With my continuing efforts to make this car extremely reliable I am looking to replace my fuel pump with one I can easily get in the UK and that its not too expensive as I will buy a spare.
I have a rover 3.9l with a 500 Edelbrock and all has gone well for the first 700 miles or so. However, drove 70 miles to see Clive Weatley and on my return after 60 miles the engine stopped. I checked and replaced the ignition module and stripped off the top of the carb and discovered there was no fuel.
I checked the voltage at the pump ( a brand new mgb v8 electronic Quentin Hazel) and it was 2 volts. Re-checked and there was a spark I had 12 volts and an inlet manifold full of bubbling petrol. It doesn't half disappear fast.... And then the car started and ran home. I had changed/touched nothing. I can only guess that it had got a little overworked as I had just done the last 20 miles at around 85mph.... Oops sorry 70mph.
So, I have looked at Facet pumps as I can easily get them here....all are too low or high for the Edelbrock and also found Holley/Carter/Edelbrock/Mallory ect ect. Some are noisyier than others I believe.
I am led to believe that rotary are better than ordinary pumps and wondered should I go over spec. ( 6-7.25psi) on a Facet and use a regulator or go under spec. on a Facet (4-5.5psi) or .....
Any suggestions will be greatly received.
Regards Ian
If you checked and found low voltage and then checked again and got a spark and had 12 volts you have a bad connection somehwere if not at the pump itself.
If you buy Edelbrock, holley, carter pumps you should not need a spare.
I have all of the above fitted to my cars. The most quiet pump is the Edelbrock billet pump with integral filter and fuel pressure regulator.
If you dont mind a bit of pump noise a holley pump will be fine as they come a regulator.
You can get these pumps from Real Steel in Uxbridge middx or USA automotive in Bedford + a few other places.
I'm using an Edelbrock 1791 with a 525cfm carb. Reasonably quiet and hopefully long lived!
Thanks for the reply. I agree that I shouldn't need a spare but some of the British Leyand stuff can be a little unreliable. I have had 3 ignition modules fail, one straight out of its box, before I found the real Lucas version....which seems thus far to be OK.
The fuel pump stopping was a little strange as I really didn't touch anything when it burst into life and yes it should point to a bad connection. I just wondered if it had got a little warm and decided to take a rest. I will check again all connections.
I will look into how easy it is to buy Edelbrock/Holley/Carter in the UK.
Many Thanks.
Ian,
at the risk of getting kicked out of the pool I, would suggest the old dual solenoid SU pump.
In order to retain a modicum of credibility I should explain myself.
The good old dual solenoid SU pump that was fitted to Jags, Rovers, Healeys etc. back in the day is a good candidate.
It is available, still, all over the UK.
It is rugged and reliable.
It flows enough fuel to supply 350 or so hp.
It's output is well matched to the Edelbrock carbs needs.
Compared to the competition it is relatively quiet.
It is easily rebuild-able.
As it's really two pumps siamesed together you have a built in redundancy.
It just plain looks cool.
And lastly if it does fail in the field it can literally be repaired with a nail file.
Hope that you will still respect me in the morning.
Fred
I have a variety of Holley pumps both "red" (no reg) and "blue" ( reg necessary) and they work great but are noisy even when rubber mounted. One car had a red holley on it when I bought it in 1990 with the early holley decal so its much older than that and it still works great! I recommend a relay when using the holleys.
I also have more than a few "facet" pumps, there are at least two pressure styles available, one around 2-3psi and the more typical 4+ psi style. I feel these are pretty quiet and I dont believe a relay is necessary for them as I havent had any trouble without one on them. Of the 4 that Ive owned, only one crapped out and it may have been a "copy" of the true Facet brand though it looked identical. Great for the street but not enough for track in my opinion.
I have a few Edelbrock carbs and I have always set my fuel pressure around 6 psi with no trouble, I think you can go up to 8psi with a holley before it pushes past the needle and seat.
The most economical choice would be the Facet and keep a spare for the sake of it as they run between 35-50 bux each and it will be an easy install in an emergency. For street AND strip/track use, I recommend the holley red. The only other pump Ive owned other then these was a Mallory 250 with is crazy (and very noisy) for street as it needed a reg, relay, and a return line. It was a strip car only and I replaced it with the holley blue as it was still more than enough for anything I run. Thats all I have for fuel pump experience, hope it helps a little bit,hehehe........
Jimmy
Today is someone's lucky day! (<a href="http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?11,40096">Shortcut to our classified section.</a>)
Hi, thanks for the replies. Had settled for shelling out on the Edelbrock until Jimmys reply so maybe a couple of Facets will do. I might plumb two together using a Y piece and two ball valves. That should give real redundancy.
Only reason for the doubts on the fuel pump is that in 45 years of motoring I have only ever had four breakdowns. Two alternators failed (one was bearing failure) and two SU pumps. The pump failures have been in the last four years and both pumps were new. With the first SU I rebuilt it and set up the points etc, having spoken at lengths with SU and it still lasted less than 12 months. The second was with the later SU electronic type which lasted about 700 miles. So I have become a little twitchy especially as it is my day car.
Thanks Ian
I'm using a Carter gear pump (it's a bit noisy at idle but can't hear it once moving) from Summit Racing right now after the gas/ethanol mix trashed the check valve in my inline pump. The Facet pumps from Aircraft Spruce are used in a lot of light and ultralight aircraft. A friend has had a facet pump in his RV4 for years.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php
I have run SU, Carter, Walbro, Holley and the store brand generic Advance Auto pumps. For quiet operation, low cost and reliability with a carb I'd go with the AA unit for up to about 300 hp. But you really can't beat an in-tank EFI pump.
Jim
Advance Auto part number E8012S worked well for me... for about two years. It is relatively quiet and cheap. It doesn't have a mounting bracket, so the easiest way to install it is with tie-wraps.
I had a Mallory pump that lasted for about 30,000 miles. The motor brushes wore out, I did purchase a replacement set of brushes, but I also bought a Holley Red pump. It appears that the Holley pump uses the same motor as the Mallory. It might be a good idea to check the brushes every few years and replace them as needed if using these pumps.
I tried a Carter pump, but it was too loud. But it should last forever. It needs to be mounted with the motor down so that the motor is always flooded with gasoline. The gasoline cools the motor and lubricates the brushes, just like an OEM fuel injection pump.
QuoteIt needs to be mounted with the motor down so that the motor is always flooded with gasoline.
Interesting! I've seen them mounted the other way...
I'm not sure the Carter pump sends gasoline through the motor, but it could be they have made two versions.
Jim
The following quote is from the Carter website (notice the reference to a wet motor):
Rotary vane design
Originally created for military use, this design has been in production longer than any other Carter model. Rotating vanes driven by a heavy-duty wet motor deliver pressure from 4 to 18 psi at a flow rate of up to 100 gallons per hour. This provides excellent lift and prime capability. The pump is available in 6-, 12- and 24-volt versions. It is appropriate for RV, marine, agricultural, industrial and performance applications.
I see. Well it does nothing to make it quieter. I think I still have mine on the shelf with the other used fuel pumps. I was very happy to go to a quieter pump. There was nothing I could do to kill the noise. Odd thing though, IIRC I believe it was sometimes loud and sometimes not.
Jim
Over the 40 years I've owned my GT I've been through a number of fuel pumps and remember thinking all along that they felt and sounded like someone was beating on the car with a ball peen hammer. I often wished I could install a mechanical pump but that isn't an option with the 4, and not much better with a V8. I gave thought a couple of times of enclosing the pump to deaden the sound or mounting it on rubber but never did anything about it; probably just overheat anyway. I haven't purchased my fuel pump yet, so I've been following this thread with great interest. Thank you all for the valuable info!
Paul
I agree with Jim. My Carter is annoyingly loud. I don't feed enough horsepower to need to listen to that. I think I want a Facet.
Any gear type pump is quiet. The rotary vane pumps tend to be very noisy. Facet pumps are quiet...
To throw another name into the melting pot, I have a Mitsuba pump and have a Sytec Proflow pressure regulator between that and an Edelbrock performer 500 carb.
The pump makes a ticking noise whilst priming the carb, but once the engine is running you can't hear it.
Graham B
The final solution.
Having decided to go the Red Top Facet route, with a higher pressure I needed a regulator and having looked under the bonnet/hood decided it was going to be too hard to fit, re work pipes and keep cool. So I settled for the Edelbrok which seems to work fine and is quiet. I left in the MGB pump and plumbed them both in using T connectors and ball valves. So now I have redundancy always assuming the MGB pump works again.
Thanks for all your help/suggestions.
Hello it's me Mr. Ahlstrom I think I've tried every kind of fuel pump there is over the years on different cars shopping for fuel pumps is like looking for a pair of shoes there are a lot of different ones out there one rule of Thum that I use is to get a pump that you can replace on a road trip 1000 miles from home in any town you might be in when it dies not if it dies there are some really good fuel pumps out there if you want to spend big money the Holley blue or red rotary vain pumps are a good pump that will support a lot of horsepower my car being a nitrous car has to have sufficient fuel pressure if it goes lean on the bottle the motor will go boom. Here is what I found to be a good little trick Holley pumps normally the bypass valve is set at 14 to 16 pounds the pump's are struggling chewing itself up and running its bypass valve if you remove the bypass valve spring shorten it slightly it relieves the pressure and strain on the pump I run a Holley blue pump with the spring cut back to 11 pounds it cut the noise of the pump in half it has been in the car three years and not died yet is the first one that ever lasted more than a year and a half when it does die on the road I can find one any parts store and change it in 10 minutes most carbureted motors do not need more than five or 6 pounds of pressure my nitrous system needs 8 to 10 pounds so I run the pump bypass at 11 pounds I put a new Holley blue pump on a Corvette for my neighbor a few months back in stock out-of-the-box the bypass was at 19 pounds and it was the loudest Holley pump I've ever heard I cut his spring back to 7 pounds in his pump is now quieter than mine I don't know if that will help you at all but that's the experience this Swedish hillbilly has had with fuel pumps I have also-ran offbrand Holly look-alike pumps that ran just fine no different than a Holley probably made in the same place just a different label
Thanks Tom for your reply! I always wondered if I could bring the psi output down on the holley style pumps. I even called Holley to ask them if I could put the red pump spring in the blue style and they didnt give me a stright answer but with what youve discovered answers that for me, Thanks!
I'm digging up old threads, but that's better than starting the discussion again from scratch.
So I put a MrGasket 95P fuel pump on my 302 ford powered TR7. I have a holley carb, which is supposed to have 5-7PSI fuel pressure if I recall correctly.
The 95P is really loud, so I'm looking for another option. I was considering an Airtex solenoid pump (E8012S or E8016S), but neither seem to have the right fuel pressure range. The 8012 goes to 9PSI, and the 8016 goes to 4.5PSI. I'm leaning toward the 4.5PSI version (E8016S). Is that a bad choice?
The other option I'm considering is the Airtex E8004 rollervane pump. That one is a 35GPH, 6PSI pump. Seems about right. I spoke to tech support at Airtex, and asked about noise and reliablity. He said the 8012 or 8016 is very reliable if it is mounted close to the tank (within 2 feet or so) with a 60-70 micron pre-filter. He said any of those three pumps should be much quiter than the Holley Red/Blue style pumps (like the MrGasket 95P I have now). Has anyone tried the E8004 pump?
I have been running the same E8012S fuel pump on my 3.9L V8 gt for over 10 years...I keep a spare in the trunk but never had to use it...the only time I hear it is when I turn on the ignition prior to start up....
Quotethe only time I hear it is when I turn on the ignition prior to start up
.
Oh, how I need one of those! :)
Carl...you have to consider that I can't hear out of my right ear and the left isn't much better (I actually suggested to my wife that we we purchase a RHD car so I could hear her conversation better with my left ear...no, she did not take the bait) The Airtex E8012S is usually available at the chain parts stores for @ $50....