BritishV8 Forum

General Category => Engine, Transmission, & Rear Axle assy. => Topic started by: WedgeWorks1 on July 20, 2008, 08:51:53 PM

Title: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: WedgeWorks1 on July 20, 2008, 08:51:53 PM
Hi All-

I have been building up a collection of Works TR7V8 Rally parts that are all period correct. I got a few intakes, all period correct but this one is interesting! It is a Huffaker 4 barrel intake with a British Leyland swirl logo cast into it! Typically it would be a round boss and thats it. The famous Huffaker "H" is on the other side of the manifold. In addition is have a power brake booster take off and the coolant hose fittings front and rear. Has anyone else seen another of these BL intakes or have any knowledge of this odd-ball?

BLMotorsport1A.jpg
Side With BL Swirl

HPIM0085A.jpg
Both Huffaker "H" & BL Swirl

-Michael
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: Dan Jones on July 21, 2008, 03:34:05 PM
> It is a Huffaker 4 barrel intake with a British Leyland swirl logo cast
> into it! Typically it would be a round boss and thats it.  The famous
> Huffaker "H" is on the other side of the manifold. In addition is have
> a power brake booster take off and the coolant hose fittings front and
> rear. Has anyone else seen another of these BL intakes or have any
> knowledge of this odd-ball?

I've got one of those.  Given the fact the Huffaker ports are perfect match
for a 1964 Buick 300 aluminum head, I wonder if the Rover racers running
the Huffaker intake were also running Buick 300 heads.  I spent some time
evaluating a couple of single plane intakes on Dave McLain's flow bench in
Cuba, Missouri.  The two intakes tested were a Huffaker:

 http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery2/v/hidden/dan/dan-cars/album10/album13/Huffaker_front.jpg.html
 http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery2/v/hidden/dan/dan-cars/album10/album13/Huffaker_side.jpg.html
 http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery2/v/hidden/dan/dan-cars/album10/album13/Huffaker_bottom_side.jpg.html

and a Willpower:

 http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery2/v/hidden/dan/dan-cars/album10/album13/Willpower_1.jpg.html
 http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery2/v/hidden/dan/dan-cars/album10/album13/Willpower_2.jpg.html

Note the Willpower intake pictured is not the actual intake tested.  I've
not yet taken pitures of the intake we tested but it differs from the one
pictured in that it has EFI injectors bungs in each port but the injectors
were not installed for these tests.  The Huffaker has larger ports which
better match the Buick 300 heads:

 http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery2/v/hidden/dan/dan-cars/album10/album12/Buick_300_Huffaker_ports.jpg.html

The Willpower has smaller Rover-sized ports but has a better radius on
the end runners than the Huffaker.  An end port and a center port of the
head were first flowed without an intake attached to get a baseline, then
flowed with the intake bolted in place.  Also, a Holley 780 carb body
with the throttle plates at full open was bolted to the intake to
represent the pressure drop across a carb or fuel injection throttle body.
I'll be using an EFI throttle body later but have not purchased it yet.
When the heads were ported, they were tested on a Superflow bench at a
28" H2O pressure drop.  The head had a clayed intake radius but no exhaust
pipe stub was used on the exhaust.  Those numbers are shown in the 2nd and
3rd columns.  The 4th and 5th columns are the same head flowed on Dave's
bench which has a 10" H2O pressure drop.  The numbers were converted
mathematically to 28" to be on a consistent basis.  Note the numbers are
somewhat lower than those of the 28" bench.  We're not sure if this due
in part to the conversion or is simply bench-to-bench variation.  In any
case, it doesn't influence the results of the intake manifold tests.
On both single plane intakes, the center runners are short and straight
while the end runners are long and curved, so one center port and one end
port were tested.  The Huffaker was bolted to the head and tested first,
followed by the Willpower.  The results are shown below and are best
viewed in a non-proportional font like courier:

 Valve  Buick 300      Ported Buick 300   Same head with     Same head with
 Lift   1964           head on McLain's   Huffaker intake    Willpower intake
 (inch) aluminum       flow bench         center runner      center runner
        ported         10" numbers
        Int    Exh     converted to 28"   CFM    % of        CFM    % of
        1.775" 1.5"    Int     Exh               bare               bare
                       1.775"  1.5"              head               head
                       Int     Exh
                       center
                       port

 0.050   --    --       26.3   22.6        26.1   99.2        27.6  104.9
 0.100   66    47       56.3   51.6        55.1   97.9        56.4  100.2
 0.150   99    82       86.8   75.0        87.8  101.1        89.0  102.5
 0.200  129   104      115.1   98.4       117.2  101.8       119.1  103.5
 0.250  155   119      140.4  114.1       141.4  100.7       142.8  101.7
 0.300  174   130      158.1  125.4       160.6  101.5       160.0  101.2
 0.350  187   139      171.7  134.4       169.9   98.9       167.9   98.0
 0.400  191   146      179.8  140.2       170.5   94.8       172.2   95.8
 0.450  194   150      181.3  143.2       172.6   95.2       174.3   96.1
 0.500  196   152      182.1  144.3       173.9   95.5       175.3   96.2

 Valve  Buick 300      Ported Buick 300   Same head with     Same head with
 Lift   1964           head on McLain's   Huffaker intake    Willpower intake
 (inch) aluminum       flow bench         end runner         end runner
        ported         10" numbers
        Int    Exh     converted to 28"   CFM    % of        CFM    % of
        1.775" 1.5"    1.775"  1.5"              bare               bare
                       end                       head               head
                       port

 0.050   --    --       25.5   22.6        26.8  105.9        26.9  105.5
 0.100   66    47       55.0   51.6        56.6  102.9        55.4  100.7
 0.150   99    82       87.0   75.0        88.2  101.4        88.6  101.8
 0.200  129   104      116.9   98.4       114.1   97.6       119.8  102.5
 0.250  155   119      143.4  114.1       132.5   92.4       144.6  100.8
 0.300  174   130      157.8  125.4       146.5   92.8       164.8  104.4
 0.350  187   139      171.6  134.4       155.6   90.7       173.3  101.0
 0.400  191   146      178.3  140.2       156.9   88.0       175.0   98.1
 0.450  194   150      180.8  143.2       156.6   86.6       176.0   97.3
 0.500  196   152      182.9  144.3       157.6   86.2       175.3   95.8

Despite the smaller runners, the Willpower is the better flowing manifold.
The center ports on both intakes are quite close to the head flow but
the Huffaker end ports are not as good.  I think it would be worthwhile to
port just the ends of the Huffaker intake end runners with a better radius
to see if the flow loss could be recovered.  There's a slight drop off in
flow as lift increases on the Willpower intake that may be due to the small
port size.  The Willpower could be ported to a larger size but given how
close the intake is to the bare head flow, it's probably not worth the
trouble.  The worst flows are at 96%.  As a point of comparison, we've
recently flow tested a couple of (non-Rover) dual plane intake manifolds
and they were in the mid 70% flow range (unported).

Dan Jones
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: hoffbug on July 21, 2008, 06:24:18 PM
Great stuff Dan..


Im in the proce$$ of ordering a Willpower...

But would like to know what the specs are for the cross sectional areas, runner lengths, and plenum area for
 1. The Harcourt.
 2. The Huffaker.
 3. The Willpower

At some point Id like to try my hand at fabricating a sheetmetal intake.
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: NixVegaGT on July 21, 2008, 11:36:22 PM
Cool, Tony! Out of aluminum?

Dan, I wish you were more specific and wrote more in your posts. LOL! Seriously thanks for you dedication, Man. It's  great.
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: BlownMGB-V8 on July 22, 2008, 01:31:07 PM
Dan, that's really good info.
Things are moving right along on the larger displacement Buick small blocks, in a year or so we can hope to have a new TA Rover style head, but so far no plans for an intake for them. That may change suddenly if the 350 boys start snatching up the new heads (would mean using the early cam, intake and exhaust layout) since the 340 stuff would bolt up. Might be worth looking to see what intakes might support a 340 or 350 with the new heads, possibly with spacer plates.

Jim
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: Dan Jones on July 22, 2008, 06:01:22 PM
> But would like to know what the specs are for the cross sectional areas,
> runner lengths, and plenum area for
> 1. The Harcourt.
> 2. The Huffaker.
> 3. The Willpower

Huffaker:
 port dimensions 1 3/4" tall x 1" wide
 short runners = (2 + 3 3/8)/2 = 2.6875 inches
 long runners = (3 3/4 + 5)/2 = 4.375 inches
 average runners = 3.53 inches

Willpower:
 port dimensions 1.63" tall x 0.966" wide

I don't have anything for the Harcourt.

> Things are moving right along on the larger displacement Buick small blocks,
> in a year or so we can hope to have a new TA Rover style head, but so far no
> plans for an intake for them.

I wasn't aware of a TA Rover style head.  What are the details
(valve sizes, chamber volume, port locations, rocker arm style,
flow goal, etc.)?  I saw they are working on hydraulic roller cams
for the 350.  HR cams for the 215/300/340 would be nice.

> Dan, I wish you were more specific and wrote more in your posts. LOL!
> Seriously thanks for you dedication, Man. It's great.

You're welcome.

Dan Jones
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: BlownMGB-V8 on July 23, 2008, 02:23:57 AM
The TA heads will be the same design as their current V6 heads. Mike told me they would just cut 1 chamber off two V6 molds, glue them together, and they would have it so it would be quick and easy to develop, unlike designing a 350 head. The V6 heads have now produced 1700 hp in twin turbo racing configuration according to Mike. Here are some specs from their catalog:

"V6 Stage 1 SE Aluminum Cylinder Heads - ASSEMBLED      
Product ID: TA_V3850_SE-A
V6 Stage 1 SE Aluminum Cylinder Heads - ASSEMBLED
   

Details

TA's V6 Stage 1 Street Eliminator (SE) series head is our high performance head. Versions of this head with heavy porting have made 1500 hp on a 274 inch twin turbo application. Use this head for serious street/strip and race applications where the most power potential is desired.

Intake Manifold: TA, Stock, BGC Port Matched
Exhaust Manifold/Headers: Stock
Rocker Assembly: TA V1308 Series
Head Stud Kit: TA 1133A (8 bolt) TA 1133B (14 bolt)
Power Potential: Will support up to 1500 HP
Valves Int./Exh: 1.940 / 1.600
CFM (base) Int./Exh: 213 / 178 .500" Lift
CFM (max) Int./Exh: 270 / 187 @ .550" Lift - 275 / 200 @ .650" Lift (Fully Ported)
Chamber CC's: 46, 55
Runner CC's Int/Exh: 163/ 73

        ~For Special Order Requests, Please Call~
Price: $1,799.95 "

They will start working on them as soon as they have finished the aluminum 455 block, which is now at the foundry. This block, which will list for $5900 and will support larger bore and stroke and has replaceable liners should be available in limited numbers before the end of the year. Anyone want a sub-400 lb big block?

Jim
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: NixVegaGT on July 24, 2008, 01:08:29 PM
QuoteThe TA heads will be the same design as their current V6 heads. Mike told me they would just cut 1 chamber off two V6 molds, glue them together, and they would have it so it would be quick and easy to develop, unlike designing a 350 head. The V6 heads have now produced 1700 hp in twin turbo racing configuration according to Mike. Here are some specs from their catalog:

That is really hot.

Penthouse forum for motorheads.


QuoteAnyone want a sub-400 lb big block?

Yes please. I love TA.
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: Dan Jones on July 25, 2008, 02:44:35 PM
Thanks for the info on the TA Rover heads, Jim.  Looks like they'll
have to reduce the valve size to fit in the smaller Rover bores but
they should still flow pretty well.  So how close is a Buick 300
port (intake and exhaust) to a Buick V6?

Dan Jones
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: BlownMGB-V8 on July 28, 2008, 12:21:39 PM
Don't really know Dan, the cast iron heads have much larger ports (stock) of course and the TA heads have big ports to start with. They're larger than the iron port heads without porting I think. I also think it might depend on what V6 you're comparing with. Also I'm not real sure whether the first V6 was derived from the '64 or '65 design and that would make a difference.

The 340 used the same heads as the 300 (same bore) and the distance outside-outside on valves in the '64 300 heads is 3.175". I'm sure TA has optimized valve size and placement in the V6 head and shrouding is likely to be an issue in the smaller bores, but I don't know if they'll have to change the valve sizes or not.

Jim
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: roverman on April 30, 2009, 01:44:40 PM
For what its worth, I have a" Wildcat"  4bbl. coming from Ian to go against my massaged 340" heads. Still haven't heard of any flows specs, etc. on these heads. Cross-section of port is approx. 57% larger than Rover. Trying to make a 1.89" int. valve work.  To be continued. Art.
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: Greg55_99 on April 30, 2009, 02:41:51 PM
Please post a pic when it comes in.

Greg
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: roverman on September 14, 2015, 12:35:16 PM
Looks like a cast-in logo, behind the coolant outlet. What does it say ?
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 14, 2015, 06:01:04 PM
here is the logo
99.jpg
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 15, 2015, 01:46:44 AM
I cant be the only one with this inlet manifold?????
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: Moderator on September 15, 2015, 10:43:50 PM
It's handsome looking.

I'm curious about why it appears to be missing bolt holes. Perhaps it really is a one-off or prototype.
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 15, 2015, 11:09:28 PM
Yes its good looking manifold .
I have had it checked for cracks it came back clear.
I got in contact with John Eales he seed
The manifold is noy one I .
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 16, 2015, 01:40:47 AM
here on rover v8 it just touches the rocker covers
39.jpg
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 13, 2015, 11:40:57 PM
HI can you identify  this  manifold PLEASE .i have look everywhere
216.jpg


Moderator: I tried to split the new "mystery manifold" posts into their own new thread, failed, and now this one is out of sequence. Sorry for any confusion caused...
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 16, 2015, 06:54:36 PM
So its is one of a kind manifold
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: mgb260 on September 17, 2015, 11:53:38 AM
Jay, That intake looks like a prototype, no bolt holes?
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on September 19, 2015, 03:28:51 AM
Cool thanks for that
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on November 11, 2015, 11:05:27 PM
Some of the holes drilled out
1447300541914.jpg
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: BlownMGB-V8 on November 12, 2015, 11:10:15 AM
Those holes are not at a 90 degree angle to the mounting face. Also they should be oversize except for one which is a milled slot that positions the intake fore and aft.

Jim
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on November 12, 2015, 04:36:56 PM
Hi Jim you are right on that.. I still have to get it machined down more because it's  sets a bet too high in the valley the ports nearly match up . I know what you mean by the 90 degrees the Machine Shop I'm not too sure why they did  that . They reckon this manifold is not made for The Rover standard Heats but for Buick 300 cubic inch Heats.
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: BlownMGB-V8 on November 12, 2015, 07:27:45 PM
Makes no difference Jay, the heads are the same. I think the angle is about 70 degrees IIRC.

Jim
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: Dan Jones on November 13, 2015, 03:05:48 PM
> They reckon this manifold is not made for The Rover standard Heads but for Buick 300 cubic inch Heads.

What size are the ports?  My Huffaker Rover intake ports measure 1 3/4" tall x 1" wide and are a good match for the Buick 300 heads.

Dan Jones
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: rover sd1 v8 on November 14, 2015, 06:16:00 PM
HI Dan .The  ports are  1 3/4"  and 1" wide.  Yes i think  you are right  about the heads .
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: bigaldart on December 01, 2015, 02:26:12 AM
More than likely that manifold is BL marked as a homologation special for the factory cars. I believe any parts used in competition had to be marked a factory parts to be legal.

Alan
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: 3528sd1 on September 21, 2017, 01:51:49 AM
Hi Jay  I recognise this manifold back in the day it was a special development that never went ahead please message me through private email .I can give you more information on this manifold I was one of the designers. PS how did you come by this manifold they were dismantled they weren't supposed to be released to the public so please contact me thank you. Regards old timer
Title: Re: British Leyland Factory 4 Barrel Intake?
Post by: MGBV8 on September 21, 2017, 10:06:54 AM
QuoteI can give you more information on this manifold I was one of the designers.

There are quite a few of us here that are interested in the history & any other info that you can provide about this mystery intake manifold.  Thanks!