I am now ready to order my tires and wheels so this is the last time I will be bringing up this subject. I know they have been done to death, but I like the Mini-Lite look. I'm getting from you guy's input that without flares, but probably with rolled fender lips and a panard bar, I can run 15x7, 4x114.3 (4.5"), 35 to 38 mm offset, wheels and 225/60R15 tires. Would 50 series be better? If this isn't so, any correction would be greatly appreciated. Also, I've checked a number of sites online and they don't list offset on their wheels; I'm hesitant to blindly order something this expensive over the net and not be sure. Unless someone has an affordable source I'm probably going to get them through Discount Tire. Every time I spend a lot of money on my baby it makes me feel like someday I'll actually get it on the road (I know better than to say finished).
Paul
Paul,
Without spacers that offset likely will rub on the inner fender well in the rear. I run 16x7 et38 mm but use 3/8" spacers. This is with 205/55/16 Yohohama tires.
You will probably have to flatten the bump stop hump in inner fender and roll the fender lip. 35-36 mm offset,225/50/15.
I like eight-spoke wheels. I had cheap 14" eight-spoke wheels on my car for many years, and now I've had 15" ones for about five years. I'll probably upgrade again when/if I go to flared fenders.
I would encourage you to talk to wheel dealers and find out exactly what they offer and recommend. Since you mentioned Minilite by name, it's appropriate to advise that for genuine, authentic, Made-in-England, Minilite wheels there's exactly one North American importer and it isn't Discount Tire. It's John Targett at <a href="http://www.britishv8.org/Sponsors/Targett-MotorSport.htm">
Targett Motorsport</a> and phone number 330-283-3668.
There must be at least a dozen other manufacturers of 8-spoke wheels, but they all look different. Some more different than others! Besides the shape of the spokes, the diameter of the center part, and the flatness of the center part there are various paint and finish differences (e.g. machine polished outer rims vs painted) and functional differences (e.g. steel inserts for the lug nuts to bear on.) Some wheels can be special ordered with different backspacing than listed as "standard". Shop carefully and weigh the many pros and cons.
<a href="http://www.britishv8.org/Sponsors/Moss-Motors.htm">
Moss Motors</a> offers two different makes of fake Minilites: Panasport (Japanese) and no-name (Chinese). Sometimes it works out well to buy Moss parts through an authorized Moss distributor, such as Pete Mantell at <a href="http://www.britishv8.org/Sponsors/Mantell-Motorsport.htm">
Mantell Motorsport</a>. (Hint: compare shipping cost, taxes, and sale pricing.) Finally, I have it on good authority that Bill Guzman at <a href="http://www.britishv8.org/Sponsors/Classic-Conversions.htm">
Classic Conversions Engineering</a> will soon be offering VTO (Chinese) fake Minilites.
Paul,
Play with this calculator:
http://kgm.tiwing.com/calcs/offsetcalc.htm
That sounds like a bit too much offset. Graham will know what you need he runs 15X7 with a 225/50-15. You will want 50 series. The 60s will be too tall.
As Jim said, the hump has to go & roll the fender lips.
My 15 x 7 Panasports have 22mm offset (which is suppose to be the same as MGB RB Rostyle offset).
Thanks everybody, all I have to do now is spend the money. Putting tires and wheels on it, though a little scary, is sort of a milestone. I'll take some pictures when I get them mounted.
Paul
Just to clear the muddy water:
QuoteThe MGB was the largest user of Rostyle wheels from 1970 to 1980, although wheel offset differed between those fitted to chrome bumper (1970-early 1974) and rubber bumper (1974.5-1980) cars; early cars used a 2.814cm offset, while that of later Rostyles was 2.384cm, explained by a switch from using 155R14 to 165R14 tires.
http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2006/06/01/hmn_feature28.html
http://www.richardthompson.co.uk/mg/ofset.asp
Carl, I found the articles very informative and though I'm apologetically a little dense, I think I get it. If my math is correct a 76 has an offset of 23.84mm (2.384cm) and a 72 has an offset of 28.14mm (2.814cm). I assume then that an offset of 22mm on my 72 might be just a little short. I'm also starting to rethink the 225/50R15 and maybe I should consider a 215. I want to use the widest tire possible, but I still have to get it out of my driveway. I know this is a lot of trouble but I'm learning a lot here, and hopefully others are too. Again guys, thanks so much.
Paul
Don't over think it Paul. If 15x7 wheels with 22mm offset and 225/50/15's fit Graham's car, why wouldn't they fit yours. Probably have to roll the fender lips and maybe flatten the inner wheel well bumps, but if it worked for Graham it should work for you.
I don't recall what you are using for the rear axle. Once that is set, it's all in the offset. We know that 225/50-15 on a 7" wide wheel will fit cause Graham runs them, as does Steve Carrick. I have done quite a bit of measuring & I am pretty sure I can squeeze in 7.5" wheel with the right offset. Then I came to my senses & decided I really didn't want that much weight hanging off each corner of my car. ;)
Hang some plumb bobs (or just some weighted strings) in the front & back of your wheel well to measure the room available. Plug your stock wheel & offset into the calculator above, then you can see how the offset moves the wheel around in the well.
At least for now I'm running a stock 72 MGB rear axle and I think Graham is using a 8.8 Ford. I don't know what the difference is.
Paul
Good point, I wasn't thinking about the fact that his axle may not be the stock width. I'll bet Graham will clarify before too long.
FYI - My 8.8 is narrowed to stock width.
I'm on my second set of 225/50R15 tires but I'm seriously thinking of downsizing width for the next set to 215 or 205's - there's only a half inch lost on tread width (with the 205's) but it would resolve my occasional minor fender rub on severe bumps, perhaps lessen the steering effort and reduce unsprung weight....and not to mention that fewer manufacturers are producing 225/50R15 tires.
MG had a habit of poorly centering spring perches on their axles. (Search the archive for more info, or measure your axle and see for yourself.) When you narrow an axle, you have control over how accurately the axle is centered.
I've been thinking on the same lines Graham, maybe I should go with 205 or 215; they will certainly look better than my 195's. I'll still use a panhard rod to steady up the rear axle movement (I know, actually the body moves, not the axle). Good point Curtis, I had a 71 roadster that was off to the left and I thought it had a bent frame. When I sold it, in keeping with my innate honesty :-), I told the guy, who was a MG owner, it was like that and he didn't seem to concern, but now I know the truth :-) I haven't measured my GT yet, but I certainly will.
Paul
QuoteWhen you narrow an axle, you have control over how accurately the axle is centered
Yep, my 8.8 spring perches are welded off centre by about 200 thou.
Now for the most difficult step of the entire process...
Finding a wheel you like with the offset you need in a bolt pattern that you can make work!
Isn't that the truth, seems like the wheel manufactures think we all want 18" wheels. I'd just be happy with 15x7 I could afford, and it would be nice if they fit without super glue.
Paul
Paul, have you looked at Hap Waldrop's VTO wheels?
http://www.acmespeedshop.com/wheels.html
I have found a number of wheels I like, mostly the Voxx MG-3. Voxx refers to it as 15x7, 4x114.3, 38sml. I'm not familiar with sml, is that the same as offset? I know this is too much offset, but does it mean I could use a spacer behind it? I have a milling machine and lathe in my garage and if unavailable I can machine pretty much any spacer I want. I'll call Voxx tomorrow and ask but they probably won't have any idea what a MG is. Just thought I'd run it by you guys first.
Paul
MG3.jpg
Paul, find the dimension on the hub bore also...
Ask them what it weighs while you are at it.
A 15x7 weighs 16 pounds. They didn't have their number on the website so I sent them an email about the offset. I'll send them another about the hub bore. Let you know when I hear from them.
Paul
The Voxx website indicates 2 available offsets of 20 & 38mm for that particular 15 x 7 wheel - that probably indicates that 'sml' is indeed the offset dim'n.
http://www.voxxwheel.com/eng/wheels/euro-style/mg-3/
Paul,
Those are the wheels I am running but 16x7 with 38 mm offset. Using a 3/8" spacer as I mentioned before. Sml stands for silver with a machined lip.
Thanks guys, I think that's the way to go! I'll see if I get any emails from them tomorrow. I have commitments most of the day tomorrow so I can't order them until Tuesday anyway. Mike, a couple of questions, do you have stock MG suspinion and no flares, did you have any trouble getting lug nuts, are there plugs for the holes you don't use, and did you have to change the wheel studs for longer ones? And one last question. Do you get less clearance with 16's or is the tire sidewall just shorter and stiffer. I'm open to the idea of 16 if it doesn't present a problem?
Paul
Paul,
My car has leaf springs with lowering blocks, sits at 13.5" from wheel center to chrome strip. Slight rub on outside lip on big bumps. Could use slightly less spacer than the 3/8" I have now. This is all based on my tires, 205/55/16, and stock fenders with no mods. If I rolled my outside lip would help but affraid I would crack the paint as mgb metal is stiffer than modern cars. One reason to stay 15" is tire stiffness as my ride is plenty harsh on my local roads (poor).
Yes I needed longer studs and small head nuts.my wheels only have 4 holes, not 8 like some of the multi fitment wheels so no silly looking empty lug holes.
One issue is if you have a stock mg diff as the center caps will not fit due to the axle nut that protrudes.
Mike, where did you get your studs and lug nuts?
Paul,
Been awhile since I did those. Got the studs from Summit and I think they were these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7708/overview/
You will have to check the knurl diam to be sure as I no longer have the invoice. I went with these front and rear and yes they were changed to metric as they had the correct length and diam for teh rear. Had to shorten them on the front.
Lugs nuts I got were gorila tuner acorn seat, discount tire should have them depending what you use for studs.
Thanks Mike, I'll have to figure out what to do about the center caps, but thanks to you I think I've got a handle on it. I was going by a picture I saw on their webpage but I have an email into them about 4 stud holes rather than 8.
Paul
Paul,
Biggest thing to consider is the tire overall width. My 205/55/16 come in at 8.4" and its pushing it. Also the stock diff is offset so the LHS rubs more than the RHS.
I haven't measured my GT's differential offset yet but every MG I've ever owned has had that problem. I had planned to use 205,50R15 tires, roll the fender lips, and use a panhard bar. The car needs a new paint job which I've been putting off to use the money on parts but in the distant future I may flare the fenders, just not right now.
Paul
Just went out and measured my GT. The rear axle is to the left ¼" which seems to be less than what I'm hearing from most of you guys but still, it's off. I don't like saying this because it's not the best way to do it, but would it be too dumb an idea to use different thickness wheel spacers to equal the tire clearance or a ¼" spacer on one side and none on other? If and when I put a Ford rear end under it I'll correct this.
Just got an email from Gabriel at Voxx Wheels: the MG-3 is a single drilled wheel so none ot that multi-fit look. I'll be ordering them in the next day or two.
Paul
Some of you may already know about this site but I just found out. For just about anything to do with what you're looking for in the way of wheels and many other things, check-out this site.
http://www.gorilla-auto.com/
Paul
For lug nuts, I'd highly recommend McGard's 64000 series. Made in U.S.A. and available through many of the popular catalogs: http://www.mcgard.com/
OK. I guess this will be the final word. After numerous emails between myself and Voxx customer service to get details I went to Discount Tire, my local distributor, and placed an order; an hour later I got a call from Discount. When they called Voxx they were told there is no way a 38mm offset can be installed on an MG and the use of spacers are too dangerous and they don't recommend them and refused to ship the wheels. When Discount tried to explain this was a rather modified MG and not stock, they refused to discuss it. You guys do what you want, but for me I'll not do business with Voxx in the future. Discount said to come back in and they would find me a set of wheels at a discount. They were very nice and was shocked at Voxx and there condescending attitude.
Paul
When you speak to a representative on the phone, you never know if you are going to get a knowledgeable person or not. In you case, Paul .... NOT. Discount Tire spoke to the wrong person.
Using the calculator below, plug in a 5" wide wheel with 22mm offset (stock late rostyle). Compare it with your wheel of choice, 7" wide with 38mm offset. We are talking about a wheel that will protrude 9mm more than stock. My wheels are out farther than that, but I dealt with the fender lip & installed panhard rod.
I spent nearly 6 months trying to find a wheel for my MG about 22 years ago. Had zero luck until I quit telling them what kind of car I wanted to put them on. I just did all my own measuring & researching and then ordered what I could find that fit.
http://kgm.tiwing.com/calcs/offsetcalc.htm
I concur. Can you imagine the reactions when saying I wanted 11 x 17- 5 lugs for the rear of an MGB? Same with tires. Even after ordering the tires the seller called to try talking me out of it.
Jim
Paul,
Why not just tell them they are for what ever they show in thier book?
I just talked to Hap Waldrop at Acme Speed Shop and he has exactly what I need, so I think I'll order a set of wheels from him. He has them with a 25mm offset (3mm from stock) which is way better for what I'm doing than 38mm (which would be 16mm off); and if I need to use a spacer Dave Patton at Suto Fab has 4 on 114.3. Hap thought 15X6 would be better, but I still plan on 7" wheels so the tires won't look pinched.
Paul
You can't compare the offsets like that, Paul. Just subtracting the offsets from stock doesn't take in account the extra wheel width.
Use the calculator before you order wheels!
http://kgm.tiwing.com/calcs/offsetcalc.htm
Hap doesn't sell a 15X7 with the offset you really want.
Carl, I looked at the chart [kgm.tiwing.com] but appearantly don't know how to use it; I'm a tad confused now. I've already ordered the wheels and can try to call tomorrow and change the order but it's probably too late and it looks like I'm out a lot of money If Hap, with all his MG expierence, doesn't sell a wheel with the offset I need, what do I need? I know the wheel is 1/2" wider each way If 22 is stock and 25 is 1/8" shouldn't a spacer bring it back to where I need it to be? What offset do I need? When I started this I was told to go with a 15X7 wheel, a lot of other people have and it worked, should I have gone with a 6" wheel? . I've built a lot of cars over the years but this is the most frustrating thing I've delt with. If this goes south on me I'm going to park the car in the back yard, grow my beard back, and go back to my Harley :-)
Paul
OK, I talked to Hap and stopped the order, it wasn't too late. I took another look at the chart and I think I understand what Carl is saying "Thanks Carl". As my car is a street car and I'm too old to do any racing or lap work I think I'll follow what Bryan Jourbarts did. He has a beautiful MGB Roadster (picture attached, I hope he doesn't mine). If they fit his car with no modifications, they should fit mine; however, this does NOT mean I won't grow my beard and ride my Harley this summer :-)
Paul
Bryan_Jourbarts_MGB1.jpg
So... 15x6 Panasports?
Glad you didn't get those 15X7s. What you just about ordered could not have been fixed with spacers, because they were going to be too far out already.
I believe Hap does have a VTO 15X6 that will work. The six inch width is fine if you plan to run a 195 or 205 tire.
They're VTO, which are exactly like Panasport or look like them anyway, just a little less expensive, not much, just a little and they come with the MG center caps. Hap talked me into 15X6, same as Bryan, which he's out of but will have a new shipment in a couple of weeks. He recommends putting 195/50R15's on it, again like Bryan. I have 195 Michelin's on it now and they don't look like rubber bands; 205's aren't that much wider and shouldn't be a problem either. I'm giving some serious consideration to BFGoodrich g-Force Sport Comp-2 tires, undecided on 195 or 205, but that's today, who knows, tomorrow I might like something else. I guess that's the beauty of having a project that's never finished, I've been putting parts on this GT for 35 years and a roadster before that. Now all I have to do is get in touch with Bryan and find out what that color is and where he got it :-)
Paul
Quotehowever, this does NOT mean I won't grow my beard and ride my Harley this summer :-)
Summer on a Harley in Texas . . . as a Texas boy I love it, I don't miss it. You should do it, though. Don't neglect the things that make you happy.
Cheers,
Tim
Thanks Tim. It's hard to avoid the occasional sunburn, but my buddies and I do night rides when we can. I'm getting a little old for it and may have to go to a 3-wheeler soon but I love riding.
Paul
006.JPG
{Thanks Tim. It's hard to avoid the occasional sunburn, but my buddies and I do night rides when we can. I'm getting a little old for it and may have to go to a 3-wheeler soon but I love riding.}
Paul:
Saw this system on a Gold Wing in Alaska a couple of years ago. The guy had a scabbard for his crutches and had rigged an air shifter.
http://trikealternatives.com/retractatrike/
Hey Phil,
There's a few older guys around here with that set up. When the Goldwing convention used to come to Asheville we'd see them all week. I used to laugh but these days they look mighty useful.
Tim
For the last year or so I've had to walk with a cane because my knees are bad and I'm not a good candidate for surgery. I'm concern that if I get the HD over too far I can't recover, but I guess on the other hand that would be true if my knees weren't bad. I'm not all that much of a 3-wheeler fan but rather than stop riding I might give it a try. A Can-Am might be a consideration too but a nice one is $30K.
Paul
You could get some training wheels. I think they call them landing gears now. Haven't seen them in operation but have heard they go down at low speed to keep you from tipping over. Kind of a laugh I guess but better than a tricycle. Everybody says when we get older we revert anyway so what the heck? Couldn't cost anywhere near that 30 large.
I sold my old iron head sportster and bought a KLR. For the kind of riding I do, I like it much better. And I can pick it up.
Jim
One of my hot rod buddies, in fact the one that bought my T-Bucket, has a KLR. Rode it once, fell off, but I like it too. He rides it three times as much as his BMW; actually rode it from Dallas to Big Bend and back a couple of years ago. I told him it wasn't such a great idea for a 68 year old bald headed guy but he did it anyway and survived.
Paul
It's a surprising bike. Long legs, a little heavy, not really big on horsepower, but for all that it goes well, is comfortable, pretty nimble, and handles any surface easily. I put the Michelin T63 knobbies on it and they are surprisingly good. Haven't been out on the freeway with it yet but it looks like it'll do just fine there too. I can see why the Army likes it. Hung my old leather saddlebags under the seat and for local errands it's just the thing. Plus it's fun to chase the dog around the yard with.
Jim
A while back I had some pretty pronounced Knobbles on a Yamaha CT-3. It made me a bit anxious crossing rail road tracks at an angle but for the most part did pretty well on the road. The most daring thing I think I ever did was ride a 650 Triumph Bonneville from Dallas to San Diego. I had to stop a number of times to heal up; today, I wouldn't even consider that on my Harley. Of course I wasn't 70 years old then either. That black bag on the back of my Harley is actually a soft "ugly Stick" tackle box I got as a gift when I bought a rod and reel from Bass Pro Shop.
Paul
Jim, the military KLR's are diesel.
DieselKLR.jpg
Right Phil, but I have heard they'll burn anything you care to put in the tank. (candle wax anyone?) Plus they get some outrageous mileage, something like 120 mpg or better depending on fuel. I have yet to burn the first tankful in mine.
The worst experience I ever had with Knobblies was riding across the Ohio on a cheese grater bridge with a big Mercedes right on my butt. No directional control at all. Worse than sand, I scootched up on the tank, ignored the back wheel and kept it slow, all the while with visions of that Mercedes shoving me through the decking, and it just went on forever. Never been so glad to get off a bridge in all my life. I'll do almost anything to avoid one of those again.
When I got out of the service I bought a 650 Norton Atlas in Vallejo, California and rode it up to Grand Forks, North Dakota, then south to Tulsa, and then on to Milton, W.Va. I'd say it was an epic journey but the word is overused these days. Took a month doing it, starting over the Sierra Nevadas in early March with better than 6 ft of snow on the ground. Most days I rode a couple hundred miles but did the Tulsa leg in two days through heavy rain. 500 miles a day through a cloud is quite an experience. Somehow I don't remember much about the final leg, where and if I stopped. It must have been pretty uneventful by that point. I do remember the guy who sold me the bike saying how he wished he could go along, just before grabbing a pair of heavy gauntlet gloves off the shelf and handing them to me. Don't think I'd have done too well without those.
Jim
Jim, the CA to W. VA run on a Norton sounds like quite an experience. I'm assuming that the Atlas didn't have a fairing or windshield....very few did in those days. Rode a lot of Brit bikes in the old days, Norton, BSA, Royal Enfield, Ariel and AJS.
Have had two Kawasaki Coucours sport tourers over the past 10 years but sold the last one last summer. Looking seriously at a KLR or vStrom. Did two Alaska ttrips on the last Concours (an 06) and one 900 mile day from Hyder, AK to Vancouver, BC...the last half in heavy rain and dark.
My son wants to do AK again (he now lives in Dawson Creek, start of the AK Hwy). If we do I'll ship my bike west, getting too old for the long days in the saddle!
Here's a pic of the long bridge across the Peace River near Fort St. John, BC with an open steel deck. Lot of fun, especially in the wet.
Hummmm...way off the topic of wheels for an MGB??
PeaceRiverBridge.jpg
I know, this is all my fault, but occasionally I like to talk motorcycles too. One of the guys in our group has a vStrom. I've never ridden it, but it's a really nice bike and does really well on the road. Besides, we've already worked out my wheel and tire issue. I've decided to order a RV8 hood from Bill too. I'm going to have to get to work on the little car, I've got a garage full of parts and toys still in boxes.
Paul
The bikes are a nice diversion but the real task is getting the MG back on the road, I can agree with that. Speaking of toys in boxes, I just ordered some megasquirt upgrade parts that may not get installed for awhile. Sometimes you just have to strike while the iron is hot.
Jim
How true! I've been fighting cancer and the effects of radiation for the last six months but I think I've got it beat and I'm starting to feel a bit better. Spring is here and it's time to start fabricating and bolting stuff together. I have to get going on my steering and radiator. There again, all the new parts are in the garage.
Paul
Gotta love motorcycles. I still ride 'em. Had my motorcycle license for 41 years.
Awesome trip, Jim. Speaking of epic motorcycle journeys...check this one out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85VErvTqgWc&feature=youtu.be
Definitely KLR roads on that trip. Fell down a couple times too I noticed.
Jim
I'm glad that falling down thing isn't just me :-) I got my motorcycle license when I was 16 in 1959, rode a lot of bikes and at one time or another I probably dropped every one of them.
Paul
When I raced motocross, if I didn't crash once in a while I figured I wasn't riding near hard enough.
When I went out trail riding with buddies we used to get pretty outrageous egging each other on. I mean we really overdid it, and it didn't stop until a couple of the guys got badly hurt. That put a real damper on things. I was probably the most cautious but even so I took some real chances and most weekends came home pretty badly beat up. I'd never have dreamed those bikes would go over some of the stuff that we just seemed to glide across once we got going. Of course, when I first started riding I accepted that if you ride you will fall down, no different from a bicycle that way, and it take some practice to learn how to deal with it. But that's no excuse for not taking precautions. I ride like everybody and everything is out to get me. Not timidly mind you, but definitely with caution.
I think I'd have to say that learning to drive an MGB followed a somewhat similar if more solo path. Pushing the machine to it's limits, improving those limits until they really surpassed what I could deal with and still have some level of safety (the vehicle's capabilities began to exceed my reaction time) and finally calming down a bit and just enjoying it instead of looking for an adrenaline rush. And the same cautious attitude. Some of you may question that ;-) and you know who you are, but it is true nonetheless.
Jim
I did a lot of trail riding in my 20's and 30's but have come to realize at 70 I'm not as bullet proof as I would like and healing time takes much, much, longer. I try to be as diligent as possible but a couple of years ago I was putting my Harley in the garage and the front wheel hit the edge of the driveway at an angle and down I went. My leg was caught under it, thankfully it wasn't hot yet. I had use my cell phone to call my son in the house to come get it off of me. Un-hurt, but my daughter read me the riot act about my second childhood or something like that; I have no idea what she means.
Paul
Beautiful day, 84 degrees. Should have been working on the MG. Took the missus for a putt on the Harley, instead. Totally aggravated my allergies, even though I was driving on Benadryl.
Hey, got to have your priorities, right?
Jim
Just got my baby out of the hospital (rear tire replacement) Harley's don't get all that many miles out of a Dunlap. Planned to take her out for a little exercise yesterday but the storms came rolling in and she said "NOT A CHANCE! if you want to act like a fool go ahead, but I'm not going out there" so, disappointed, I set back down at my workbench next to the GT, turned on the flat screen, lit up a $10 dollar cigar, and watched a Gene Autry movie. Supposed to storm again today; Oh well, UPS is bringing some more new parts for the GT, and I'm pretty sure I can find another movie.
Paul