Folks, thanks in advance for any direction or assistance.
35 Years ago, the only car I never caught while driving my 64 Jaguar E=type, my wife and I were watching one of those Car Build shows on TV in our new home, During the show someone had a Tiger, I told my wife of the "race" I had with a Sunbeam that I thought was an Alpine but was as fast a Tiger and that I could not CATCH the thing ( I was 16). In any case my wife asked if I thought I could find THAT car, I told her it was VERY doubtful, two days later I drove by IT, the tarp blew off and there it was, 35 years later. Long story short, I just bought the car, and MYSTERY solved the car had a Ford 289 in it and a MUSTANG Auto Trans and REAR END, the car is rough and needs restoration, My plan is to rebuild the 289 and perhaps ungrade the Suspension FRONT and Rear. ANY direction suggestions are welcome. I was thinking maybe a CUTDOWN MAZDA MIATA Suspension or 280zx (the one with rear disk brakes). The present MUSTANG rearend has to go! the HUBS are dished and put on backwards to get the tires under the rear fenders, and I think the IDRS would be nice.. IDEAS? I NEED MY HEAD EXAMINED!
John, Welcome! Lots of info here and on SAOCA forum. Very popular to put a 2.8 Mustang II/Ranger V6 in the Alpine with Jose's kit. Newer DOHC fours also. 72-75 Mail Jeep and CJ5 4x4 rear is the right width. The MGB wire axle rear is the right width also. Both need to be changed to the Alpine bolt pattern which is the same as Pinto, Mustang II and Fox Mustang. 4x4.25. You can bolt in 68 Camaro front and rear shocks in the 64-67(series IV and V),Earlier 60-62(series1 and 2) 63(series 3) have noticeable tail fins. The Tiger was only 64-67. I have a 65 that I'm going to put a 260 V8 in like originally in the Tiger. 67 went to 289. Also Grant steering wheel adapter for mid 80's RX7 has same splines as Alpine.
John If I were you I would also turf the automatic transmission. Sportscars and standard transmissions go together.
What year of Alpine is it?
I owned a 62 at one time but since then I have gone to the dark side and now own a TR6. I still think that it would be neat to build a Tiger clone.
Now get on to it and post lots of pictures.
Cheers
Byron
Thanks for the notes folks, The Auto has got to go. I HAVE to put in a rear end as well as the car has a early MUSTANG WIDE rear end.. The Transmission cavity will have to be redone as it was multiple flat sheets tacked together, and the steering is the original ALPINE and welded bent sections to get it under the 289.. It's a 67 btw.. My idea I am thinking on is an IRS an an updated front end, what are the thoughts on the 289 ? It's out for a rebuild and has a MASSIVE 4 BRL Holey Carb, I thought of selling all that stuff and finding a Fuel Injected 289? My little Frankenstein car is a bit off from the start..... Thanks in advance..
JohnS
John going with a newer Ford small block with EFI may present some problems. The EFI setup is great but I think it is kind of tall and you may end up having to go with a hood scoop or blister. If you have the money rebuild the 289 and check out the bolt on fuel injection systems that are out there. These systems are quite good now and are self tuning. This way you could keep the engine looking like it has a carb and the thing will fit under the hood.
I would skip the IRS and go with a coil over with either a three link or four link set up, this setup will be a lot less head ache and will work quite well.
On the front end I would ask Jim Nichols (MGB260) on how he is doing his front end, he has some real good ideas on the easiest route to getting a front end with the right Ackerman and the least amount of bump steer.
You have many options the trick is to pick the easiest and most economical route to get this thing on the road without costing a small fortune and burning yourself out.
Cheers
Byron
coil over with either a three link or four link set up, this setup will be a lot less head ache and will work quite well.
Thanks for the Advice. I agree. Something I can afford and something simple (that works) is the way to go.. The COIL OVER with three or four Link... is there a KIT? something from a DONOR Car? or is the something that you guys fabricate? Thanks for the info!
johnS
John, Byron is right on. The 289 is fine. You don't need a big carb 500-600cfm is fine. Junk yard GT40 heads out of 90's Explorers are better than any of the old stuff. I'm putting a Weiand Action Plus (Street Warrior) intake on mine as it's the lowest height. Mustang T5 with S10 tailshaft to put the shifter in the right place. I actually like the leaf spring rear. You can do bolt on Traction Master bars like the Tiger or more modern Cal-Trac style. On the 67, the early ones have the same single bar grille as the 64-66,later had the eggcrate grille. Front suspension can be modified like the Tiger but improved. There are expensive aftermarket alternatives. I do plan a new Mustang II streetrod style IFS, but I'm probably going to rebuild and modify the stock one first and then copy everything over. You can also narrow the 7.5 Ranger rear axle pretty easily. Then you can use Ranger front hubs for 5 lugs all the way around. I'm even going to flare the fenders for 7" rims in front and 8" in back. You can look at Bill Guzman's Classic Conversions 4 bar for the MGB. You may be able to modify it to fit.
Send a PM to Robbie (socorob) as I remember that he converted his Alpine to a 4 link setup, I am sure he will be willing to give you some information. Here is the link to the thread
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?7,23057
Cheers
Byron
Thanks, looks like the 4 link is a highly modify straight axle, my problem is I don't have an ALPINE Axle, i thought if I have to scout a replacement for the MUSTANG straight shaft I might as well go all out and do the IDRS... I will PM Robbie as you suggested...
Thank you..
JohnS
John, The Jeep axle I referenced earlier is the right width. The Tiger used a Dana 44 also. The MGB wire wheel axle(you would use solid wheels)is the right width and plenty strong. The lug pattern has to be changed. The IRS is pretty complicated in the narrow confined space of an Alpine. There is a guy that has a BMW IRS in a Tiger on this board,he also has a You Tube video series on his build. His name is Peter Glenk. A couple more forums:
http://teae.org/forum/index.php
http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2&order=desc
http://irsforum.boardhost.com/
John, 4 bar info:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/triangulated-4-link-question-help.642930/
Thank you all for all the INFO.. I will educate myself on the 4 Link.. Maybe the way to go, I just thought the IDRS would be a REAL nice upgrad to the straight axle, though the NARROW Sunbeam could be an issue. I thought of some FENDER FLARES to allow a few more inches for the IDRS. I went to my local Engine guy today, he says 800 to 900 to build the 289 with a bit of head work and a cam. Seems pretty reasonable, and I know him to be honest and capable. He mentioned that I should think about a newer model V6 and Transmission combo, that they are lighter and produce more power than the the 289 would. He also said the AUTO transmission would be a lot easier to deal with, I think the Manual is a MUST, but I gotta say his slant on the V6 makes a lot of sense.
Jose's kit for the 2.8 Ford V6 is popular with the Mustang T5 and Ranger 4 speed auto. That said, to me there is nothing like a Ford V8 in a Sunbeam. I am going to make a little more room in my firewall cut out. I will probably use the 26x16 Griffith radiator that Mike used in his TR7. I have the same Speedway Motors block hugger headers too.
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?3,42415,page=1
My 260 V8:
Picture002.jpg
Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger with flares. Bottom one is VW Rabbit flares like used on MGB:
gtNga8wY.jpg
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Wheels available, Vision Torque 143 6 offset 15x7 and 0 offset 15x8, and knockoff center caps:
15x7vision.jpg
T2eC16NHJGwFFZOo0c9YBSCp172i8Q60_57.jpg
John, I don't know if you have seen Bill's car or not. He has the triangulated 4 bar rear and just did coilovers in front.
http://www.britishv8.org/Other/BillAshby.htm
Thanks for all the INFO. I think I have decided to just go with the straight axle with the 4 point... My question is, aren't the DANA 44 Axles that were used on the JEEPS geared for low speed and high torque? Aren't they too heavy and slow for a little Muscle car? I would like to have 4 wheel Disks, is there something out of a DONAR car I should look for?
Thanks in Advance!
JohnS
John, Actually, The 72-75 Jeep Dana 44 is most commonly 3.73. Some mail Jeeps were 3.08. You can also find 3.31 and 3.54 in the larger Wagoneer housings. They are stronger than the original 2 piece Tiger axles. They are 30 spline, flanged one piece axles and commonly Posi too. The 70-71 Commando is rarer but almost a perfect fit. The MGB Wire wheel axle is plenty strong and is 3.91 ratio stock. There are 3.07 and 3.31 after market gears available. Glenn Towery has Stainless Steel thrust washers to replace the stock Fiber and copper ones. Do a search here and on Mgexperience on narrowing the 83-92 Ford Ranger 7.5 and 8.8 rear by shortening one side and using another short axle. 3.45 most common ratio, also 3.08 and 3.73. Posi's and Mustang disk brakes work with them. Those are the best options for rear axles. Here's a link to a thread on rack and pinion front suspension and Ranger front rotor/hubs.
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?14,41178
Some Tiger and Cobra guys are using the early Mazda Miata rack. The MGB rack will work too, with MGB steering arms. There is tech info on one of the Tiger forum links.
Narrowed Ford 8" rear axle works well also.
Thanks for the INFO, I believe it has a FORD 8" in it right now, NOT NARROWED. How difficult is it to cut it down? Right now I am scouting a rear end, and trying to decide if I want to rebuild the 289 or put in a 302 or 351W, Does anyone know if they are the same size? Bolt Pattern? I believe the 302 is but maybe not the 351W...
Thanks for all the info.
JohnS
The 8" pinion yoke is offset so you end up with one short and one long axle. There are inexpensive long spline axles that can easily be cut to the right length. What costs is cutting the tubes accurately and rewelding the ends. There are disk brake kits for that axle also. The longer stroke 351 is about 1 1/2" taller and wider. The 289/302 is a tight fit. If the 289 has the old style 5 bolt bellhousing(smaller) it would fit easier than the newer 6 bolt(larger) bellhousing in a stock Tiger tunnel. All of that would be cut away anyway in a Alpine conversion. More like a square box coming out of the firewall with the tunnel after that. If you look in the gallery at the Sunbeam Tiger pictures you will see how far the engine is set back. You need to insulate for engine heat also.
Hi All
I'm building a Tiger clone restomod based on a 67 alpine. So far I've fabricated the new firewall, trans tunnel for mustang t5, fabbed exhaust pass thru x 2, modified the cross member alba Tiger to position a Mustang 2 steering rack, planning on adapting Wilwood 2 inch drop spindles and ford discs and callipers
Found Tiger headers, engine mounts and I'm using Dan Walters Torque arm to control the Jeep DJ5 rear axle. Looking for any clues on adapting Disc brakes to the DJ5 (Dana 3.73 LSD). The VW flares look great! Any idea where I can find them in Steel?
Hi Bill, Those flares are steel. Junkyard, off early VW Rabbit fenders. How did you like the Cobra type wheels? You can adapt the 2000 Ford Contour SVT rear disk brake to the Dana 44 with a custom caliper bracket. Checkout this link for cheap VW rabbit fender wheel arch patch panels at $27 each, you would need 2 LH and 2 RH:
http://www.rustrepair.com/RABBIT.75.HTM
A Big Thank you Jim, I had been digging around the web without luck...you've saved me more frustration !
Yes, I love the wheels!!
Help Folks, I have racheted my plans down to something reasonable (I HOPE). I have found a 63 Sunbeam and a 67 MBG rear end to replace the 60s mustand axle that I have that is NOT shortened and has 5 lugs. My question is. Is the MGB rear end the same? The sunbeam one is a solid 6 hour drive ONE WAY and the MGB is right next door. My concern is that they may not be able to take the 289 or 302 that I stick in it. If someone that knows would give me some direction, I would really appreciate it! THANKS!
JohnS
John, The Alpine rear would never live behind a V8. The 67 and newer MGB rear will. It was used when they put a Rover V8 in the MGB. It actually is a delivery truck rear originally. There are quite a few MGB V8's running around with the stock axle. It is 3.91 ratio and works good with the 2.95 first gear T5. There is a anti-clunk mod that replaces the side gear and pinion washers. The wire wheel version is about the same width as the original Sunbeam axle. The bolt pattern on the hub is 4 x 4.5 so you would have to use an adapter or redrill the hub between to the Sunbeam pattern of 4 x 4.25. The wire heel hub would also need the center spindle machined off. The leaf spring is 1 3/4" wide on the MGB axle instead of 2" like the Sunbeam. The spacing of the axle spring brackets would have to be the same as the Sunbeam also.
Thanks for the swift reply, I was thinking today about it all and wondering if I am not going about it all wrong, it HAS a Mustang rearend (5 Lug) that is a bit wider than the original and the Front end, it also has a bit of a scary steering gear arangement, cut bent and welded to get around the 289, sooooo what do you guys think of me Keeping the existing rear end and replacing the frankenstein front end with say a Mustang II front end, I either have to fix BOTH or the Front end, I started thinking maybe I make the Front Track match or exceed the existing rear end. Would save a lot of time. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance...
JohnS
John, The Mustang rear and 5 lugs are fine but, the idea of the flares are to get wider tires with stock length axle. You would have to narrow the Mustang rear. The Sunbeam stock axle is about 50" wide and the Mustang is about 56". Are you sure it is an 8" (no rear cover) or a 7.5 or 8.8 newer Mustang rear(bolt on rear cover)? You can use MGB steering arms and rack and pinion on the Alpine crossmember similar to what the Tiger did. Here is another thread with a picture and Ford Ranger 5 lug hub/rotor.
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?14,41178
I will crawl under and see, but it was put in in the Mid 70s and reportedly (from the previous owner) is from the Mustang that the 289 came from along with the Auto Transmission. It has 5 Lugs and the wheels are put up Dished in to get them in the wheel well. I put a tape measure on it and believe it to be a 56" Track width (center of tire). I'm thinking why shorten it? I couldn't widen the front end to sometjhing equal or maybe 1" wider? opposed to replacing the rearend that is in it? Not trying to be obtuse but would you illuminate the drawbacks? Thanks for all the INFO!
JohnS
John, You can use adapters in front that widen the track like the rear. 2" thick, two piece that go from 4x4.25(108) to 5x4.5. Then you would need positive 41mm offset wheels(FWD)like these to bring the tires back in. Wouldn't look too bad, painted silver with knockoff center caps. 205-50-15 tires. Still would have to trim the fender lip and bottom of front valance. You would still need to go to rack and pinion steering. Read all those other threads for more ideas.
http://prowheeladapters.com/wheel-adapters-wheel-spacers/4-lug-to-5-lug-wheel-adapters/4x108-to-5x114-3-2-wheel-adapter.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-X6-Pacer-Black-FWD-MOD-83B-Black-5x4-25-5x4-5-41-ET-83B-5614-Single-Rim-/310853855917?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item4860556aad&vxp=mtr
Thank you for all the info! Here are some Pics, perhaps the Restoration/Rebuilt will not be so bad, maybe something I can actually get done! I spoke with a guy at a Transmission Place, He said 1 K for a T5 Manual rebuilt and he could install it for that..Doesn't sound too bad, he suggested I sell the 289 and opt for a 302 with the 4Brl Holley I have, reasoning is the 289 is desirable for the restoration market and I'm not restoring this to factory so the 302 maybe a better buy for me. Sounds reasonable. What do you guys think? Here are some Pics as well. Thanks in advance for the opinions and/or direction.. Any Help in Identifying the Rear End and what perhaps my options are would be greatly appreciatted!
johnS
Here is the Front End.. and the Only End I got to see for over 35 Years..
SunbeamFront3.JPG
RearEnd7.JPG
John, Definitely an 8" rear. Those rear wheels look kind of scary. On the front of the differential there may be a tag saying the ratio and if limited slip. 2.7something was common with the automatics. the Tiger had 2.88 rear. You may be lucky and have the 3.0,3.25 or 3.50. Show us some more pictures. I'd like to see the engine compartment. Body looks pretty straight. Factory hardtop too. Not much difference between the 289 and 302 value wise. There are millions of each out there. When they started calling it a 5.0 in the late 80's they lightened the block up considerably. Even so, they still take 700 HP before the block splits in the valley. I personally like the older motors.
The rear wheels are really scary! The front end is too! The original Alpine steering gear is there, and someone cut and bent the offside steering arm and welded it back. It is due for an upgrade, so I guess I am headed toward thinking of a donor Mustand 2 and cutting it down, the engine well is pretty unchanged, the Transmission tunnel is FRANKENSTEIN. I will be cutting that out and replacing it with something a little more appropriate, with the engine, I didn't think of the Transmission as being that much larger.. I know I can get a T5 for 1000. I'll send some more pics.
Thanks for the info
Mustang II won't fit, You just need to pull the crossmember and adapt the MGB steering arms and rack. Chuck on the SAOAC forum has went to the Mustang II spindles on his cars with the stock crossmember. There are two aftermarket solutions, though expensive. I have a few ideas on a custom front suspension but plan on modifying the stock one first to use as a template for dimensions. Dale's Restoration has one. Here is a picture showing stock compared to Toysjunkie front suspension.
New20Comparison20Top205.jpg
Tiger with RHD Miata Power rack
miatapowersteeringontiger.jpg
Article on MGB steering arms and Midget rack, MGB RB would be better for rack,not as twitchy or hard to steer. The longer arms eliminate the bend in tie rods also.
http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickAckerman/pt-PaulickAckerman1.asp
A better idea for transmission tunnel on the Grassroots Challenge car and stock Tiger tunnel grafted on
DSCI0041.jpg
attachment8ET3RNEG.jpg
John to give an idea on what the steel wheels can look like. David Townsend at Plan B can reproduce the Dunlop decals.
469991-1000-0.jpg
http://planbillustration.com/
I like those Wheels! I can't afford the expensive aftermarket front end. Perhaps I will go the MGB route, I have a guy that has a 67 MGB as a possible source for the rear end and I could pull the front end for parts, maybe that is how I should go. Thanks again for the direction and the posts. I am a bit overwhelmed.lol
JohnS
I have found a 60s MGB no engine and body rusted, the owner is willing to part it out, so I am planning on buying the rearend, steering gear and anything else I might use, maybe the pedal assembly and master cylinder would be good, any ideas? The only down side is, it is set up with wire wheels, I guess even if it wasn't I would need to replace the hub to match the sunbeam. I will look around the forums, someone else must have already been down this road....
Thanks for all the info folks
JohnS
John, It has to be the 67 and newer rear with rear cover. The earlier banjo type where the diff pulls out the front like the 8"Ford won't be strong enough. The wire wheel axle is the one you want. Right width and the hubs can be machined and redrilled to Alpine pattern. For the steering all you need is the rack and both steering arms(they unbolt). Usually when putting a V8 in a Alpine they bolt up the brake master where the clutch master was. For the clutch they cut out the section where the brake master was and move it over for the clutch. Check out my threads on the 2000 Contour SVT rotor. The 7/8" 280Z master would be about right for disks in front and drum rear. 78 Dodge Challenger master for 4 wheel discs. Nissan V6 twin piston front calipers. PM me for more info.
Thanks again for all the info.. I will make sure it is a 67 or later, and get the R&P steering gear. I think since I will be redoing the hub I may as well go for the 4 wheel disk brakes.
Hey I really like the look of that Dunlop Steel Knock off, and the MG rear end I am looking at putting in my Sunbeam is set up for WireWheels, I was wondering if I shouldn't keep the Splines and convert the Front to MG Splines and just buy MG Wheels. Thanks in advance for your collective thoughts and opinions.
John, Real Dunlop wheels are rare and special. I was just showing you what you could do with steel wheels. Kind of retro look. The Alpine stock wire wheel is same as MG Midget splined wire wheel hub. It would be easy to convert the front to MGB as the inside bearing is the same as MGB. Outer bearing needs a sleeve for smaller Alpine race. Knock off solid wheels are usually 8 spoke Minilite style and very expensive. I would convert the rear hubs to Alpine bolt pattern and just get the solid wheels and fake knockoffs. Have you seen the 15 x 7 Mustang Turbine wheels in the other thread? They are Alpine bolt pattern. The steel wheels I showed earlier are FWD positive offset for wider Mustang rear width and adapter to widen front. You have lots of options to chose from, but you have to chose one.
+
Thanks.. Trying to figure out my route before I commit to a rearend and start pulling the the little thumper apart! I did some looking around, you are right of course, the true Steel wheel Knock Offs are expensive but the stamped steel wheels are fairly cheap(hate the thought of a fake knock off, but oh well). I'll go get the MG rear end and plan on converting to the Sunbeam hub. That should prove easy enough and solve several of my problems. The problem is there is so much to be done to the car, I could really go in ANY direction. Thanks for the help. JohnS
John, just cut the splined part off after the taper. Use a 2000 Ford Contour SVT rear rotor. May have to turn the hub down a little for rotor to slip on. Use a 7/16" transfer punch to mark the new lug holes between the existing hub holes. Drill with 3/8" then 1/2". Contour studs are the same front and back, so get 16 for all four wheels. Pull them in with a lug nut and stack of washers.They are modern 12mm studs. Use whatever lug nuts your wheels need. Contour SVT front rotors are vented 10.95 slip on for front. Nissan V6 twin piston calipers for the late 80's and 90's Nissan V6 Pickup/Pathfinder 10.9 rotor are perfect for front calipers. You will have to make caliper mounting brackets from templates,posterboard then plywood then steel(if under 3/8") or T6 aluminum(if over 7/16"). I use adapter fittings 10mm to Speedway Motors 3AN SS braided flexline then to 3/8" IF. You need 1 for each caliper and 1 for above the rear axle. 7/8" master from 78-82 Dodge Challenger 4 wheel disk brake with VW remote reservoir and blue hoses.
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I found a 1986 Mustang with what I believe to be a Summit Racing 4.10 Pos I was told it was a 9 inch but maybe an 8.8, looks like I can shorten it fairly easy. Also has 4 pretty nice wheels (4 Lug) which solves some more of my problems. Rear end is Coil Over and Drums. Question if you guys have time, is there a draw back to the 8.8?
This car has a 302W with 44,000 miles on it, set up for FI but I figure I will get a GT40 Manifold and put my 4 BRL Holley. I can get the whole enchilada for less than I will scrap the remainder of the car for, less my mileage and effort.
mustangRE.jpg
John, If it has 4.10, it is way low for the T5. Probably 2.9 to 3.2 if stock ring and pinion.
That is an 8.8 not a 9"
Ford 9" differentials are drop out type without a rear cover.
I would pull the cover and check out what you have including gear ratio. If you have one hub held can you turn the other one?
I am not sure if it is, the owner says so, just not sure he knows, it had a T5 and a 302W.. Curious, I will check tommorow though.. I guess I could always put some other gearing in it, if it isn't appropriate, I still think this is a pretty good deal at $600 bucks. Thanks for all the input! I need it. At least I am headed in one direction now.
Looks like Jim Nichols is right.
T5/T45 (manual transmission)3.55/ 2000 RPM's 3.73/2250 RPM's or 4.10/2350 RPM's for 65MPH..
John, That's with .68 fifth gear. multiply first 3.35 x rear ratio. Ideally should be 11 to 12. I looked up the 86 8.8 and stock ratio's were 3.08,3.27 and 3.55 with the T5. If the guy said it was a 9", I highly doubt he put a 4.10 in. That rear has the Alpine pattern already. You could use a spacer in front and the FWD offset steel wheels without narrowing. Maybe roll the fender lip or use flares. Ford Focus had 14" and 15" steel wheels with the Alpine 4 x 4.25 pattern.
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I bought the Donor car. The Seller said the guy that owned the car claimed a 4.10 BUT his father ( the guy that put it in) said no it wasn't a 4.10, but a 3.73 with PosiTraction. I got a fairly decent looking 5.0 Ltr with EFI with the deal and I will pull the EFI off (sell) and go with my 4 BRL Holley I got with the Sunbeam. I also started cutting the Transmisssion Tunnel out, since my little Frankenstein has a scary looking tunnel.. I'm pulling everything else that is worth selling or using and will either take to the scrap yard or just sell as scrap metal.
The rear end isn't coil over, but is coil spring, so I'm thinking converting to coil over. thoughts??
Thanks for the info!
John, Here you go :
http://www.welderseries.com/blog/online-store/four-link-kit-rear-8-8-ford/
http://www.welderseries.com/blog/online-store/rear-crossmember-kit/
Ok, that is cool! The present undercarraige looks similar.... I'm wondering if those arms will just replace the FORD linkages? What do you guys think? Would you shorten the rear end or buy the wheels that Jim Nichols showed? I have some really decent looking wheels, and I do plan on putting wheel well flares. Thoughts...
Thanks!
JohnS
John, the control arms are longer than stock Mustang to be universal and trim to fit. Most triangular 4 bar setups use the front spring bracket for the front lower mount. You still need to do the MGB rack and pinion and do the Tiger firewall to set motor back. Then the shifter will be too far back with the Mustang tailhousing. Use a S-10 tailhousing. I'm going to use a universal (Speedway Motors) tubular mount (picture is on Buick motor)for the engine to bolt to the old Alpine frame steering mount locations and copy the Tiger transmission mount. Speedway motors also have reasonably priced small diameter drivelines in multiple lengths. To determine length slide front yoke all the way in and pull out 1". Measure Ujoint to Ujoint for length needed. The stock Alpine/Tiger rear axle width is 51",almost identical to MGB wire wheel width. Your Mustang axle is around 60" wide (wider than the early 8" which is 56") so needs to be narrowed. The Alpine rear is a little too narrow stock as there is clearance issues with frame and spring. If I was you I would call Moser and order axles 26" long for 53" width wheel to wheel mounting. Are your mags factory or aftermarket?
Link to 4 bar instructions
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26254738/Instructions/318500IN.pdf
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DSC00712_zps7773cffb.jpg
Here they are, 1985 Mustang (FoxBody) wheels, they're ok.. If I can find something else better I will...
1985FoxbodyMag.jpg
John, those wheels look good. Even better without the Ford hubcaps.
I will HAVE to find some center caps without the FORD! Either that or use the Wheels you suggested. I should have the rear end out this weekend, the steering gear will not work from the Mustang? I will start looking around for a MG Steering gear
Kevin, sorry, not sure about turning the wheels, I haven't had it up on the Jack. You are correct of course, it is an 8.8 not a 9 inch. I should have it off this weekend, I will give it a try, it's supposedly a PosiTrac, we'll see...
Coil overs, I spoke with a HOT ROD Shop. He says $500 TO Narrow my rearend.. He said I should have bought a Ranger Rear end.. Oh well. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew the length of Coil overs I should get? Should I measure from the AXLE UP? Is that how you figure their length ? I guess it sounds like a stupid question.
Thanks in advance for the direction.
JohnS
Got the Mustang rearend out, I am told that none of the mounting brackets will work with the Sunbeam and I should have bought a Ford Ranger rearend (oh well at least I got a PosiTrac, an Engine, and 4 Wheels for my $600 bucks) perhaps I haven't wasted too much time and money. I have found an MGA steering gear on EBAY and will check to see if it's equivalent to the MGB. Here are some new Pics of the Car, Notice the steering gear, kinda scary but it worked, I think the R&P will be a big improvement. I also cut out the Transmission tunnel from the Mustang, perhaps it will save a little sheet metal work, but maybe not. We'll see.
I will take the remainder of the car to the scrape yard, it's a shame the steernig gear will not fit.
TrannyTunnel150.jpg
Got the Mustang rearend out, I am told that none of the mounting brackets will work with the Sunbeam and I should have bought a Ford Ranger rearend (oh well at least I got a PosiTrac, an Engine, and 4 Wheels for my $600 bucks) perhaps I haven't wasted too much time and money. I have found an MGA steering gear on EBAY and will check to see if it's equivalent to the MGB. Here are some new Pics of the Car, Notice the steering gear, kinda scary but it worked, I think the R&P will be a big improvement. I also cut out the Transmission tunnel from the Mustang, perhaps it will save a little sheet metal work, but maybe not. We'll see.
I will take the remainder of the car to the scrape yard, it's a shame the steering gear will not fit.
TrannyTunnel150.jpg
some more pics
EngineWell50.jpg
Oilcooler50.jpg
Frontend50.jpg
John, Probably not enough room for the big cast ears on top. You could cut them off and weld top brackets on the axle tubes. You have the same wheel bolt pattern with that axle. The 83-92 ranger short side axle on each side would be perfect width but 5 lug. Coil over shock travel; the stock rear shocks interchange with 68 Camaro. About 18" extended and 12" compressed. You can't use the top stock mounts with a coil over. You would weld a piece of round or square tubing across the frame rails like in the link at Welder series. QA1 has a inexpensive non adjustable coil over that is 15" extended and 9" compressed for the 6" travel. I would recommend 250lb 10" springs, set mounted length about 12.5". For the firewall I'm making a box about 1' deep before the tunnel for more room. Motor mounts bolt on where the Alpine steering gear was. MGA rack may be adapted but I know the MGB one works,
TrannyTunnel150.jpg
Thanks. I found a B steering gear, no reason modifying something I don't have to! It was suggested that I get ajustable Coil Overs in case I wanted to race (which I would eventually). I'm not to upset about my rearend, though I guess I have some grinding to do!.. I think the $500 is a little steep, just to narrow it, but that is him doing all the work, The speed shop says $500 to narrow, $500 for decent Coilovers and $1000 to put it under the car with a 4 link, which sounds reasonable when you add it all up like that, but alas I can't afford THAT! So I will be scouting the alternatives, Thanks for again sending me in the correct direction.
JohnS
John, I'll be using the existing leaf springs and bolt on Tractionmaster type traction bars. I posted a picture of the firewall mod above. You will need the MGB bolt on steering arms also.
John, I'm not all that familiar with your project so should give no advice but I've dealt with a lot of narrowed rear ends and would suggest, unless your using two stock short side axles, adding the cost of axles to your planning. Axles and bearings can easily cost $500.
Paul
The Jeep Dana 44 prior to about 2004-5 has the same lug pattern as the early Mustang-
5 on 4 1/2 inches. The Dana 44 was widely used for many applications, and there are a
lot of gear ratios available for this rear end, as well as many types of limited slip, ranging
from lockers to the Torsen diff.