We started work on the TR7 this weekend at Jim's shop.
lsmotor.jpg
This it the LS400 engine I was planning to use.
w58.jpg
Along with this transmission
Here is the subframe after we removed the TR7 engine and transmission, and pressure washed it.
subframe.jpg
Lots of bits in the background in buckets and on the floors. Looks like some strut work is needed.
Man, that 4 cammer looks WIDE! I wish I was there to help, but you two are thankful I'm not. Good progress my friend.
Dan, that motor does look very wide and the plenum looks very high too but hard to tell without some reference point. The oil filter seems to hang out there a mile as well. Might take TWO shoehorns for this one.
Phil
Phil, you would be amazed at the room inside the TR7 engine compartment. The Aussies who have done this swap tell us they installed the engine by lifting it in from the bottom, the same way the engines were factory installed on the TT7 and TR8 and looking at the frame rails I see no reason to think it won't work just that way, The measurements look right. I believe it will go in with the exhaust manifolds attached, and a full compliment of accessories including low mounted A/C, alternator, and possibly even a P/S pump. We have two oil filter mounts but that is the least of our worries. We're told the stock double bump hood will clear just fine. The fresh air plenum however may be a different matter. We will see about that.
By all accounts this is a considerably easier swap than the Rover V8 and makes for a much nicer daily driver. Mounts should be quite easy and the only serious challenge seems to be the choice of radiator.
Jim
It looks like you have it figured out Jim. Dan should be a nice ride when done. I've ridden in Dan's TR7, he graciously chauffered me around during either the Raleigh or Indy v8 met.
take care,
Phil
Phil, you can understand the need to do this! We struggled to keep up in Indy.
Here is a link to my inspiration: http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/RodneyWells.htm
Looks like it will be a fun ride Dan!
Dan,
Looks great! Looking forward to following your progress.
Are you planning on taking it to Colorado next year? :-)
Maybe.
Dan, looks like a great combo. some specs on engine please? HP, Torque and PRM Band? Probably has a Hemi type combustion chamber? Should be a pleasure to drive. What R/E ratio and type of diff. do you plan?
See you in Townsend in Oct?
Standard engine puts out about 250HP and 260 lb/ft. It is based on a CART/IRL engine design. 3.44 in bore, 3.25 in stroke. 6 bolt mains. I think the SC engine has bigger injectors and puts out a little more than the LS. I read that someplace.
Fot the time being the stock 3.45 differential is being used. I might go to higher gears or upgrade the axle at some point.
I won't be making Townsend this fall. Too much stuff going on that weekend.
That should be a nice runner when finished. What transmission is that?
Do you have width and height measurements on the Lexus V8?
I've wondered if a Ford 4.6L DOHC engine would fit but have never
measured the engine bay.
Thanks,
Dan Jones
Dan, here are the measurements. I found this on Lextreme.com I think, but saved it some time ago. I had to convert it to jpg to post here. If it is not readable for you let me know and I will email you the original I saved. I think it is a pdf.
The transmission is a W58
1uzmeasurements.jpg
Thanks Dan, I was able to read it. It appears the LS400 engine is approximately 24" tall x 26" wide.
The covers are off as is the upper intake plenum so it's likely a bit larget than that. The Ford
Racing catalog lists the 4.6L DOHC V8 at 30" wide x 29 7/8" tall x 28" deep. It's not clear which
4.6L DOHC that is but it's probably a Mustang engine. I think the Lincoln Mk VIII had the lowest
intake manifold. I know the 1998 Cobra 4.6L intake is taller than the Mk VIII. The new Ford Mustang
5.0L 4V TI-VCT engine is more compact at 28" wide x 27" tall x 26" deep.
It appears there's a chance a Ford 4.6L DOHC engine will fit. Mk VIII engines are all aluminum
and quite inexpensive these days. The one I have in the '63 TBird project is rated at 290 HP
while the 1998 Cobra 4.6L was rated at 305 HP (later versions were 320 HP for the normally aspirated
ones). I may have to do a fit check when I've got the TR8 engine out.
The 5.0L DOHC engines are considerably nicer making over 400 HP but are thin on the ground at
the moment.
Dan Jones
Dan B, Cool swap! Is that an adapter I see between the bellhousing and tranny? Are you using Toyota truck flywheel and clutch set?
Jim, he has a nifty little 16 lb steel flywheel, I bet you it isn't more than 3/8" thick anywhere. We weighed it on my postal scale. Then he has a 6 puck clutch disc with sintered pads and what looks like a pretty heavily sprung hub. I'm not sure what the pressure plate is. But the guy was building a drift car so I'd guess it'll do the trick.
Jim
Jim, sounds like a cool setup! I think Dan will be very happy with the performance. The W58 is one of the best, smoothest shifting 5 speeds. I was researching the swap out of curiosity and it seems very popular. There are kits and a couple DIY's on the web.
QuoteBy all accounts this is a considerably easier swap than the Rover V8
Really, why?
That comment may have been slightly exaggerated, Carl. Rodney Wells says he had done several Rover engine swaps before he did the 1UZ but he is much happier with the Toyota engine/transmission.
He should be. You will be, too. It's an awesome engine/tranny combo.
What W58? I found a 1986.5 Toyota Supra MK3 for $250.
That may be what I have, I'm really not sure. The adapter and the 1uz bellhousing are the expensive parts, and the guy I got the engine and trans from had already gotten all that together as well as the flywheel, clutch and htob to build a drift car with a Nissan 240SX, He decided to go with a 350 instead
Carl, Dan has the 86.5 and newer. The shifter is a little further back than the 83-85.
pb29006311_83a9.jpg
Thanks, Jim. I just ran across it, Wasn't sure if I should snatch it up. Hmm, maybe for my MG TF?
Carl, They are one of the smoothest shifting 5 speeds out there. About the same strength as the T5. Of course that is with a new nylon ball socket and aftermarket shifter. What engine are you going to run? There are some Jeep and Dakota AX5 bellhousings that will bolt up the AMC 4 or GM small V6. Or Novack has a small block Chevy adapter.
In my TF? May still go with a TD 1250 that I have. The original TF 1500 is long gone.
If you look under drivetrain issues you will see that I am attempting to fit a 4.6 dohc modular engine in an MGB and have had a trial fitting without exhaust headers and it will fit. Whether I will manage to get headers to fit in the tight space that is left is another matter!
The engine weighs 440 lbs (200kg) it is 235/8 inches long 28 inches wide and 28 inches high. I have mated it to a T5 gearbox using a 302 bellousing with the dowel holes drilled out to 16mm. My engine is a new 1999 Cobra with 320 bhp.
The mk VIII engine is the same dimensions except it is only 24 inches high.
I also looked at fitting the lexus engine but decided it was just too wide at the sump and with cheap modular engines in the UK decided to give it a try.
Here is a pic of the motor mounts we will be using.
motormounts.jpg
Hmm, those look like an improvement over what we use in the BV8 conversions. Wonder if they are close enough to work.
They are Rover mounts.
New radiator just arrived yesterday. Tentative plans for next work weekend at Jim's is Oct.12-14. I get Columbus Day as a holiday.
summitradiator.jpg
I think that will work OK. Let's check with Steve (and Carl). We can do a little work on the race car too.
Jim
Poly Subframe bush set from Woody.
polysubframebushset.jpg
The poly subframe bushes came from Woody yesterday.
polysubframebushset.jpg
What's left, strut parts and maybe some exhaust couplers?
Jim
Dan B posting here. I wrote this post on Jim's computer and he was already logged in.
It has been an intense weekend working on the TR7 so far. I have pictures to post, but am writing this from Jim's laptop so I will need to put those up later. Immense thanks to Jim for all his hard work and expertise. He fabricated awesome engine mounts to allow for a clean shot for the steering shaft. Also thanks to Carl for coming up on Saturday and lending a "calibrated eye"
The australians said this engine looks like it grew there, and they are right! I think a Toyota engineer must have used a TR7 for a mule or something. The oil sump fits right in the recess in the subframe and there is a depression in the front of the pan to clear the steering rack. The plenum exactly fits in the stock TR7 hood bulge.
Today we are going to modify the tranny crossmember to accept a Supra transmission mount, then put the car in the barn until the next trip.
'
Dan is headed home, might as well add my two cents in. The fit of this engine in this car is nothing short of amazing. The only thing more you could possibly wish for is a little more clearance for the hood latch and maybe some more room for the fan, but those are pretty minor concerns as the TR7 uses two pusher fans normally.
Now to recap, this is the 1UZ out of a Lexus 400SC (or Soarer). Other Lexi are equipped differently and will not fit as easily.
So the stock tubular exhausts work just fine. In fact there is just about 5/8" between the frame rail and the end of the closest stud on each side where the down pipes bolt on. The shifter is about 1/2" back from the front edge of the stock hole and has a rearward bend so the knob sits in about the same place. The pan just clears the rear of the subframe. The block just clears the firewall and the A/C lines. the pan sits (in this install) about 1/2" above the steering rack so the mounts can sag better than 1/4" and still have plenty of clearance. And the hood closes on it with probably about 1/2" clearance all around, at least that's what it looked like at the points where we checked it with clay, though we will look at it again later. There is interference with the stock plastic elbow that comes out of the throttle body and turns forward, and we softened the top of it with a heat gun and pressed it down with the hood. Not a satisfactory solution yet, but it could be used and possibly gotten to look OK but an aluminum 90* bend and tube might be better. There appears to be room enough for the radiator (2" aluminum Griffith from Summit) and a slimline fan of some type, we will know more when the radiator is in.
We did space the sub frame down 1" in accordance with accepted practice, using hockey pucks for spacers and these will be fitted with spacer tubes as well. This does not change the ride height and is reputed to improve anti-dive characteristics. Costs about $20 for pucks and long bolts. We used the stock passenger side block mount for the engine mounts and adapted the Rover engine mount to it by making a custom nut. Rectangular and square tubing was welded to the subframe to complete the mount. On the driver's side due to the steering shaft we duplicated the Lexus block mount in steel, relocating the stud hole outboard and forward. It may be possible to switch sides with the mounts and get it to work but we didn't try that.
Basically, this engine in the TR7 looks like it grew there. I think Dan is going to be very happy with the end result, and I think a lot of people will be surprised to see it. I don't know what he will end up doing with the OEM stuff on top of the engine but as it sits now the average person looking under the hood *might* notice the Lexus logo but other than that would just think they were looking at any other late model car.
Jim
Here is a shot of the custom nut made to attach Rover motor mounts to the 1UZ
IMG_0925.jpg
IMG_0926.jpg
The SC400 engine getting ready to move into position on Saturday night. We spent the day prepping the subframe and working on motor mounts.
IMG_0927.jpg
Next step, position the engine under the car
IMG_0928.jpg
IMG_0929.jpg
IMG_0930.jpg
IMG_0931.jpg
Ready to lower the car. I videoed a little of the car going down, but had to put the camera down to help
IMG_0932.jpg
Here we see the car after it has been lowered onto the subframe. We bolted up the subframe with spacers, tied the tail of the transmission up, and lifted it all back up in the air on Jim's lift. It sure is great to have a brother with such cool tools.
IMG_0934.jpg
IMG_0935.jpg
Here is what it looked like when before fine tuning positioning. The hood closed flush.
IMG_0937.jpg
IMG_0938.jpg
IMG_0939.jpg
IMG_0940.jpg
First positioning of the shifter. It ended up closer to the front of the hole.
IMG_0942.jpg
Notice how nicely everything fits!
IMG_0943.jpg
IMG_0944.jpg
IMG_0945.jpg
Unmodified TR7 subframe, except we cut the motor mount off the top. The 1UZ sump just fits.
IMG_0947.jpg
The start of the right side motor mount fabrication
IMG_0949.jpg
The engine is blocked to the proper height and clearance for oil filter, steering rack
IMG_0950.jpg
and header flanges:
IMG_0952.jpg
IMG_0953.jpg
That's going to be awesome! Can't wait to see it.
Jim shows off his crazy-mad fabrication skills:
IMG_0958.jpg
IMG_0959.jpg
IMG_0963.jpg
Drivers side motor mount from the rear on the last post. Here it is from the front.
IMG_0964.jpg
We used a stock Supra mount for the transmission and Jim modified the TR7 crossmember.
IMG_0967.jpg
IMG_0968.jpg
IMG_0969.jpg
Engine and transmission are bolted in, ready to go to the barn until next time.
IMG_0970.jpg
IMG_0971.jpg
I just wanted to reiterate that the engine slid in from the bottom with ZERO mods to the engine bay, firewall, or tunnel. You know the saying, "It went right in like it belonged there." Well, it really did.
Also, that motor mount nut pic does not do justice to the ingenious solution. The motor mount stud was not long enough to protrude through the thick aluminum bracket. Several ideas were kicked around. Then, Jim enlarged the hole in the aluminum, took an oversized allen cap screw, lopped off the threads at the smooth shank, gun drilled it to the cap and tapped threads inside. Solved. Next.
Dan has a brother with cool tools that knows how to use them!
Dan, did you remember to close up the air intake before putting the Triumph in the shed?
Really cool project! Anxious to see it.
Yes, we put a mailing tube cap in it and tape over the water inlet/outlets.
These guys give away too much credit. They both had ideas and suggestions that made this thing go so smoothly and my first approach on that mount stud was a complete failure until they helped figure it out. I do wish we had a shot of that nut from the top though, it's a pretty cool piece. I think maybe Dan came up with the idea of using a bolt and Carl had the idea to go to the 5/8" size and in the end it really worked great. But regardless of who did what, we really worked well together.
I think at this point we have somewhere around 60 to 80 hours max in on the car (I probably should have documented the time but when it's your brother's car why would you?), times 3 guys both weekends for probably something around 175 to 200 man hours counting errands over two long weekends. And I'm thinking that's not too shabby going from the stock TR7 to this point on a first attempt. Considering we also managed to get a little work done on the Chump car while we were at it of course was a plus.
Jim
Good work guys!
Great work.
You really are going to have to give some thought into the front brakes though. The stock TR7/8 brakes are marginal, about the right size for a Mini (the original ones), not something putting out that kind of horespower.
Also, you may want to take a peek at the rear trailing arm, body mounts. They are a real weak point on these cars. The bodies rust out there and the arm mounting holes are usually oval'd. I did a fair bit of bracing and welding to stiffen up all of that area when I did my conversion to V8.
Enjoy!
Martin
Hey Dan it looks like you're having a ball I just have a couple questions how much horsepower does a motor like that make and what kind of rearend do you put behind it
The stock SC400 engine is supposed to put out 265 hp. I am going with the stock 3.45 Triumph rear end at least for now
I do plan to upgrade the brakes at some point. I did find out, however, that the stock brakes were vastly improved when I installed Hawk pads. I went from having lots of fade in the mountains to none. Jim & Ken drove it on the dragon last year and the brakes did fine. Thanks for the tip on the rear suspension too!
Always been considering a Rover 4.0 or 4.6 for my TR7 but I'm pretty sure its out the window now! Great work and many thanks for posting your progress! Any work lately? :)
Thanks!
Gerry C
80 TR7
80 TR7 shell & boxes O parts
No, Gerry, the TR7 is at Jim's shop in Florence, Ky, which is about 200 miles from me, so I have to plan weekends to work on it when I can schedule the time.It also gives me time to save up $$ and collect parts in the downtime. It is stored in a barn on his property in the interim.
Bumping my thread... no new work yet, but we have scheduled to work on it the weekend of May 16-18. Jim is also planning to tinker on the chump car that weekend and rumor has it he may be able to fire up his 340.....
Dan wanted to invite anyone who would like to come but did not want to be presumptuous. No problem, y'all are hereby invited. (Now we get to see if anyone other than the regulars show up, he, he. Betcha not.)
I had my calendar messed up, but Steve comes in on Thursday afternoon. We plan a trip to the Pick-n-pull, most likely Friday, to get an S-10 engine and bellhousing and if I can find it, a Mitsubishi 4G53 for the forklift. Hear that Dan? If you want to pull a Mu-tang axle you might want to be here for that.
Jim
Progress on the conversion this weekend. We dropped the engine and transmission back out of the car and reinforced the engine mounts Jim designed and built last time. Steve Degroat and i cut reinforcing pieces and Jim welded them. Then I painted it and we put the engine back on the cradle. We unbolted the transmission to install the flywheel, clutch, htob, etc. We had to chase parts all over Florence, but finally found the pilot bearing we needed. Advance Auto Parts ordered it Saturday afternoon and we got it yesterday morning.
If you use a W-58 transmission, be sure to install the bearing flush with the pilot hole in the crankshaft. The input shaft is kind of short.
Also, beware of adapters made by a company called Subversive. The aluminum adapter that I got with the transmission did not allow the pilot shaft to line up. Luckily, I was at the right place! Jim used his MAD SKILLS at machining , chucked the transmission into his lathe and adapted the adapter to work with the transmission and bell housing.
On Saturday, we went to the pull-a-part and got parts to install the transmission on the MG chump car. Steve and Dave (Jim's older son) spent some time lightening the race car, then we put the engine and transmission in place with no mounts.
IMG_1530.jpg
IMG_1509.jpg
IMG_1534.jpg
I'm confused.
If the pilot shaft didn't line up, I'd expect the bolt holes to be off. How does putting it into the lathe fix that? I can see skimming material off the outside or even the face, but I don't see how it can be used to adjust the alignment.
Pls elaborate.
M.
The hole in the bell was indexed and found to be centered. An offset was cut on the adapter plate using the lathe. The offset was 1/8" and fit into the hole in the bell, creating alignment. From there, only one bolt would line up with the original holes, and we put it in tight and re-drilled all the other holes. Most were about a half hole off one way or another. We went to 1/2" bolt with nuts (what Jim had on hand).
Ya gotta admire the external cubicle thinking!
"Jim just chucked the transmission in his lathe" and machined it to center.
Now that's something you don't see every day.
I like it!
Cheers
Fred
Ok, I'll bite, what rpm did the transmission, "shift" at ??
It never did shift, since it was locked in to the chuck, but those helicoils were rough on the tooling.
I think maybe we upshifted the lathe to 94 rpm at one point?
We did have to shift the old bolt holes in that adapter plate, about 1/4" to 1/2" in all different directions.
Jim and I have plans to work on my TR7 project some more on the weekend of August 8th. Anyone interested is welcome to come and help with it, and also work on the v6 MGB chump car.
Steve got to Jim's on Thursday I think. I got there Friday evening and they had been making progress on the chump car. We continued on it Friday night, as Jim designed and fabricated engine mounts, with help and encouragement from Steve and me.
On Saturday, after a pick-n-pull run for drive shafts and to look at electric fans, we put the TR7 on the lift and spent the day working on the front of the engine, removing the guts from the hydraulic fan pump, replacing idlers, etc to finally install the serpentine belt. The universal radiator like the one in the Roadmaster required a little modification. I should have taken pictures of that. Jim removed the filler and welded that hole up, but added a port to connect the stock TR7 surge tank. The radiator and AC condenser are going to be moved forward a few inches to accommodate a Caravan fan. Original TR7 electric fans are not going to be used.
At the junkyard I got a drive shaft from a Tacoma I think. Jim cut it to length and I will be taking it to a drive shaft shop to get the correct mounting flange for the TR7 differential.
Steve and I bled the brakes, so I didn't run it into the wall when we coasted it into the barn. The last couple of weekends we worked on it, the handbrake was slightly insufficient to stop it from bumping the wall in the barn that Edith is letting me keep it in temporarily. No damage, but they love to give me grief about it. Ha Ha!
Thinking about Labor Day weekend as a possible date for another work weekend. Jim is checking his calendar.
No can do Labor Day weekend. Will be celebrating Piper's 14th birthday at the lake.
Labor Day is a no go. Calendar conflicts prevail.
I am planning to go to Jim's place this coming weekend and work on the car again. I am planning to stay until Tuesday (Veteran's Day) and maybe get the engine running. We need to install the radiator and the drive shaft, finish plumbing the HTOB, then work on wiring. There is work to be done on the chump car too
Fun weekend at Jim's place with Steve DeGroat, Carl Floyd, Jim and his boys Dave and Matt, and me working on the MG chump car and my 1UZ conversion.
Good progress made and a lot of fun hanging out.
We finished the installation of the Summit aluminum radiator that Jim modified last summer, along with the Caravan fan.
IMG_1897.jpg
Original TR7 radiator mounts were utilized for the fan on the top. A custom bracket you cannot see holds the radiator with a high density plastic piece in the upper channel. There are rubber donuts on the TR7 mounts atop the fan.
IMG_1898.jpg
Bottom view shows the lower radiator mount in place. This is the original TR7 radiator mount, modified with the same plastic in the radiator channel and tabs welded on to hold the bottom of the fan. The entire assembly was moved forward a few inches. Since the frame channels curve and narrow, the the bracket ends were cut off and offset pieces were welded in. There is still plenty of clearance, as you can see in the pictures.
IMG_1899.jpg
IMG_1902.jpg
After discussing options, I decided to use Megasquirt to control the engine functions, so we stripped the engine down. The SC400 throttle body has two throttles...I don't know why. I have another with only one throttle and we plan to use it.
Here is a view of the bracket during the test fitting, before it was modified. It was held in place by some long bolts at this point, You can see the white plastic through the hole. The fan was taped in place.
IMG_1889.jpg
We also fitted the drive shaft. It is a modified Toyota Tacoma drive shaft The drive shaft shop in Nitro, WV put the fitting on that was supposed to fit the TR7 axle, but the holes had to be re-drilled.. You can see the really cool transmission mount Jim made previously.
IMG_1890.jpg
In this picture, Jim is tacking the radiator bracket. We took it off for welding.
IMG_1891.jpg
And of course we had to keep up with BritishV8.
IMG_1893.jpg
Here is the other throttle body:
IMG_1906.jpg
This engine has a water pipe that runs through the valley under the intake and hooks into a heater hose. Both heater hose connections on the 1uz were sticking straight up, in the way of the bonnet latch and the fresh air vent. We moved them. We cut the pipe before the bend up, and the other nipple was on an aluminum manifold. Jim cut it off and modified it to go straight to the connection.
IMG_1903.jpg
Good work! Guys. Dan, the Caravan fan looks good!
It really does. It is hard to show it in the pictures, but the radiator setup is awesome. Jim and Carl did some brainstorming and came up with the mounting ideas.
Dan,
Looking great!! I can't wait to see your car!
We kicked around some ideas, but that magic belongs to the proprietor of Blackwood Labs.
It may look like it in the pic, but I guarantee I was not watching Jim weld with my helmet up. I only had a helmet cause he asked me to tack something while he held it. No flash burn for me. :)
Those guys are too modest, all I did was turn their ideas into metal.
I do think the install can be made to look remarkably clean though, as well as fully functional. Some tricky work remains with the cowl scoop for fresh cabin air, but Jim Stuart gave me some good ideas with the way he did his cowl for his injected RoverV8 TR7. Basically he split it in the middle and installed the halves separately. I think that can work here as well. The heater hose routing is simple and direct, but we will need to plumb in a heater valve there too. There looks to be just enough room to make the stock hood latch work by trimming it a quarter inch or so. I don't know how we are going to do the wiring yet but the MS harness will help, and splicing into the OEM connectors with adhesive butt connectors is the smart solution, provided we can find enough of them that haven't gotten brittle. The radiator hoses worked out remarkably well and the stock surge tank will control coolant level.
So far except for some fairly easy fabrication that anybody with an angle grinder and a mig welder could handle, this has been a simple and problem free swap. Provided your transmission adapter is right of course. I would recommend it for the TR7, I think it is the right engine for the car.
Jim
Dan, any progress? You'd be amazed how many times I check the site to see if you'd updated your post! :)
Gerry
Hi Gerry,
We are working on a date for another weekend. Possibly May 2. I have been collecting parts, including the connector and wiring for the megasquirt controller, a hose for the clutch, fluids, clamps, etc. I got the two starters I have tested and they are both good. They are both remanufactured, so we will use the Toyota reman. I have been pretty anxious to get back to it, but Jim has been so covered up with other projects we have not been able to work out a weekend to get together.
When we finalize plans for our next work weekend, I will post that on this thread. I and sure you would be welcome to stay at Jim's if you would like to make the trip and check it out.
Dan,
Sounds like fun and I really wish I could drive down there and check it out! Spent 10 years in the Navy and a lot of that in Norfolk, VA. Drove interstate 64 many a time traveling home on leave. West Virginia was the most scenic part of the drive! I've got a long list of projects myself! Mostly remodeling the 115 year old house we live in plus a 7 and 10 year old daughters keeping me busy. My TR7 needs paint! I have a friend from our local club thats been letting me use his place and spray gun. I asked him about buying a spray gun and he said why, I have one right here! Great people British car owners!
I plan to be in Florence, KY tomorrow, Sunday and most of Monday. We hope to make good progress on the TR7. Steve is probably there already working on the Chump car
Good to hear Dan! What are the odds of it making Indy? Any chance at all?
Depends on how it goes this weekend. Hopeful.
DansTR7LexusV8.JPG
Progress made yesterday. We have all the coolant connections made. Jim welded up several holes in the intake plenum that we decided we did not need.
After sorting wiring in the valley, we installed the intake. Bled the clutch. Sorted some wires.
Had to pull the radiator again to trim around the hose connections.
image.jpg
Not much action to see. We were cutting up two old harnesses and evaluating the wiring situation. Here you can see wires that have been pulled and labeled. I ordered the connectors and relays we need.
Also, the MS is mounted using a slick plastic slide-in mount we created and the harness is routed to the engine. We have to match the MS leads to the Lexus ones and make the required configuration changes, meaning we need to know more about the Lexus electrical complonents.
Jim
No dice for indy for this one either. I just don't have free time to get to Florence before the meet.
We finally got schedules together and were able to have another work weekend at Jim's place. I missed the one in August, so no work was done on the TR7 then, but we got some time in on it Saturday and Sunday. Wiring up the 1uz with megasquirt began. A fuse box and relays were mounted inside the engine bay, the injector were wired using canniballized pigtails from two 1uz harnesses. I had bought injector plugs and adapters (just in case) and neither would fit! We spent a good bit of time and effort tracing stuff and figuring out connections. Now I have a new list of things to get ready for the next time.
Hey Dan!
Glad to see you making some progress! What's left to do? You have to be getting fairly close?
Making progress, Scott. True to form, Jim has provided the car with several nifty customized parts. Nothing like his B, but cool nonetheless. He made up ends for the battery cables using copper tubing on Saturday, and a stainless steel mount for the fuse box. We could possibly get it to run on my next visit. Many loose ends though.
We decided to go with wasted spark using the Ford EDIS 8 setup with two coil packs. This required customizing a trigger wheel and replacing the 12 tooth wheel so we can utilize the stock pickup. Toyota makes a 36-2 trigger for a Tundra motor, so I bought a new one of those. This past weekend, Jim welded two teeth back on to make a 36 tooth wheel. The pickup is 50 degrees from TDC, so the tooth in that position was removed. I will post pictures of that this evening. We also made custom mounts for the Ford coils. It was hard to find a suitable location. Carl, Steve and I tried several positions. I want to keep the battery up front so I have trunk space but considered changing that idea, but finally decided on a location opposite the throttle body. Since wires from each four pack have to go to both sides of the 1uz this makes the cable runs for spark plug wires as short as they can be. Custom spark plug wires will have to be made regardless.
You might want to do similar to my battery relocation, if you are going with a single exhaust pipe system. I built a recessed box into the lower right corner of the rear trunk and got a small, hi-capacity battery to fit. It's flush with the regular trunk floor and works fine. Here is the only pic I could find at the moment, from part way through the build back on 2012.
P1000426-1200.jpg
As can be seen, the box extends to the frame rail. The bottom follows the lower curve of the body panel, so I made a small sub-frame to match with a level top for the battery to sit on. I added a drain hole at the lowest portion of the box and sprayed the inside with a rubberized coating, just in case anything leaks. :)
Unfortunately, this is not a solution if you plan to go with dual exhaust pipes, as the box takes up the space. where the muffler would be.
Regards,
Martin
I mentioned your solution to Jim while we were kicking ideas around. I remember seeing it and did think it was pretty cool. I do plan to go with a single exhaust too, but here is what we came up with on the coil packs:
edismount.jpg
More pics
4-23.jpg
A shot from the mezzanine in Jim's shop.
triggerwheelafterweld.jpg
Modification of the 36-2 wheel by adding 2 teeth
triggerwheelafterweld2.jpg
A tooth needs cut off to make a 36-1
triggerwheelafterweld3.jpg
36-1.jpg
You're like a magician or something Dan!
The way that reluctor transformed in your hand is awesome! :-)
Cheers
Fred
Actually, that is Jim's hand. You know what a magician he is!
Yes sir I do.
An idea for mating that engine and sub to the Wedge.
I had this idea along with a friend Darrell who beat me to the purchase punch.
It's available at most of the usual places.
It's a hydraulic table that raises to 36"
That way you can drop the body and raise the engine. Easy to get under and stay on top of it
ItsOut.jpg
A table like that would be handy!
I have my trans on it at the moment so that I can sit and work on it at my preferred height
Can't help but wonder about your progress! Hope all is well. I did come across a page with a Jeep or 2 that got this engine in a transplant.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a29362/jeep-wrangler-yj-lexus-v8/
Pretty crazy! Still have that extra engine?
Gerry
Progress is good. Last weekend Dan and I completed most of the wiring on the conversion so as it now stands there are still a few sensors to hook up, temp and such, and the exhaust pipes, then it is ready for pre-startup checks. We will schedule that for a weekend when we can get together with the Chump car crew since they all helped and will probably want to be there.
A few items, the IAC is a 6 wire connection but is a fairly standard 4 lead stepper motor with two power leads. The odd looking solenoid on the water pump is a hydraulic valve and is not needed, TPS is standard 3 wire. We went with the EDIS ignition which is pretty easy to do but it would be helpful to find a set of plug wires that are well suited to that use. The plug boots go way down a hole and of course the coil boots are unique. I'd post a photo but the car is back under wraps in the barn.
Jim
Yeah, we should have taken some pictures last weekend. I thought about that too late. But with wiring you don't really notice much in wide shots. I used the Lexus wires that came with the engine and put the Ford EDIS plugs for the coil towers on them. Where we mounted the coils it caused the length of the wires to not exactly work out as I would have hoped, so a future upgrade will be getting a better job on the wires. On the other side of that, the injector plugs that Steve and Carl wired up for me using the junk harness parts got upgraded with new injector connectors. Jim did that while I was doing the plug wires. He wired up the EDIS controller while I was hooking up the IAC and TPS.
Which extra engine are you talking about? I do have the Lexus LS400 engine, but we have robbed a few parts. If you were talking about the TR7 engine, I have a spare one of those in my parts car with about 30k on it. Allegedly it is frozen up.
Thanks for the update! Oh, your spare engine is out of a LS400. I remember somewhere that you picked up a second 1uz and it had a even better leak down test. Thought it was in this thread but I don't see it. I'm not sure the difference in the two models but I remember the SC400 was the one to get. I'm not serious about starting a conversion anytime soon. I just don't have the time at the moment. (stupid house!) And I have a spare TR7 engine myself, anyone want it?
Gerry
Yes, the second engine is the SC400 engine. I was trying to get the rear sump pan and ended up buying the engine. You are correct, it had a much better leak down test, so we used it. The LS400 engine is sitting in my garage with the sump off, valve covers off, front covers off, but most of it is there. On the TR7 forum there are folks who have modified rover pans, used ford pans, etc. but the SC400 pan fits perfectly!
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
Jim and I are making progress
IMG_3953.jpg
We completed the list of wiring, with only a couple of exceptions. The Megasquirt was modified to control EDIS and IAC, but needs the firmware updated. We squirted some gas into the intake in hopes to get it to fire in "limp mode" but it didn't hit.
IMG_3952.jpg
Progress.
Looking good Dan!!
The wiring is done. (Finally!) The controller needs flashed and installed, then we should be ready for final checks and startup next time Dan can come for a visit. Do a little tuning, and he can take it home to have the exhaust installed.
He and I did the last couple of weekends unassisted because for wiring it's hard for more than two people to coordinate working on it and distractions have to be minimized, but now with that part finished if the regular crew wants to be here for the start-up it's just a matter of coordinating the weekend, and I'm sure we can find things to do on the Chump Car, though it may have to be after Townsend, we'll see.
Cranking it sounded good, and we used chain-saw gas which should be good for the rings. Dan also installed a shifter kit in the transmission, and he's looking for a speedo cable adapter. He needs a pair of A/C compressor fitting adapters and will be able then to charge the A/C system. After that it's shake-down and tuning.
Jim
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7aIwIGjkxMg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Outstanding Dan!!!
We had a plumbing error and were not getting fuel. In the process of replumbing, the pump fell and broke. The car is running on gas from a squirt bottle
Sounds Good. Sorry about the pump! Maybe you need a good hands man like me.
You working for State Farm now?
Plans are to work on the TR7 this weekend and bring it back to WV on Sunday. Then I can take it to a local muffler shop here and get exhaust put on it. Jim says it runs, so we need to do a little tuning. Also the HTOB needs a seal kit, so the tranny will have to come out this weekend.
Looking forward to it, Dan!
Getting close my friend! Which will be quicker....your TR7V8 or my TR6V8?
You have a liter on me, plus the TR6 is probably lighter.....
Dan, do you think we're going to see it running at the meet? 😊
Well thank you Dan, I did lose a little weight.
You are going to have a very sweet ride!
Scott, I plan to have it ready by June. I am bringing it home from Jim's on Sunday, so I will have it here, so unless I break something between now and then it should be good to go.
Looking forward to seeing it Dan! Take some video this weekend!
Congrats Dan. That's probably the most fun time of a conversion... We'll, maybe 2nd most... just behind driving it the 1st few times!
https://youtu.be/9AjGSA8Qa6w
Dan, Congrats!
Congratulations Dan!!!
Here is a video highlight of the weekend. Thanks to Carl for shooting most of it on his phone.
https://youtu.be/23FfZX_K9TY
That's an excellent video clip Dan. But then I guess it would be considering whodunnit. So... pipes and mufflers, and there's little doubt it'll be at the meet in Lewisburg. OK, I'm envious....
Jim
One of the tricks we needed was a pedal stop for the clutch. When fully depressed the clutch re-engaged and would not allow Dan to shift it into gear. But a test drive showed that it would fully disengage halfway down. We welded a fabricated nut plate to the back of the clutch arm (done in the car) and added a 3/8" carriage bolt and lock nut to stop the pedal halfway down and all was good.
We also found a new failure mode for the HTOB. (Which was in fact just fine. We did install the new seals anyway.) Because the feed line had not been pulled all the way out of the bellhousing it had a loop and got up against the pressure plate. So once the engine had been started it stripped the braided sheath and holed the liner. Found a stray hose in spares and fixed that easily enough.
What Dan's video doesn't show, is that this car is going to be FUN! Dan, Carl and I all drove it down the driveway and back. We all got silly with it. I'll be sweeping gravel off my driveway for a week! Dan sat on the hill and tried to use up his aged, hard, and way too small rear tires all in one go. Luckily the rubber was so old that it mostly left powder which the rain has washed away but there's still a mark that will be there for awhile.
The initial tune was surprisingly close and he can drive it like that with no problem. There is a little work to do to enable the radiator fan control and get the IAC going, and the warmup is too rich, but he should have no problem driving it down to the muffler shop. After that? Well Dan, just watch that right foot until you get some real tires under it.
Jim
Pretty cool guys.
Let the fun begin!
Just wanted to say that this project was a blast to be a small part of & to watch Jim work his magic.
Now Dan's TR7/8 has a proper engine!
Derick, a 24 year old member of WVBCC, fixed my heat pump, then got a ride in my TR7. He shot video with his phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZd5pCsrpjc
Sweet!
What are the two items sticking out of the dash, below the radio?
tr7_x.jpg
That is just a 2 fer for the cigarette plug.
One issue I have been dealing with is control for the electric fans. We installed Volvo relays for the caravan fan. Originally those were connected to the Megasquirt controller which Jim modified to be used that way. We enabled the ports in TunerStudio and set the parameters for the fans and Voila!, they worked as expected. This was on a weekend in late April.
Not being ones to leave well enough alone, we looked at each other and said, "I wonder if we can get Megasquirt to drive the tach...."
So, we proceeded to do the mods to the board required in the mega manual for that. Plugged the controller in and nothing worked. After spending 4 or 5 hours messing around with it, turning ports on and off, plugging, unplugging, etc., we tried turning all the ports off and going back to the restore point in the software and got the car running.
So, being frustrated, I said, "hey, it already has a temperature switch, I can just use that." So I wired in the original 1uz temp switch and sure enough, when the car warmed up the fans came on. Great solution, I say. NO.. because they do not turn off with the ignition. They turn off when the sensor cools down or the battery gets below 11.5 volts (not enough to start the car). So since then many have seen me pop the hood and unplug the fan wire.
Last night I enabled the external ports on the megasquirt. The car will still start and run, so it has not blown up the controller program like it did before, at least not yet. I have not changed the wiring back yet, but it looks promising.
Being that I am running the Boxster Fans on my Wedge I am curios why the fans don't work being controlled by the MS. I'm intriqued as I plad on using it to control the 2 fans in my set up
It's because all that electrical stuff runs on smoke and magic. Since we didn't let out any smoke, clearly we somehow managed to cross up the spellwork. I have no clue how, everything was fine until we hooked up the tach. But then I'm no magician, how would I know?
But hey, that's great news Dan. Next thing is to hook one of the MS output wires back up to one of the Volvo relay inputs and see if the car will still start. If it does, I bet the MS will turn the fan on and off too! Then you can hook up the second one.
Jim
You might want to put a diode into the relay input Dan.
Those Volvo relays are big enough to send a substantial voltage spike back to the MS.
Possibly gave it a serious "headache".
Thanks for the tip, Fred. Will do.
Could already be installed on the board on the spare output circuits, might be worth checking. Called a flyback diode, it is there to prevent the counter-emf spike from reaching the controller. Usually done one of two ways, either:
Directly inline, passes normal energization current but blocks reverse currents or,
zener to ground, conducts high voltage spikes away from the circuit.
Wouldn't hurt anything to add one inline even if the controller already has one.
Jim
Apparently I didn't reset the controller when I tried it last night because today the car wouldn't start. I went back and disabled each port one by one with no success until the last one was off. Here is the error message I got each time.
IMG_5119.jpg
Ouch. Here we go again...
I don't know how to fix that.
Jim
What ports are you using for ignition and fan control Dan?
I think the issue may be with the WLED and ALED outputs, since the message refers to spark output. I am not sure how this got crossed up, because we had it working before we tried screwing with the tach signal.
PT6 and PT7 are the ports we are trying to use if I remember correctly, and Jim performed the modification to the board recommended by DIY. I bought the kit from them.
From DIY Autotune:
"Programmable On/Off Outputs
There are several ports available for on/off outputs. These supply ground to a relay, and may be used to activate cooling fans, variable intake solenoids, and other basic devices that are just on or off. Which outputs to use depends on your plans. WLED and ALED also function as spark outputs, so if you need spark outputs C and D, these are already taken. The MS2/Extra 3.x code can also use PT6 and PT7 for sequential injection output. Plan which outputs you use accordingly.
The IAC, WLED, and ALED outputs can all drive relays directly through FET transistors on the MicroSquirt Module. Simply connect these headers to the appropriate pins on the adapter board.
The other outputs (PT6, PT7, and PA0) require a transistor circuit. Jumper the output port you have selected to the IN pin on RELAY1, RELAY2, or RELAY3, then jumper the the OUT pin on the same relay circuit to the desired pin on the adapter board.
The 12 volt output can take a ground trigger output from IAC, WLED, ALED, or one of the relay circuits, and use it to supply 12 volts to a solenoid or relay. Use this for features like VTEC or GM fuel pumps that are powered from the ECU instead of grounded."
Here is the mod we did, Adding a Relay Circuit:
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/other/common-megasquirt-modifications/
Beyond the physical circuits this stuff is indistinguishable to me from magic. Sometimes I manage to muddle through but I have no idea how it really works.
But if you have a conflict between the aux outputs and the ignition outputs one or the other needs to be turned off, so maybe it means finding out how to turn off the ignition outputs.
That's just a guess because you still need the SAW signal to run your EDIS.
It seems to make some sense, since it was all working before until we enabled the tach output.
I know we disabled (tried anyway) the tach output before but didn't get it working again until we disabled the aux outputs. So maybe we were not successful in disabling the tach output? (Or some other related spark output that we might have turned on in attempting to get the tach to work?) At this point that seems like the most likely scenario.
You could try disabling anything that looks like it is remotely associated with the ignition system and see if the error goes away.
Jim
QuoteThese supply ground to a relay, and may be used to activate cooling fans,
Didn't say anything about turning them back off. ;)
Right, Carl, but since it goes through the controller which switches the relay and the ignition turns the computer off then it goes all the way around the barn to close the gate.
Point is, we did have it working.
Until we enabled the tach output.
So.... going the long way around the barn to do it, how about reloading the firmware then reloading the tune from scratch? Lots of work I know. Means printing out screen shots of every single configuration page and then using hard copy to put it all back in, creating an entirely new "My Car" project, but it seems to me that would work even if nothing else does.
That's option "D". The error message tells us there is an option "A". If we knew how to do it.
Any luck with the MS forum?
Jim
I posted the msq file to the thread I started when we were messing with it.. Still waiting on a reply.
Hi Dan,
How's the troubleshooting coming along?
I found a similar thread on the msextra forum. It seems that a there is a known bug in the program that creates the error I am seeing when I try to activate the extra ports. It causes a conflict with the injector ports. I have asked if there has been any resolution to that but so far have gotten no response. I guess I am going to have to just go old-school and put a switched relay on the fans or something so they cut off when I turn off the engine.
Huh. Interesting. I'm assuming we still have the latest firmware loaded, you might want to contact Matt at DIY with a call or email and ask him about that. Could be a more direct route to a solution. If you do, try to give him the reference to where you found it.
Jim
Sounds like you're having fun! Thanks for the update Dan.
Sounds more like MegaPITA. ;)
I saw somewhere in the UK a company is now selling the subframe to fit this motor in the Wedge