised :)
I essentially parted out my car since most everything is new or replaced... I've cleared about $1400 in parts -- a few major items like short block, cylinder head, starter, alternator, etc. & lots of little things -- reverse switch, angle drive, a few gauges, brake calipers, etc.... the problem is it takes tons of time to take pictures, list on eBay, box & weigh for shipping estimates, etc. I've been keeping track of all the parts I've bought & I'm around triple Tim's budget... but I did go expensive on wheels, air conditioning, Ted's front end, IRS, etc. Could be done for way less without those & related expenses -- and if you have time to work trades with others. Don't forget hardware; if you start with a bare body shell you won't have a ton of bolts; that alone can ring up more than you might expect so if you're parting out, bag & tag that stuff; it can clean up nicely & be reused.